Generally, no. Especially not American comics, since they bore the shit out of me. I've read some manga in the past, but very little of that as well. As a kid, I used to read Belgian and French comics, and I still enjoy those on occasion.
And by refusing to kill, he dooms many people, likely in the hundreds, possibly in the thousands, to death at the Joker's hands, mostly because his parents were killed. That seems like a dodgy get-out at the very least, and blatant cruelty otherwise. To allow thousands to die because you have moral quandaries about killing one individual, and you could even do so legally. It just seems wrong.DeimosMasque said:That's part of the drama and morality of the stories. Batman doesn't kill, he doesn't kill be cause he was created by the death of his parents. To him, what he strives for every day is a place were people don't get killed.Da Orky Man said:Fair enough. I suppose I never really got into a particular comic series, so I never got to the point where I could notice such arcing plots.
However, and I forgot to put this in my post, I do have more of a thing about a lot of superheroes having relatively little brain matter.
For example, Batman doesn't carry a gun, correct? Well, if he did and killed the Joker in 'self-defence' then he would potentially save hundreds of lives which would otherwise be lost. Someone who doesn't do that is kinda a dick.
And I remember one scene somewhere, may or may not be canon, where Superman crushes coal into diamonds. If he can do that, why not go a step further and create uranium from a few other elements? He could solve the energy crisis, yet doesn't.
Yes, killing the Joker is quick and expedient. The storyline called Hush even had him considering to just snap the Joker's neck and be done with it. But the moral dilemma, the morality of Batman's story is that when he kills Joker, he becomes no better than Joker and thus no longer has the moral high-ground to do what he does. Commissioner Gordon even tries to stop him, even after the Joker tried to kill him, crippled his daughter (Batgirl/Oracle) and DID kill his wife. It's then Batman truly realizes he's not above morality, even if the Joker ignores it.
Superman probably could solve all our problems for us in a week. But that doesn't do anything for humanity as a whole. In the story No Man's Land. Gotham is destroyed and declared a No Man's Land by the Federal Government, if you stay there... you're not in the US, expect no help. Superman shows up to help Batman. Fixes a power plant with the help of it's former head engineer and defeats Mr. Freeze. When he goes back to the engineer he's collecting tribute in exchange for giving people electricity. He realizes its something we have to fix, not have fixed for us.
Goes back to the idea of superhero stories as morality places and tragedies. Yeah a lot of it could be solved by killing villains, solving our problems for us and just lording over us as the best people on the planet. But they don't because they represent the best of us, even the alien Superman (who was raised by human parents.) They are the ones who remind us that we can be better than the crap we perpetuate. That's what makes them admirable heroes.
I've read the first trade...there were a couple of times I was like "huh?..no one acts like that" mainly when plutonian revealed himself to his girilfreind and then the people in the office find out and are liek OMG! HEY EVERYONE..it all happned so fast...Sixcess said:Irredeemable has its faults. It starts off brilliantly but later on it starts to slide a bit. Almost every issue ending on a dazzling cliffhanger but the resolution is never as good as the build up. Still a very good read though.
why would they? yould you rather run around fighting and doing work when you could be whoring and partying?CaptainMarvelous said:"So, why is he training them exactly? Have you guys ever seen these people use their powers? .
I missed this partCaptainMarvelous said:I I mean, going by Starlight, the implication is that everyone gets into superheroics to be a hero
See, I can get why the don't do heroic things, what I don't get is why no-one in the Boys universe for the last 60 years has pointed out that they don't do heroic things. I mean, asides from the Boys, we don't appear to have any detractors to the Super-hero overlords and that seems... unlikely. Are there no old man who can stop and say "Wait, the Homelander hasn't actually stopped a bank robbery at any point in his life, WHY are we worshipping the ground he walks on?" Aside from the 'cross-overs' at Herogasm, I don't see why the general public is A-OK with them doing sod all.Vault101 said:I missed this partCaptainMarvelous said:I I mean, going by Starlight, the implication is that everyone gets into superheroics to be a hero
thats the thing...I dont know if youve ead the whole thing but it makes sense when you find out how supes are actually created
lets just say no one is in it for the heroics
Lelouch united the planet, for all of ten seconds. Even if Suzaku carries on the Batman like legacy of striking terror into people and being on the run for the rest of his life with his (under a well worded Geass) manservant that's still just until HE dies and then... war again. Because I'm just a little TOO jaded to believe the world leaders all followed Nunnally loyally.Da Orky Man said:This one is less easy to put down on paper. Although yes, there are things suitable for solving ourselves, I'm not sure uranium is one of them. But then, as you said, Superman could solve practically every problem ever if he wanted to, he just doesn't.
Example: Lelouch vi Britannia. Now, Lelouch is a character in an Anime called Code Geass. His superpower, as it is, is a kind of mind-control, with limitations. Now, I'm not going into his specific drives and such, since it gets too complicated than I can bother to write. But, suffice to say, by the end he literally rules the world, after having killed the previous ruler and now controls the only equivalent to nukes in the setting. A month after this happens, he gets killed.
Afterwards, the whole series, him setting up the not-Rebel-Alliance, all his plans and motivations, get revealed to have been an intricate plan to get the entire world to hate him more than anyone else. Then, once he gets killed, the entire world is united due to their hatred for him. At the cost of his life, he united the planet.
That's a superhero worth reading about.
However, I know that there are possibly more comics than ears currently in existence, so if you know a series that is more suited to the darker, antihero-type character that can and will get people close to him to die, and quite possibly themselves, please mention it.
And I forgot to mention that I'm also reading V for Vendetta.
ah ok, that makes more senseCaptainMarvelous said:See, I can get why the don't do heroic things, what I don't get is why no-one in the Boys universe for the last 60 years has pointed out that they don't do heroic things. I mean, asides from the Boys, we don't appear to have any detractors to the Super-hero overlords and that seems... unlikely. Are there no old man who can stop and say "Wait, the Homelander hasn't actually stopped a bank robbery at any point in his life, WHY are we worshipping the ground he walks on?" Aside from the 'cross-overs' at Herogasm, I don't see why the general public is A-OK with them doing sod all.
As for the Black Noir question... yeah, considering Stormfront, I'm actually surprised they didn't just keep going with that solution "Old lady who swallowed a fly" style. I mean they tried to teach him how to fly a jet for cripes' sake, making terrible decisions seems to be Vought's M.O. See, everything they've ever made or done besides Compound V.
This was more or less what I was going to say and also add that Lelouch was also a story of dualities and moral qualms.CaptainMarvelous said:Lelouch united the planet, for all of ten seconds. Even if Suzaku carries on the Batman like legacy of striking terror into people and being on the run for the rest of his life with his (under a well worded Geass) manservant that's still just until HE dies and then... war again. Because I'm just a little TOO jaded to believe the world leaders all followed Nunnally loyally.Da Orky Man said:This one is less easy to put down on paper. Although yes, there are things suitable for solving ourselves, I'm not sure uranium is one of them. But then, as you said, Superman could solve practically every problem ever if he wanted to, he just doesn't.
Example: Lelouch vi Britannia. Now, Lelouch is a character in an Anime called Code Geass. His superpower, as it is, is a kind of mind-control, with limitations. Now, I'm not going into his specific drives and such, since it gets too complicated than I can bother to write. But, suffice to say, by the end he literally rules the world, after having killed the previous ruler and now controls the only equivalent to nukes in the setting. A month after this happens, he gets killed.
Afterwards, the whole series, him setting up the not-Rebel-Alliance, all his plans and motivations, get revealed to have been an intricate plan to get the entire world to hate him more than anyone else. Then, once he gets killed, the entire world is united due to their hatred for him. At the cost of his life, he united the planet.
That's a superhero worth reading about.
However, I know that there are possibly more comics than ears currently in existence, so if you know a series that is more suited to the darker, antihero-type character that can and will get people close to him to die, and quite possibly themselves, please mention it.
And I forgot to mention that I'm also reading V for Vendetta.
Though the series you're asking for is Hellblazer, one of the only comic books where the protagonist ages in real time and once got asked if a recently killed bystander was a friend of his and replied "Must have been, he's dead". It also makes no bones about the fact Constantine is never going to 'win', because it's a serial and he's fighting demons and devils and angels THEY can't be killed or 'lose' permanantly, he just gets a stay of execution each time.
Though the Batman/Joker thing is really a problem with the legal system more than a problem with Batman, he's handing a guy over to the cops to go to trial but they can't convict him? REALLY? Insane Asylum he breaks out of every week over execution?