Do you vote?

[jdun]

Well there's no concrete evidence of [Obama] being socialist but many of his spending policies are just so...welfare state-y.

Redistribution of wealth is especially moronic. He doesn't understand business very well which is what made America so rich in the first place. Socialist may not have been the word but if anything Obama is suitable as a "good times" president. Perfect for if much of America's problems were solved. He's not a problem solving president. My point is welfare state=bad. Just look at Greece.

Welfare state = bad? The UK, France, and Germany all have a form of welfare state that far outdoes anything the US has ever instituted. I can also point out that the UK has never had a truly socialist government. Labour may call itself socialist, but it has always been much closer to merely the far left of social democracy.

Greece is not a good example of anything, except skapegoats.

You will see how bad welfare states are soon enough when the Europeans goes 3rd world.

 

[jdun]

Yes, because in Australia it's required by law. During the last election, over-18 year olds risked a $200+ fine for not enrolling. I didn't enrol and didn't get any fine, but I then enrolled a few weeks later. Still have yet to wait for another election for my first voting experience.

That's pretty bad. Voting in Australia isn't a right it's mandatory slavery to the state.

 

[LadyDeadly]

Every time theres an election, i really really dont want to vote.I hate all the candidates usually so i end up voting for either
A.] who my mom votes for because arguing politics with her gets me grounded
B.] The green party , because they sometimes make sense.

 

[isometry]

Democracy is a bad form of government, because it always degenerates into plutocracy (rule by the rich). This was clear to Plato and Aristotle even though they lived before the invention of mass media, which has massively amplified the political influence of the rich.

The reason most people, even partially educated liberals like George Carlin and his audience, get it wrong is because they've been brainwashed by the idea that democracy is a good form of government. They think the problem is just with bad candidates that can be voted away, they don't realize that the problem is the voting itself and the fact that we let so many dumb people do it, and that those dumb people are too easily manipulated by the rich, so bad candidates are baked into democracy by design. You'll never have a chance to vote for a good candidate in a democracy.

 

[Greni]

You will see how bad welfare states are soon enough when the Europeans goes 3rd world.

The Europeans are broke. So broke that they will probably go 3rd world. That's what happen when no one produce wealth and everybody spending money like drunken sailors.

I'm afraid that you have a wild misconception about what a 3rd world country actually is.

Also talking about "Europeans" as an indistinct whole makes me giggle.

 

[Agayek]

I'm afraid that you have a wild misconception about what a 3rd world country actually is.

Also talking about "Europeans" as an indistinct whole makes me giggle.

While you are 100% correct in that that guy has absolutely no idea what actually being a 3rd world country actually entails, from everything I've heard he does seem to have some kind of point, insofar as most of Europe is broke. As is most of the rest of the world, for that matter. There are interesting times ahead, which will hopefully end for the better.

 

[triggrhappy94]

I'm Australian, I vote because I have too.

I think I hear a statistic somewhere that said that like 10% of you guys were showing up to vote drunk.

I was in a conversation with a classmate the other day who proudly proclaimed that they don't vote and have no intention of ever voting. I was kinda baffled by this so I asked why. Their response was something along the lines of "all my choices are shit, I'll vote when someone good comes along".

I sounds like he's saying "I'm stupid. I know I'm stupid. I don't trust my own ideas or my ability to follow news. If that ever chances, then I'll vote, but until then I will not."
It's very honest, and kind of the reason why the American framers established the electoral college (bigger-nerd mass correction sheild activate).

OT:
I'm turning 18 in september and our presidential election is in November. I'm kind of excited.

 

[Agayek]

I sounds like he's saying "I'm stupid. I know I'm stupid. I don't trust my own ideas or my ability to follow news. If that ever chances, then I'll vote, but until then I will not."
It's very honest, and kind of the reason why the American framers established the electoral college (bigger-nerd mass correction sheild activate).

Honestly, it's less an admission of stupidity and more "I don't agree with any of the candidates, so I'm not going to vote for them".

Also, the electoral college needlessly overcomplicates the election. All it does is give someone the opportunity to buy a win when they're losing the popular vote. We already have the popular vote anyway, there's no reason to add an electoral college on top of that.

 

[jdun]

You will see how bad welfare states are soon enough when the Europeans goes 3rd world.

The Europeans are broke. So broke that they will probably go 3rd world. That's what happen when no one produce wealth and everybody spending money like drunken sailors.

I'm afraid that you have a wild misconception about what a 3rd world country actually is.

Also talking about "Europeans" as an indistinct whole makes me giggle.

It funny to see Europeans on Escapist that think they are so smart yet they don't know a damn thing.

When Europeans BEGS DEVELOPING and POOR countries for MONEY, what that tell us? When all the major European corporation deals in US dollars and only used Euro when they have to, what that tell us all? When smart Europeans decided to exchange Euro for dollars and get their money out of Europe what that tell us all?

The Europeans are broke because of their welfare state. They now have to beg for money to paid for their debts. The problem is no one is lending them any more money. Without money no welfare. Without money there is no service. Without money Europeans will enter 3rd world status.

Don't pretend you know more then I do.

 

[jdun]

I'm afraid that you have a wild misconception about what a 3rd world country actually is.

Also talking about "Europeans" as an indistinct whole makes me giggle.

While you are 100% correct in that that guy has absolutely no idea what actually being a 3rd world country actually entails, from everything I've heard he does seem to have some kind of point, insofar as most of Europe is broke. As is most of the rest of the world, for that matter. There are interesting times ahead, which will hopefully end for the better.

hhaahah. The market told us that there is 100% that European countries will go bankrupted. The math don't lie. They can't paid of their debts because European countries do not produce or create wealth, just like third world countries.

Without money their will be no service. Without money their will be no welfare. Without money you have nothing. If you're European I recommend you to stack up on food, water, and ammo because when it happen it will be worst than the Zombie Apocalypse.

 

[jdun]

I don't particularly understand American politics.
Why have motivation to vote when the popular vote doesn't get the president elected?

I can answer this question, as I have started taking Government in my High-school schedule!
Okay, so here's how it goes down! The People of America vote for the people who vote for the President, so they vote to put people in whom they feel have their shared interests. These people are called "The electoral college" and they want to get re-elected, but these guys also want to have their opinion out there. So when election comes up, and everyone votes except for the Electoral guys, they see who has the most popular vote. If their views clash with the popular vote, they risk not being re-elected buy voting for someone else.

In the end, it's all very dramatic, and a lot of harsh words are probably said. I think it sounds like a good system.

In order to understand the electoral college you need to understand the USA and how it was created. You have to understand that the USA is a Republic.

The USA is made up of 50 countries and a handful of colonies. Each states has it own laws and constitution. The Federal government was created to ensure fairness and the protection of the states that is in the UNION.

It is correct that the popular vote don't count. There is no single elected person that represent the entire US people. That's included the President of the USA.

Congressman represent their district in the federal government. They do not represent other districts in the USA.

Before the 17th amendment Senators are picked by State governments to represent their state in the Federal government. The 17th amendment made it by popular vote which I think was a big mistake. However it still doesn't change the fact that Senators only represent their state and not other states in the UNION.

The President is not elected by popular vote. The President is ELECTED BY THE STATES THAT IS IN THE UNION. The real vote comes after the popular vote. The STATES VOTES FOR THE NEXT PRESIDENT AND NOT THE PEOPLE.

Why? Because the USA IS MADE UP OF 50 NATIONS and the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REPRESENT THOSE 50 STATES AND NOT THE PEOPLE IN THOSE STATES. That's why the electoral college was formed. The USA isn't one nation it is made up of 50 nations and a handful of colonies.

 

[jdun]

I sounds like he's saying "I'm stupid. I know I'm stupid. I don't trust my own ideas or my ability to follow news. If that ever chances, then I'll vote, but until then I will not."
It's very honest, and kind of the reason why the American framers established the electoral college (bigger-nerd mass correction sheild activate).

Honestly, it's less an admission of stupidity and more "I don't agree with any of the candidates, so I'm not going to vote for them".

Also, the electoral college needlessly overcomplicates the election. All it does is give someone the opportunity to buy a win when they're losing the popular vote. We already have the popular vote anyway, there's no reason to add an electoral college on top of that.

The electoral college isn't complicated. In fact it pretty simple. To understand US politics you need to understand the beginning. Read the above post from this one to find out.

With that said you are right that no elected official represent the US people as a whole. It wasn't design to.

 

[Greni]

You will see how bad welfare states are soon enough when the Europeans goes 3rd world.

The Europeans are broke. So broke that they will probably go 3rd world. That's what happen when no one produce wealth and everybody spending money like drunken sailors.

I'm afraid that you have a wild misconception about what a 3rd world country actually is.

Also talking about "Europeans" as an indistinct whole makes me giggle.

It funny to see Europeans on Escapist that think they are so smart yet they don't know a damn thing.

When Europeans BEGS DEVELOPING and POOR countries for MONEY, what that tell us? When all the major European corporation deals in US dollars and only used Euro when they have to, what that tell us all? When smart Europeans decided to exchange Euro for dollars and get their money out of Europe what that tell us all?

The Europeans are broke because of their welfare state. They now have to beg for money to paid for their debts. The problem is no one is lending them any more money. Without money no welfare. Without money there is no service. Without money Europeans will enter 3rd world status.

Don't pretend you know more then I do.

Well that was a FABULOUS rant ol' chap, but I'm AFRAID that you are MISTAKEN on a few things in your POST I am quoting. Now I'll stop making fun of you randomly writing in all caps.

It funny to see Europeans on Escapist that think they are so smart yet they don't know a damn thing.

I'm not sure how to respond to that, or how that is even relevant. All I can say is "okay, I haven't noticed". Moving on.

When Europeans BEGS DEVELOPING and POOR countries for MONEY, what that tell us? When all the major European corporation deals in US dollars and only used Euro when they have to, what that tell us all? When smart Europeans decided to exchange Euro for dollars and get their money out of Europe what that tell us all?

A really poor way of making a point is bombarding facts without citing any sources. Which 'Europeans' (Countries? Companies? Individuals?) are begging which poor and developing countries for money? Which corporations only deal in the euro when they have to and in US currency otherwise? (And as a site-note: Not all European countries use the euro, Wikipedia has a good article)

The Europeans are broke because of their welfare state. They now have to beg for money to paid for their debts. The problem is no one is lending them any more money. Without money no welfare. Without money there is no service. Without money Europeans will enter 3rd world status.

Now to tell you straight up, I'm from Iceland. We don't use the euro. We were hit early and hard by the financial crisis but the fact that we are a welfare state, and a pretty rigorous at that, had absolutely nothing to do with our crash. The main reason was foreign expansion by companies and (mainly) banking branches to (again mainly) Britain and the Netherlands but not enough money to back it all up. Furthermore during investigation on the matter there were quite a lot of lobbying fat cats revealed to be getting rather greedy in our times of luxury. Evading tax and using all the tricks to basically get richer by dirty means.

And to tell you the truth, we seem to be recovering rather quickly. We evaded going on the European Union yacht when it seemed reasonable and sure enough that turned out to be little more than painted cardboard and started to sink.

I can't obviously tell you how our neighbours are doing firsthand but from where I'm sitting it seems to be nowhere near as drastic as you might think. Now get off your USAmerican high horse, as it seems to be shrinking with every year, (glass houses and all that) and join us in reality. It's actually quite nice.

 

[jdun]

You will see how bad welfare states are soon enough when the Europeans goes 3rd world.

The Europeans are broke. So broke that they will probably go 3rd world. That's what happen when no one produce wealth and everybody spending money like drunken sailors.

I'm afraid that you have a wild misconception about what a 3rd world country actually is.

Also talking about "Europeans" as an indistinct whole makes me giggle.

It funny to see Europeans on Escapist that think they are so smart yet they don't know a damn thing.

When Europeans BEGS DEVELOPING and POOR countries for MONEY, what that tell us? When all the major European corporation deals in US dollars and only used Euro when they have to, what that tell us all? When smart Europeans decided to exchange Euro for dollars and get their money out of Europe what that tell us all?

The Europeans are broke because of their welfare state. They now have to beg for money to paid for their debts. The problem is no one is lending them any more money. Without money no welfare. Without money there is no service. Without money Europeans will enter 3rd world status.

Don't pretend you know more then I do.

Well that was a FABULOUS rant ol' chap, but I'm AFRAID that you are MISTAKEN on a few things in your POST I am quoting. Now I'll stop making fun of you randomly writing in all caps.

It funny to see Europeans on Escapist that think they are so smart yet they don't know a damn thing.

I'm not sure how to respond to that, or how that is even relevant. All I can say is "okay, I haven't noticed". Moving on.

When Europeans BEGS DEVELOPING and POOR countries for MONEY, what that tell us? When all the major European corporation deals in US dollars and only used Euro when they have to, what that tell us all? When smart Europeans decided to exchange Euro for dollars and get their money out of Europe what that tell us all?

A really poor way of making a point is bombarding facts without citing any sources. Which 'Europeans' (Countries? Companies? Individuals?) are begging which poor and developing countries for money? Which corporations only deal in the euro when they have to and in US currency otherwise? (And as a site-note: Not all European countries use the euro, Wikipedia has a good article)

The Europeans are broke because of their welfare state. They now have to beg for money to paid for their debts. The problem is no one is lending them any more money. Without money no welfare. Without money there is no service. Without money Europeans will enter 3rd world status.

Now to tell you straight up, I'm from Iceland. We don't use the euro. We were hit early and hard by the financial crisis but the fact that we are a welfare state, and a pretty rigorous at that, had absolutely nothing to do with our crash. The main reason was foreign expansion by companies and (mainly) banking branches to (again mainly) Britain and the Netherlands but not enough money to back it all up. Furthermore during investigation on the matter there were quite a lot of lobbying fat cats revealed to be getting rather greedy in our times of luxury. Evading tax and using all the tricks to basically get richer by dirty means.

And to tell you the truth, we seem to be recovering rather quickly. We evaded going on the European Union yacht when it seemed reasonable and sure enough that turned out to be little more than painted cardboard and started to sink.

I can't obviously tell you how our neighbours are doing firsthand but from where I'm sitting it seems to be nowhere near as drastic as you might think. Now get off your USAmerican high horse, as it seems to be shrinking with every year, (glass houses and all that) and join us in reality. It's actually quite nice.

You're from Iceland you guys already went bankrupted. You guys are lucky that your country went bankrupted first. At least you had a head start. With that said once the rest of Europe go down the drain, Iceland won't be a cheap vacation spot anymore and your recovery will die along with it.

Your foreign expansion was to support your welfare state, right? The banks needed more returns because the government needed more money to support the welfare state.

 

[DustyDrB]

Why would I?

My choices are.

1: Lying scumbag politician

2: Lying scumbag politician

3: Lying scumbag politician

Hmm, decisions, decisions...

That's pretty much how I feel. I have voted, but then I saw the candidate I chose do much of the opposite. If they are just going to lie anyway, why even spend the time on them?

I do vote on actual issues when given the chance, but the politicians themselves are just too nebulous in their stances. Unless there is an actual issue to vote on that I care about, I'll go spend my time trying to make a difference in a more sure way than by putting my faith in a man (or woman).

 

[Greni]

You will see how bad welfare states are soon enough when the Europeans goes 3rd world.

The Europeans are broke. So broke that they will probably go 3rd world. That's what happen when no one produce wealth and everybody spending money like drunken sailors.

I'm afraid that you have a wild misconception about what a 3rd world country actually is.

Also talking about "Europeans" as an indistinct whole makes me giggle.

It funny to see Europeans on Escapist that think they are so smart yet they don't know a damn thing.

When Europeans BEGS DEVELOPING and POOR countries for MONEY, what that tell us? When all the major European corporation deals in US dollars and only used Euro when they have to, what that tell us all? When smart Europeans decided to exchange Euro for dollars and get their money out of Europe what that tell us all?

The Europeans are broke because of their welfare state. They now have to beg for money to paid for their debts. The problem is no one is lending them any more money. Without money no welfare. Without money there is no service. Without money Europeans will enter 3rd world status.

Don't pretend you know more then I do.

Well that was a FABULOUS rant ol' chap, but I'm AFRAID that you are MISTAKEN on a few things in your POST I am quoting. Now I'll stop making fun of you randomly writing in all caps.

It funny to see Europeans on Escapist that think they are so smart yet they don't know a damn thing.

I'm not sure how to respond to that, or how that is even relevant. All I can say is "okay, I haven't noticed". Moving on.

When Europeans BEGS DEVELOPING and POOR countries for MONEY, what that tell us? When all the major European corporation deals in US dollars and only used Euro when they have to, what that tell us all? When smart Europeans decided to exchange Euro for dollars and get their money out of Europe what that tell us all?

A really poor way of making a point is bombarding facts without citing any sources. Which 'Europeans' (Countries? Companies? Individuals?) are begging which poor and developing countries for money? Which corporations only deal in the euro when they have to and in US currency otherwise? (And as a site-note: Not all European countries use the euro, Wikipedia has a good article)

The Europeans are broke because of their welfare state. They now have to beg for money to paid for their debts. The problem is no one is lending them any more money. Without money no welfare. Without money there is no service. Without money Europeans will enter 3rd world status.

Now to tell you straight up, I'm from Iceland. We don't use the euro. We were hit early and hard by the financial crisis but the fact that we are a welfare state, and a pretty rigorous at that, had absolutely nothing to do with our crash. The main reason was foreign expansion by companies and (mainly) banking branches to (again mainly) Britain and the Netherlands but not enough money to back it all up. Furthermore during investigation on the matter there were quite a lot of lobbying fat cats revealed to be getting rather greedy in our times of luxury. Evading tax and using all the tricks to basically get richer by dirty means.

And to tell you the truth, we seem to be recovering rather quickly. We evaded going on the European Union yacht when it seemed reasonable and sure enough that turned out to be little more than painted cardboard and started to sink.

I can't obviously tell you how our neighbours are doing firsthand but from where I'm sitting it seems to be nowhere near as drastic as you might think. Now get off your USAmerican high horse, as it seems to be shrinking with every year, (glass houses and all that) and join us in reality. It's actually quite nice.

You're from Iceland you guys already went bankrupted. You guys are lucky that your country went bankrupted first. At least you had a head start. With that said once the rest of Europe go down the drain, Iceland won't be a cheap vacation spot anymore and your recovery will die along with it.

Your foreign expansion was to support your welfare state, right? The banks needed more returns because the government needed more money to support the welfare state.

That first part just shows complete ignorance towards how countries operate on a financial level. I'm no expert but damn!

No, the expansion was just greed. Hasty decisions made by greedy people in a time of good fortune.

I'm done. You aren't arguing, at least on a civil level. It's like talking to a wall that occasionally talks back.

 

[RussetRanger]

To the Americans continually stating that you have no right to complain if you didn't vote: please, stop.

Someone posted the Carlin video, but apparently half of you haven't watched it.
If you don't vote, you can't complain? What kind of fucked up logic is that? How does that follow?

If you vote, YOU can't complain, because you entered into an agreement to abide by the majority choice. Complaining seems hypocritical in that case.

If you don't vote, it's likely because you realize that voting is about as useful as clipping your fingernails in determining the direction this country goes.

YES! YES! YES! YES!

Someone really needed to bring that up.


Anyways, I have to vote as well ........ so there's the answer. I would not if I did not have to, as I reject politics on religious grounds. Plus my country's politics are embarassing.

 

[Gerishnakov]

no elected official represent the US people as a whole. It wasn't design to.

I'm fairly sure that's part of what the president, and only the president, is for.

 

[ChildishLegacy]

Amazes me how many people on here don't vote, I would have thought it would be a minority on here, seeing as how... passionate some people on this forum get in their politics.

I'm 17 so haven't had the chance to vote yet, but I will be doing in the next general election because I feel that I'd feel silly whining about a government that I had the chance to vote against. Also our current government tripled our university fees, my educational year being the first one to have these £9k a year fees, which is something completely unjustified, and I feel like I should be voting against this stuff when I get the chance (not that the tories would have ever had my vote in the first place).

The "I'm not interested in politics" argument I've never understood either, your elected government can subtly change a lot of things in your life (even if you don't realize it, or who's making the change), and I tend to be interested in my own life and what might affect it, believe it or not.

 

[RussetRanger]

Amazes me how many people on here don't vote, I would have thought it would be a minority on here, seeing as how... passionate some people on this forum get in their politics.

Maybe they just migrated to this topic in droves. Ergo, they are concentrated around this nape of the woods.