DOAX3 officially not being localized for the west

[dyre]

The more I think about this, the stranger it seems. Why cut off the game from the biggest audience? Is it really a localization issue, when there's english subtitles already in place? Is it the sheer cost of providing physical copies, to a region where it sells more than it does within Asia? This just doesn't make sense to me.

A lot of Japanese publishers seem to simply not care about their export sales for some reason. In fact, a lot of business practices from Japanese publishers seem downright alien to me. I'm no industry expert, but I am a finance guy who's done case studies on companies like EA and Activision. I strongly suspect that the half-assed way that Japanese publishers approach localization is due to cultural inertia (i.e., the company has "always done it this way" and therefore will continue doing it that way).

In this particular case, I'd have to speculate that the Japanese don't have a firm grasp on what's going on in the U.S. - just like American companies struggle to understand international markets - and are making decisions based on partial information. They probably figure there's a lot of mob outrage going on in America, and there's this ongoing controversy involving women or boobs or something, and one of my drinking buddies who works in Atlus mentioned there was some shitstorm involving a character in Dragon's Crown having big boobs...you know what? DOA isn't the most important part of our portfolio, so let's just hold off on localizing this one so we don't accidentally stir the hornet's nest. Who knows what those crazy Americans are thinking...

On a positive note, I highly doubt this is part of a larger plan to restrict localizations for "controversial" games. They probably just made this decision thinking that it's better to wait things out until the whole gamergate/SJW thing has died down in the U.S.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

While I absolutely detest the absurd over-reactions against any form of sexualisation, I don't see why we're supposed to see the developer as a victim here. If a significant market for this game does exist then I think they ought to receive the scorn themselves for being so cowardly.
What are these feminists going to do anyway? Complain about it on Twitter? They aren't the audience anyway, so I don't see how their opinions are going to stop people from buying the game. It's filled with blatant fan-service and sexualisation, so there's very little overlap between the kinds of people who would buy this game and the kinds of people who would be offended by sexualistion and swayed against a game because of it.

 

[Denamic]

a bunch of countries in Europe like Sweden that don't officially speak English but everyone learns it anyway.

No, we officially speak English since it's a mandatory subject in school.

 

[Paragon Fury]

While I absolutely detest the absurd over-reactions against any form of sexualisation, I don't see why we're supposed to see the developer as a victim here. If a significant market for this game does exist then I think they ought to receive the scorn themselves for being so cowardly.
What are these feminists going to do anyway? Complain about it on Twitter? They aren't the audience anyway, so I don't see how their opinions are going to stop people from buying the game. It's filled with blatant fan-service and sexualisation, so there's very little overlap between the kinds of people who would buy this game and the kinds of people who would be offended by sexualistion and swayed against a game because of it.

You're forgetting the new MO for SJWs and whatever-the-fuck-wave feminism we're on now is to actively seek out and involve themselves in things to be offended by. They might ignore little things like Senran Kagura since that is mostly a handheld series and made by some no-name developer; but Team Ninja and Koei Tecmo? Releasing a AAA game like this?

Prime target.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

While I absolutely detest the absurd over-reactions against any form of sexualisation, I don't see why we're supposed to see the developer as a victim here. If a significant market for this game does exist then I think they ought to receive the scorn themselves for being so cowardly.
What are these feminists going to do anyway? Complain about it on Twitter? They aren't the audience anyway, so I don't see how their opinions are going to stop people from buying the game. It's filled with blatant fan-service and sexualisation, so there's very little overlap between the kinds of people who would buy this game and the kinds of people who would be offended by sexualistion and swayed against a game because of it.

You're forgetting the new MO for SJWs and whatever-the-fuck-wave feminism we're on now is to actively seek out and involve themselves in things to be offended by. They might ignore little things like Senran Kagura since that is mostly a handheld series and made by some no-name developer; but Team Ninja and Koei Tecmo? Releasing a AAA game like this?

Prime target.

I'm aware of this, but a prime target for what exactly? What could they even do to convince the potential buyers of a highly sexualised, fan-service laden game that they shouldn't buy it? What exactly could they do other than shout about it on the internet? I guess some of the journalists could pan the game for such political reasons, but is that really going to have much effect on the sales of what is, to be honest, a rather niche game?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

From another thread: Not surprised. I wouldn't want to release a game to be compared to the scum of the Earth either. Well, actually, I personally wouldn't care, but I don't have a bunch of workers to get threats and hate either.

Now with an added: There's a serious urgency from some people in trying to discredit the company's statement. It's kinda silly.

 

[Fox12]

Oh no, whatever will we do?

2) Image is everything, and releasing the game might not impact sales, but can stain the company's name to make lasting damage by people who'll never buy game (or don't ever buy games).

Anyway, here's a win for "no speech" movement, because less games is better for gaming, right?

Hasn't their image always consisted of a bunch of creepy Japanese guys who make breast physics games, though? I mean, It's not Studio Ghibli releasing this game. Even their fans acknowledge this. Japanese gonna Japanese. There are plenty more weird Japanese titles where that came from, go play one of them.

Don't really get the whole "no speech" thing either. Is there actually a group called that, or is this just part of the censorship scare everyone's blowing out of proportion? Because criticism isn't censorship. Honestly, it's like abortion people calling their enemies anti-choice/anti-life. It's a little bit silly, just call them by their names.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

They are making an English-subtitles version for Asia and ps4/vita are Region Free so you can just import and get your beach on.

http://www.play-asia.com/dead-or-alive-xtreme-3-fortune-multi-language/13/709dv7

Sounds to me like a company deciding that the US market for the game is too small to make the localization profitable.

But there's like 300 million people in the USA, compared to just 130 million or so in Japan. And then there's the other English speaking countries, along with a bunch of countries in Europe like Sweden that don't officially speak English but everyone learns it anyway. And it's a lot cheaper to localize than it would have been to make the original game.

Don't forget that Sweden is the one country in the entire planet which outright banned a dead or alive game in the past (one for 3DS I believe) so it's not the best of examples.


This game has already partially-done localization so the extra money would most definitely be worth it since the sales in the west would even it out and then give extra too. This being so, fear of backlash is about the only logical explanation left, since they're already making the English subs for the Asian version and most people would be fine with JP-only voices anyhow.

 

[Zhukov]

1) If that's true then we don't need any opinion about having more females/minorities in gaming, since "free market", they don't exist because there's no demand.

Yeah, pretty much.

The people asking for more female/minorities/whatever are expressing demand. That's... kind of what a demand is. However there either aren't enough of them or publishers don't think their demands carry enough weight to bother catering to them.

However, I'd say the message is slowly seeping through. Remember when characters like Alyx Vance and The Boss were considered super great rare examples of females who got to do stuff and weren't just there to get the nerds all sweaty? Compare to now when that is becoming much more common, if not the norm.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I have to apologize. I forgot that Hanlon's Razor is just as valid when it comes to corporations: sometimes they will make plainly stupid decisions or decisions based on strange reasoning.

Unless the new game is significantly more "offensive" then the previous ones, I just do not see how any possible backlash would have a great effect on sales. The game's audience just does not seem like it would care.

In a newer scan they revealed their new feature; bathing suit malfunctions. It may actually be significantly better (I refuse to use "offensive" for human body parts) than the older games. Hell I never played the older games, wasn't there a stripping pole event in one or something?

 

[Something Amyss]

A company that's been localising less of their games is not localising a game? Surely, this is no real surprise and doesn't need anyone to grope for excuses.

 

[Lightspeaker]

I have to say I'm rather amused by all the people going "No, really, the company isn't not releasing it for the reason they explicitly stated, instead its for this whole other reason that I made up just now. Because clearly they can't be concerned about the inevitable public backlash in light of similar backlashes against games such as Dragon's Crown in recent years. It must be some other reason like low sales projections, even though I have zero proof and the only evidence available is the word of the company itself stating the exact opposite."

Apparently they must be outright lying about their reasons for not releasing it. In such a way as to make people angry at them (because its a rather damning allegation to make a claim like that and liable to make a lot of people annoyed). Because...reasons I guess. Seriously, assuming those statements DO come from the Publisher or Developer in question why would they bother to just "make up" something like that? When they could just say they're not looking to localise it and then go quiet about the reasons?


Incidentally, Play-Asia has decided to stir up this hornet's nest a bit:
https://twitter.com/playasia/status/669343456423100416

Replies to the tweet are full of people massively outraged that Play-Asia is apparently taking the company at their word for the reason it won't be released in the West.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

I will be perfectly honest here ifPlayasia sets a VERY bad example and cause an ip lock on certain games so it is as difficult as it get to buy from them. Illusion and Alicesoft did this to keep the foreigners from taking notice

 

[Redd the Sock]

I have to say I'm rather amused by all the people going "No, really, the company isn't not releasing it for the reason they explicitly stated, instead its for this whole other reason that I made up just now. Because clearly they can't be concerned about the inevitable public backlash in light of similar backlashes against games such as Dragon's Crown in recent years. It must be some other reason like low sales projections, even though I have zero proof and the only evidence available is the word of the company itself stating the exact opposite."

Apparently they must be outright lying about their reasons for not releasing it. In such a way as to make people angry at them (because its a rather damning allegation to make a claim like that and liable to make a lot of people annoyed). Because...reasons I guess. Seriously, assuming those statements DO come from the Publisher or Developer in question why would they bother to just "make up" something like that? When they could just say they're not looking to localise it and then go quiet about the reasons?


Incidentally, Play-Asia has decided to stir up this hornet's nest a bit:
https://twitter.com/playasia/status/669343456423100416

Replies to the tweet are full of people massively outraged that Play-Asia is apparently taking the company at their word for the reason it won't be released in the West.

I get a laugh at the people saying they'll shop elsewhere now. Play Asia sells 18+ idol books, boobie mouse pads, and even some porn, and now they want to run elsewhere because of offensive material? Hell, the page for DOAX3 has been up at least a month.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

A company that's been localising less of their games is not localising a game? Surely, this is no real surprise and doesn't need anyone to grope for excuses.

What games are you refering to?

They have localized a ton of games and I can't recall any notable ones they've not localized in the recent past.

There's like 3-4 Atelier series games, Ar Nosurge, Toukiden: Kiwami, and I think 3 Dynasty warriors titles, just to name a few, all released in the last couple of years.

 

[NiPah]

For the record its not as simple as total sales. Localization is basically paying publishing costs all over again, sometimes atop of additional costs as well, while also turning a smaller profit from each sale. Also being a blatantly sexual game means its difficult to stock in stores. Dark Souls is easy to sell in Wal-Mart, Boob-Jiggling Simulator 2016 isn't. Societal double-standards, yes, but I'm just pointing it out for what it is. Its harder to market for, harder to stock and its less profitable. Its surprisingly easy for a localization to make little profit. But little profit is better than no profit, right? Not always, usually with taxes involved. Then there's the matter of explaining this marginal investment to investors. On top of that sometimes its simply more profitable to move the money you spend localizing and dump it into another project that may give it more proportionate yields.

Doesn't really hold water when they're releasing a physical collector's edition of Atelier Escha & Logy exclusive to the NIS America store, a completely different SKU which will never be released in a physical store and it's a Vita title. This isn't a one off either, KOEI TECMO games has released 2 other niche titles (Atelier Shallie and Ar nosurge Plus) this year alone, these are remakes of extremely niche games on the Vita and they're willing to put out boxed collectors editions.

I mean if they're putting the money into localizing Samurai Warriors 4-II (and yes, also with a store exclusive collector's edition) then there's another reason they're not releasing the third title in an established franchise which is an offshoot of their best selling franchise.

 

[Paragon Fury]

For the record its not as simple as total sales. Localization is basically paying publishing costs all over again, sometimes atop of additional costs as well, while also turning a smaller profit from each sale. Also being a blatantly sexual game means its difficult to stock in stores. Dark Souls is easy to sell in Wal-Mart, Boob-Jiggling Simulator 2016 isn't. Societal double-standards, yes, but I'm just pointing it out for what it is. Its harder to market for, harder to stock and its less profitable. Its surprisingly easy for a localization to make little profit. But little profit is better than no profit, right? Not always, usually with taxes involved. Then there's the matter of explaining this marginal investment to investors. On top of that sometimes its simply more profitable to move the money you spend localizing and dump it into another project that may give it more proportionate yields.

Doesn't really hold water when they're releasing a physical collector's edition of Atelier Escha & Logy exclusive to the NIS America store, a completely different SKU which will never be released in a physical store and it's a Vita title. This isn't a one off either, KOEI TECMO games has released 2 other niche titles (Atelier Shallie and Ar nosurge Plus) this year alone, these are remakes of extremely niche games on the Vita and they're willing to put out boxed collectors editions.

I mean if they're putting the money into localizing Samurai Warriors 4-II (and yes, also with a store exclusive collector's edition) then there's another reason they're not releasing the third title in an established franchise which is an offshoot of their best selling franchise.

That series also, as noted, sells far better in the United States than it does in Japan.

TN and KT could literally just say "Fuck it" to the Japanese edition and just make a Western version and they'd still make money.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

For the record its not as simple as total sales. Localization is basically paying publishing costs all over again, sometimes atop of additional costs as well, while also turning a smaller profit from each sale. Also being a blatantly sexual game means its difficult to stock in stores. Dark Souls is easy to sell in Wal-Mart, Boob-Jiggling Simulator 2016 isn't. Societal double-standards, yes, but I'm just pointing it out for what it is. Its harder to market for, harder to stock and its less profitable. Its surprisingly easy for a localization to make little profit. But little profit is better than no profit, right? Not always, usually with taxes involved. Then there's the matter of explaining this marginal investment to investors. On top of that sometimes its simply more profitable to move the money you spend localizing and dump it into another project that may give it more proportionate yields.

Doesn't really hold water when they're releasing a physical collector's edition of Atelier Escha & Logy exclusive to the NIS America store, a completely different SKU which will never be released in a physical store and it's a Vita title. This isn't a one off either, KOEI TECMO games has released 2 other niche titles (Atelier Shallie and Ar nosurge Plus) this year alone, these are remakes of extremely niche games on the Vita and they're willing to put out boxed collectors editions.

I mean if they're putting the money into localizing Samurai Warriors 4-II (and yes, also with a store exclusive collector's edition) then there's another reason they're not releasing the third title in an established franchise which is an offshoot of their best selling franchise.

That series also, as noted, sells far better in the United States than it does in Japan.

TN and KT could literally just say "Fuck it" to the Japanese edition and just make a Western version and they'd still make money.

And maybe throw a couple of topless nudity since the west is doing and people have been looking for official nudity

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I will be perfectly honest here ifPlayasia sets a VERY bad example and cause an ip lock on certain games so it is as difficult as it get to buy from them. Illusion and Alicesoft did this to keep the foreigners from taking notice

They have literally no reason to do this, they don't stand to lose money like Illusion did. If anything, the Koei twitter literally points people at playasia so they can import the game. Also, note that playasia doesn't MAKE the games and they're located in Hong Kong. They just are a site that sells imports to people. They have no method of locking the IP of anything.

 

[Leoofmoon]

Sounds to me like a company deciding that the US market for the game is too small to make the localization profitable. Then someone makes a BS excuse so the fans are upset at someone else.

Hmmm... What evidence do you have of this?

OT: This is pretty troubling. Hopefully this doesn't become a trend or anything. Not that I was planning on buying the game myself, I'm sure other people in this region of the world would have liked to buy it.

Too late. There are people who will yell at anything they dislike even if they would never buy it anyway.