DOAX3 officially not being localized for the west

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I think the fact that this thread has been full of people saying "this is terrible, damn those SJWS" and barely anyone saying "this is terrible, I really wanted to play this" might say something about why this isn't getting localised.

I hadn't even heard that this game was being made until now and this now people are talking about... and of course if they now change their mind and localise the game down the line they can probably get a lot of the "screw the SJWs" dollars that games like "Hatred" managed to rake in. The alternative to making an engaging game is to wrap a dull game up in an engaging controversy.

Having said that maybe I'm overestimated the subtle intelligence of a group of people capable of making the first few Dead of Alive Beach Volleyball games.

I was with you until the last part... Seems needlessly arsey.

It's a niche game to start with, even in Japan really. According to: http://www.vgchartz.com/game/482/dead-or-alive-xtreme-beach-volleyball/ http://www.vgchartz.com/game/481/dead-or-alive-xtreme-2/ North America is actually where they got the most sales on the predecessors.

Seems like NA is actually the key territory, so maybe their reluctance is due to social pressure and fear of their brand-name being forever associated with the accusations levied at them by Western media.

I the fact that they get more sales in NA brought out as an excuse that the game will sell in NA, but I don't know if that is the case. You have to keep in mind NA is much much bigger then japan. Any game would sell more units in NA, but your capturing a much much smaller % then it looks. Though the real bugbear is distribution. Because NA is so big, the cost to get the game in stores is a lot higher. The density might not be enough. (Then you know localization is a thing.)

They could just release it digital-only if the distribution really is such an issue, then.


Honestly, I find this reason quite ridiculous if you wish to justify not bringing the game over at all with it.

If they have that infrastructure, then ya they can do that. I kind of wonder why that isn't more of an option with Japanese games. I mean there are a lot of games that they aren't shipping here not simply one.

There need not be a special infrastructure. The game is on ps4/vita. PSN already exists. Almost every game that is released is released digitally on psn as well as in stores nowadays.

In the past they DID release some psn digital only games, in fact. (the Atelier plus remakes) So if they wished they certainly could do it here too.

 

[hentropy]

It's the precedent it sets. Censorship is insidious like that. First they come for the boobs and ass simulator and nobody gives a damn but by the time things "mainstream westerners" tend to like are getting disallowed it'd be already too late. You can't say "this one thing, this one is just vile enough that it's ok to censor it" because who is to say what is "vile enough". You may draw the line at this game but someone could draw it at something like GTA, someone could draw it at God of War. The only 100% surefire way to ensure that we can keep having the games we actually like is not allowing anything to be censored.

"Censorship" of that kind happens all the time, however, especially with content from Japan. A manga called Kodomo no Jikan was planned for localization, and shouted down by groups in the US because the main child character takes a bath with her uncle, something not unheard of outside the US. Nobody cared about that censorship or the precedent it set, they only care when there's SJWs involved.

Right there, just now, I lied to you. In fact it was opposed for its over-the-top and rather persistent and pedophilic themes, but it's an example of the way these things can be framed to manipulate people's emotions. Still, the point still mostly stands, first they come for the softcore pedo stuff, then for the grown up T&A, then we're gassing Jews for microaggressions. Slippery slope!

The fact is that no one is entitled to these things, the developer made a conscious decision not to release it in the west for what is probably a litany of reasons (anyone who honestly think business decisions like this are made on any one reason is a tool), it does not constitute insidious censorship, regardless of where the line for "acceptable content" is drawn.

 

[SquallTheBlade]

I cannot think of a single instance wherein the localisation of a Japanese game improved the product for the consumer purchasing it. The vast majority of titles would've been objectively better gaming experiences had the unaltered game been available to purchase from Japan, but with English menus, interfaces and subtitles included for non-Japanese consumers who wanted the authentic experience.

What about games like Phoenix Wright? That's a series with an excellent english release localization team behind most of its releases.

(Still waiting for Edgeworth Investigations 2 AAAARGH)

Without localization there'd be a ton of weird Japanese cultural references that would go over many persons heads (especially younger teens), and the series wouldn't have the excellent reputation it has for humor and compelling storytelling if the text was just google-translated subtitles.

Just do it like Steins;Gate did. Once the text references something, you can open a sub-menu with an explanation of the word or phrase so everyone can understand it. I liked it in steins;Gate and would like to see it in other games/VNs too.

I can understand why some folks would like an authentic experience too, but I don't think it's correct to broadly say non-localization results in objectively better games. Not everyone wants that Authentic Made In Japan experience. Many people want the language to be in properly written english text, edited for a westernized context, with english voice acting.

If I didn't want an authentic japanese experience, I wouldn't buy a japanese game. When I'm playing a game from japan, I want everything it had in as authentic as possible but with a language I can understand. That's what translation should be like.

 

[Something Amyss]

In fact I've defended the game numerous times elsewhere against rather more unpleasant crowds than are seen around here for its artistic stylings.

...and if I had said you specifically, or that nobody had ever defended it, this might be relevant. Don't accuse me of insulting you if you're not going to be insulted at what I actually said. I never said it wasn't possible. I specifically said that you lot were "hardly" heard from. That you personally said something doesn't make that true. In fact, the paucity of responses kinda indicates the other way around.

It IS possible to both support Gone Home's existence AND to oppose this kind of societal suppression by conservative attitudes and perspectives.

Basically, you're saying I'm wrong because you've demonstrated something I have not contested. I'm curious as to why.

 

[Something Amyss]

Except America has 3 times the population of Japan, so really adjusted for population size the game sells about the same.

Also factor in that DOAX 1 and 2 were exclusive to consoles which don't sell well in Japan.

I wonder if the end result might be different on a console that does....

If they have that infrastructure, then ya they can do that. I kind of wonder why that isn't more of an option with Japanese games. I mean there are a lot of games that they aren't shipping here not simply one.

This still requires localisation and will be for a smaller base (at least with consoles). I imagine that if distribution and numbers are a problem, they will likely continue to be going to DD route. And I've seen this come up for non-fetish games before. Just because the store doesn't cost them money anymore doesn't mean there aren't other issues.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

It's the precedent it sets. Censorship is insidious like that. First they come for the boobs and ass simulator and nobody gives a damn but by the time things "mainstream westerners" tend to like are getting disallowed it'd be already too late. You can't say "this one thing, this one is just vile enough that it's ok to censor it" because who is to say what is "vile enough". You may draw the line at this game but someone could draw it at something like GTA, someone could draw it at God of War. The only 100% surefire way to ensure that we can keep having the games we actually like is not allowing anything to be censored.

"Censorship" of that kind happens all the time, however, especially with content from Japan. A manga called Kodomo no Jikan was planned for localization, and shouted down by groups in the US because the main child character takes a bath with her uncle, something not unheard of outside the US. Nobody cared about that censorship or the precedent it set, they only care when there's SJWs involved.

Right there, just now, I lied to you. In fact it was opposed for its over-the-top and rather persistent and pedophilic themes, but it's an example of the way these things can be framed to manipulate people's emotions. Still, the point still mostly stands, first they come for the softcore pedo stuff, then for the grown up T&A, then we're gassing Jews for microaggressions. Slippery slope!

The fact is that no one is entitled to these things, the developer made a conscious decision not to release it in the west for what is probably a litany of reasons (anyone who honestly think business decisions like this are made on any one reason is a tool), it does not constitute insidious censorship, regardless of where the line for "acceptable content" is drawn.

First of all I know all about kojika, I believe the scene in question was the one in the gym where they were under the same shirt cause it was cold and the guy was getting an erection, so what you originally mention is factually inaccurate, unlike things in this case here. (as an aside, Kojika is a coming of age story from the eyes of the female protagonist and it deals with sexuality since it is a big part of growing up, even if people are creeped out by it in the west, it's just too culturally different for the west so they couldn't publish it, the author, a woman, was quite surprised by this, in fact. I think it's a gross over-exaggeration to call it softcore pedo stuff)


We are entitled to a free market and if people don't like stuff they can speak with their wallet and not buy it. People aren't entitled to ban content that they don't like.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Good thing they aren't doing that then.

Besides, DoA is already the "boob physics" fighter. The only criticism T-K would be getting is the exact same stuff they get now. The isn't some new strain of "Super SJW" that's going to be marring a company with a clean rep here.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Good thing they aren't doing that then.

Besides, DoA is already the "boob physics" fighter. The only criticism T-K would be getting is the exact same stuff they get now. The isn't some new strain of "Super SJW" that's going to be marring a company with a clean rep here.

In the case of koei, what they don't want to have happen isn't their reputation being marred but rather more discussion about these issues engulfing their time and social media pages. Certainly some discussion would happen with them in the center of it but it seems they figured a lot more of it would happen if this game came out and with good reason.


Though we can all agree that they've been engulfed anyways, so now they might as well release the damn thing lol.

 

[hentropy]

"Censorship" of that kind happens all the time, however, especially with content from Japan. A manga called Kodomo no Jikan was planned for localization, and shouted down by groups in the US because the main child character takes a bath with her uncle, something not unheard of outside the US. Nobody cared about that censorship or the precedent it set, they only care when there's SJWs involved.

Right there, just now, I lied to you. In fact it was opposed for its over-the-top and rather persistent and pedophilic themes, but it's an example of the way these things can be framed to manipulate people's emotions. Still, the point still mostly stands, first they come for the softcore pedo stuff, then for the grown up T&A, then we're gassing Jews for microaggressions. Slippery slope!

The fact is that no one is entitled to these things, the developer made a conscious decision not to release it in the west for what is probably a litany of reasons (anyone who honestly think business decisions like this are made on any one reason is a tool), it does not constitute insidious censorship, regardless of where the line for "acceptable content" is drawn.

First of all I know all about kojika, I believe the scene in question was the one in the gym where they were under the same shirt cause it was cold and the guy was getting an erection, so what you originally mention is factually inaccurate, unlike things in this case here. (as an aside, Kojika is a coming of age story from the eyes of the female protagonist and it deals with sexuality since it is a big part of growing up, even if people are creeped out by it in the west, it's just too culturally different for the west so they couldn't publish it, the author, a woman, was quite surprised by this, in fact. I think it's a gross over-exaggeration to call it softcore pedo stuff)


We are entitled to a free market and if people don't like stuff they can speak with their wallet and not buy it. People aren't entitled to ban content that they don't like.

I already stated myself that it was a lie, I'm not sure why you're acting surprised that it was inaccurate, considering that I, uh, told you it was. Is this real life?

But if I'm reading the rest of your post right it seems you do agree that Kodomo no Jikan, for whatever merits it might or might not have (you seem to know it better than I, that's not a judgement but an indication of my own familiarity with it), it should be released in the US regardless and those parties before should not have tried to stop it from being released. It is at least a consistent stance, but not one that most people on your side might share. Personally I'm glad it didn't make it to an NA release, the last thing I wanted was another one of my hobbies being demonized as society-killing on Fox News and having manga being associated with the more seedier side of it in most people's minds. Kodomo no Jikan is easy for anyone to go and read currently, in English, so it's not like it's been washed from history.

There are reasons things get opposed like this and censored, the issue is where exactly we draw that line. I was a teenager when the first DOAX game came out, it was considered shallow, gimmicky, pandering nonsense to most people back then. I have no problem with "sexy" games and am even on record praising HuniePop, but DOAX was never a good game, no one was really begging for a sequel, and it's only an issue now because one person made a facebook post, PlayAsia made largely unsubstantiated claims, which the developer then refuted outright. You can still buy the game easily. It's far from insidious censorship, more like insidious (although very clever) marketing.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Here's the thing, I'm not aware of "parties" that are responsible for Kojika not being released. It most definitely wasn't SJWs or whatever, since this choice was made many years ago. I think Kojika was not released simply because the publisher didn't wanna deal with the controversy and the author refused to allow changes to the base story beyond changing the name to "nymphette". They didn't blame anyone when they said they wouldn't release it, they just said that they themselves felt it'd not be a good idea to do so, out of fear.

Now, I don't think that this fear is the same fear that koei expressed. Their fear stems from a very real thing which is that pedos are a real problem that pretty much everyone in society agrees with and even the image of impropriety in this context would be MORE than enough to sink a company through the Fox news of the world that you bring up. Basically, the climate is such that a company will choose to self-censor itself or risk going out of business. I still maintain that censorship is never the answer and that people should be left free to buy or not buy the things that are released and that it's enough to just do this much. (and I also maintain that Kojika is a very well written story they'll make you cry and stuff, people just focus on the sexual moments too much when most of them are comedy to relieve the tension of dealing with the loss of a parent and such stuff)

 

[Lightspeaker]

I think the fact that this thread has been full of people saying "this is terrible, damn those SJWS" and barely anyone saying "this is terrible, I really wanted to play this" might say something about why this isn't getting localised.

Its called "setting a precedent". People don't want to see it happen.

In fact I've defended the game numerous times elsewhere against rather more unpleasant crowds than are seen around here for its artistic stylings.

...and if I had said you specifically, or that nobody had ever defended it, this might be relevant. Don't accuse me of insulting you if you're not going to be insulted at what I actually said. I never said it wasn't possible. I specifically said that you lot were "hardly" heard from. That you personally said something doesn't make that true. In fact, the paucity of responses kinda indicates the other way around.

It IS possible to both support Gone Home's existence AND to oppose this kind of societal suppression by conservative attitudes and perspectives.

Basically, you're saying I'm wrong because you've demonstrated something I have not contested. I'm curious as to why.

You make broad-based accusations that "people don't do this, I don't hear from them". I was merely demonstrating this was incorrect.

If you're wondering why people don't actually engage too often (until they lose their temper usually) its because trying to defend anything at all these days usually results in outrage and being accused as "one of them!" depending on what side you're defending at the particular time. Its tiring, frankly.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I think the fact that this thread has been full of people saying "this is terrible, damn those SJWS" and barely anyone saying "this is terrible, I really wanted to play this" might say something about why this isn't getting localised.

I hadn't even heard that this game was being made until now and this now people are talking about... and of course if they now change their mind and localise the game down the line they can probably get a lot of the "screw the SJWs" dollars that games like "Hatred" managed to rake in. The alternative to making an engaging game is to wrap a dull game up in an engaging controversy.

Having said that maybe I'm overestimated the subtle intelligence of a group of people capable of making the first few Dead of Alive Beach Volleyball games.

I was with you until the last part... Seems needlessly arsey.

It's a niche game to start with, even in Japan really. According to: http://www.vgchartz.com/game/482/dead-or-alive-xtreme-beach-volleyball/ http://www.vgchartz.com/game/481/dead-or-alive-xtreme-2/ North America is actually where they got the most sales on the predecessors.

Seems like NA is actually the key territory, so maybe their reluctance is due to social pressure and fear of their brand-name being forever associated with the accusations levied at them by Western media.

I the fact that they get more sales in NA brought out as an excuse that the game will sell in NA, but I don't know if that is the case. You have to keep in mind NA is much much bigger then japan. Any game would sell more units in NA, but your capturing a much much smaller % then it looks. Though the real bugbear is distribution. Because NA is so big, the cost to get the game in stores is a lot higher. The density might not be enough. (Then you know localization is a thing.)

Surely less of an issue now than with the last 2 games now that we have substantial DD?

I think the fact that this thread has been full of people saying "this is terrible, damn those SJWS" and barely anyone saying "this is terrible, I really wanted to play this" might say something about why this isn't getting localised.

I hadn't even heard that this game was being made until now and this now people are talking about... and of course if they now change their mind and localise the game down the line they can probably get a lot of the "screw the SJWs" dollars that games like "Hatred" managed to rake in. The alternative to making an engaging game is to wrap a dull game up in an engaging controversy.

Having said that maybe I'm overestimated the subtle intelligence of a group of people capable of making the first few Dead of Alive Beach Volleyball games.

I was with you until the last part... Seems needlessly arsey.

It's a niche game to start with, even in Japan really. According to: http://www.vgchartz.com/game/482/dead-or-alive-xtreme-beach-volleyball/ http://www.vgchartz.com/game/481/dead-or-alive-xtreme-2/ North America is actually where they got the most sales on the predecessors.

Seems like NA is actually the key territory, so maybe their reluctance is due to social pressure and fear of their brand-name being forever associated with the accusations levied at them by Western media.

Except America has 3 times the population of Japan, so really adjusted for population size the game sells about the same. Then you have to factor in translation, shipping, distribution. AND the fact that Japanese businesses don't have the same culture as "fuck it lets make all the money" American corporations do.

They were never going to bring DOA to the West. They SAID they were never going to (or at least they said they were "if fans demanded it enough" which is a corporate No) They were asked a loaded question by an unethical journalist looking for a specific answer, and they gave a vague corporate answer that said nothing that was then taken by the unethical journalist as a confirmation for their own bias. End of story.

Play-asia is selling an asian version that doesn't have region-protection and has english language options. Is there a good reason why they couldn't just put that up for DD and stuff brick-and-mortar distribution worries?

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

That's a good point. I mean, why localize for Europe if you didn't want to deal with Sweden again or whatever. Makes much more sense than being scared of hypothetical game reviews they didn't give half a shit about before.

Dealing with some grumpy governments or ratings boards for a game that's probably not going to sell very well? Ehh, we'll just let folks import.

Sweden doesn't have a rating board nor any state organ that censors or forbids games (nor any other media for that matter since the censorship board for movies was closed). Sweden just uses the ESRB rating system and that's that.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

That's a good point. I mean, why localize for Europe if you didn't want to deal with Sweden again or whatever. Makes much more sense than being scared of hypothetical game reviews they didn't give half a shit about before.

Dealing with some grumpy governments or ratings boards for a game that's probably not going to sell very well? Ehh, we'll just let folks import.

Sweden doesn't have a rating board nor any state organ that censors or forbids games (nor any other media for that matter since the censorship board for movies was closed). Sweden just uses the ESRB rating system and that's that.

I must be thinking of a different country. Or confusing it with a BS Internet Rumor. Something about a country being mad at the DoA folks because almost none of their female characters are 18+, so they made a big chested 14 year old from that country.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

I think the fact that this thread has been full of people saying "this is terrible, damn those SJWS" and barely anyone saying "this is terrible, I really wanted to play this" might say something about why this isn't getting localised.

I hadn't even heard that this game was being made until now and this now people are talking about... and of course if they now change their mind and localise the game down the line they can probably get a lot of the "screw the SJWs" dollars that games like "Hatred" managed to rake in. The alternative to making an engaging game is to wrap a dull game up in an engaging controversy.

Having said that maybe I'm overestimated the subtle intelligence of a group of people capable of making the first few Dead of Alive Beach Volleyball games.

I was with you until the last part... Seems needlessly arsey.

It's a niche game to start with, even in Japan really. According to: http://www.vgchartz.com/game/482/dead-or-alive-xtreme-beach-volleyball/ http://www.vgchartz.com/game/481/dead-or-alive-xtreme-2/ North America is actually where they got the most sales on the predecessors.

Seems like NA is actually the key territory, so maybe their reluctance is due to social pressure and fear of their brand-name being forever associated with the accusations levied at them by Western media.

I the fact that they get more sales in NA brought out as an excuse that the game will sell in NA, but I don't know if that is the case. You have to keep in mind NA is much much bigger then japan. Any game would sell more units in NA, but your capturing a much much smaller % then it looks. Though the real bugbear is distribution. Because NA is so big, the cost to get the game in stores is a lot higher. The density might not be enough. (Then you know localization is a thing.)

Surely less of an issue now than with the last 2 games now that we have substantial DD?

Maybe. I mean you don't have to ship physical disks that way, but you still need to advertise localize, and something elseize. It is still more work though and the more sales might not pay for that more work. So maybe.

 

[WindKnight]

Play-asia is selling an asian version that doesn't have region-protection and has english language options. Is there a good reason why they couldn't just put that up for DD and stuff brick-and-mortar distribution worries?

Well, localisation also involves creating new box art, and as well as submitting the game for certification by the appropriate regulatory body, neither of which are free.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

As well as dealing with reviews on major gaming journalist sites

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

That's a good point. I mean, why localize for Europe if you didn't want to deal with Sweden again or whatever. Makes much more sense than being scared of hypothetical game reviews they didn't give half a shit about before.

Dealing with some grumpy governments or ratings boards for a game that's probably not going to sell very well? Ehh, we'll just let folks import.

Sweden doesn't have a rating board nor any state organ that censors or forbids games (nor any other media for that matter since the censorship board for movies was closed). Sweden just uses the ESRB rating system and that's that.

I must be thinking of a different country. Or confusing it with a BS Internet Rumor. Something about a country being mad at the DoA folks because almost none of their female characters are 18+, so they made a big chested 14 year old from that country.

The story was that the DS game DoA: Dimensions was banned in Sweden and other countries because people on a forum pointed out that some of the underage characters could be put in somewhat exposing poses, which broke their child porn laws and that was the end of that.
So they made Marie Rose [http://deadoralive.wikia.com/wiki/Marie_Rose] in DoA 5 as a "Take That" by giving her more or less the same body but making her 18 and Swedish.
Also, it turns out shes also going to be in DoAX3. Because of course she is.

Whatever you think of the DoA guys, you have to admit, they have balls.
Hence why they might enjoy their work a bit too much >.>

So to Alt's point, there's another reason why they might reconsider localizing a game with a literal lolita suffering from "Wardrobe Malfuntions" in it, especially if they already had a run in with the governments there.
Least in the main series, it's a fighting game so everything kinda fair play there (I take this moment to remind people that you fight robot girls with chainsaw arms, Dinosaurs, Angels, Demons Bears, Pandas and Boxing Kangaroos in the Tekken Series Alone), but for the kinda..."Gameplay" they would be going for in DoAX3?

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I think the fact that this thread has been full of people saying "this is terrible, damn those SJWS" and barely anyone saying "this is terrible, I really wanted to play this" might say something about why this isn't getting localised.

I hadn't even heard that this game was being made until now and this now people are talking about... and of course if they now change their mind and localise the game down the line they can probably get a lot of the "screw the SJWs" dollars that games like "Hatred" managed to rake in. The alternative to making an engaging game is to wrap a dull game up in an engaging controversy.

Having said that maybe I'm overestimated the subtle intelligence of a group of people capable of making the first few Dead of Alive Beach Volleyball games.

I was with you until the last part... Seems needlessly arsey.

It's a niche game to start with, even in Japan really. According to: http://www.vgchartz.com/game/482/dead-or-alive-xtreme-beach-volleyball/ http://www.vgchartz.com/game/481/dead-or-alive-xtreme-2/ North America is actually where they got the most sales on the predecessors.

Seems like NA is actually the key territory, so maybe their reluctance is due to social pressure and fear of their brand-name being forever associated with the accusations levied at them by Western media.

I the fact that they get more sales in NA brought out as an excuse that the game will sell in NA, but I don't know if that is the case. You have to keep in mind NA is much much bigger then japan. Any game would sell more units in NA, but your capturing a much much smaller % then it looks. Though the real bugbear is distribution. Because NA is so big, the cost to get the game in stores is a lot higher. The density might not be enough. (Then you know localization is a thing.)

Surely less of an issue now than with the last 2 games now that we have substantial DD?

Maybe. I mean you don't have to ship physical disks that way, but you still need to advertise localize, and something elseize. It is still more work though and the more sales might not pay for that more work. So maybe.

I always thought the localisation thing was overblown. I don't have/need asian films localised... The subtitles are plenty adequate for me to understand what's going on. I wouldn't even mind if they just put subtitles around that informed me what signs were saying and stuff like that, especially if I could just click it on and off.

Play-asia is selling an asian version that doesn't have region-protection and has english language options. Is there a good reason why they couldn't just put that up for DD and stuff brick-and-mortar distribution worries?

Well, localisation also involves creating new box art, and as well as submitting the game for certification by the appropriate regulatory body, neither of which are free.

Why do you need new box art? Or do you just mean putting the title of the game in English? Have you seen the box-art they've used up to now? It's the kind of thing amateurs could knock out without too much bother. Also DD.

How much does submitting for certification cost exactly? Honestly enough to give Tecmo a headache?

 

[Amir Kondori]

Sounds to me like a company deciding that the US market for the game is too small to make the localization profitable. Then someone makes a BS excuse so the fans are upset at someone else.

Hmmm... What evidence do you have of this?

OT: This is pretty troubling. Hopefully this doesn't become a trend or anything. Not that I was planning on buying the game myself, I'm sure other people in this region of the world would have liked to buy it.

I think the evidence is a thing called capitalism. This wouldn't be the first time a company has done this kind of thing.