Yay, a Doctor Who column, I'm a noob to the series (Started with the Eleventh Doctor), and you wrote that great article about how comics where important to you growing up right? Awesome!
Doctor Who: Let?s Kill Craig
- Thread starter Susan Arendt
- Start date
This sums up how I felt about it. It felt very "ok, this is a family show so the nice, friendly innocent has to win in every possible way". It felt like a cop out, basically.Susan Arendt said:
Here's how I would've ended it. James Cordon gets turned into the Cybermen controller, or whatever they called it. Hearing his crying child doesn't save him from his fate, but it helps him hold onto a shread of humanity. He's now in control of the Cybermen, and he doesn't want to kill people.
The Doctor has to take Alfie back to his mother. She obviously upset and tells him it's all his fault etc. He decides it's time to face his death. Alfie says his first word, and it's "daddy". Boom. Sad ending.
I didn't really mind that Craig's love for his child was able to beat the (weak, fairly broken, barely functioning) cybermen in this episode, much like how the 9th Doctor confidently battled the diminished, still rebuilding Dalek empire in Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways, compared to how scared shitless #10 was in the face of the full-powered, time war-ready Dalek forces in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End. Then again, that could also just have been #9's PTSD-induced death wish.
On an unrelated note, I really miss Chris Eccleston as The Doctor.
On an unrelated note, I really miss Chris Eccleston as The Doctor.
I'm not a huge "Doctor Who" fan, but I can say I agree with this analysis, but it's not a problem with just "Doctor Who" but with a lot of fantasy in general... that sappy things are tossed in that make no real sense, especially when it comes down to the love of a single parent for a child or that of a couple of soul mates standing against some universal threat or whatever. Even though it wasn't the first source to have this problem (by a long shot) I tend to think of it as "The Harry Potter Complex", where the same basic thing happened, the big "answer" to why Voldemort failed to kill him and wound up taking himself out was that Harry's mother loved him and it added power to her spells at a crucial moment... which is the same basic "WTF" occurance as we're seeing here given that Voldemort was pretty much on a massive slaughtering rampage, and what happened there (him killing a whole family) was not unusual other than this specific backlash. It's like saying noone else's mother loved their murdered children or died trying to save them.....
At any rate with "Doctor Who" at least they have the abillity to fix things to some extent given the time travel elements of the show. There might have been something going on there that we weren't otherwise seeing that could be inserted into the show to be clever. Say down the road with a differant Doctor they could pull Craig's actor out as a special guest star, show an alternate take of the whole scene where the logical thing happens, but reveal that at some other point The Doctor has an oppertunity to intervene there in some sneaky way, sabotaged the process, but the Doctor at that point wouldn't have known... or whatever. I doubt the writers really care that much, given that it was doubtlessly just a filler episode to help pad out a season.
At any rate with "Doctor Who" at least they have the abillity to fix things to some extent given the time travel elements of the show. There might have been something going on there that we weren't otherwise seeing that could be inserted into the show to be clever. Say down the road with a differant Doctor they could pull Craig's actor out as a special guest star, show an alternate take of the whole scene where the logical thing happens, but reveal that at some other point The Doctor has an oppertunity to intervene there in some sneaky way, sabotaged the process, but the Doctor at that point wouldn't have known... or whatever. I doubt the writers really care that much, given that it was doubtlessly just a filler episode to help pad out a season.
Yeah, I was kind of irritated. At the beginning of the episode the Doctor refuses to let Craig get involved because it's dangerous and we's trying to turn over a new leaf so he stops ruining peoples lives - something he seems to have cone pretty consistently. Sure, he repeatedly saves the world but in Let's Kill Hitler The Doctor had to face projections of his last few companions from Rose to Amy and felt bad about all of them - except young Amy, before he ruined everything.
It's like there was a tipping point there, the episode balanced on a point where The Doctor basically explained this to Craig because (as we find out later) he plans to go meet his fate at Lake Silencio and needs to stop being a hero and getting invovled because he's not going to be around much longer. If The Doctor had learned ANYTHING from the rest of the season he would've persisted and sent Craig packing.
Then he blackslides, learns nothing, nearly gets Craig killed and JUST when you think Craig being converted to a Cyberman might have drilled through The Doctor's thick skull, Love ex Machina saves the day and the Cybermen are defeated. Again.
It's like there was a tipping point there, the episode balanced on a point where The Doctor basically explained this to Craig because (as we find out later) he plans to go meet his fate at Lake Silencio and needs to stop being a hero and getting invovled because he's not going to be around much longer. If The Doctor had learned ANYTHING from the rest of the season he would've persisted and sent Craig packing.
Then he blackslides, learns nothing, nearly gets Craig killed and JUST when you think Craig being converted to a Cyberman might have drilled through The Doctor's thick skull, Love ex Machina saves the day and the Cybermen are defeated. Again.
Well firstly, as you pointed out, it would have been a disturbing mood shift for this episode, and secondly I think it would have worked if it hadn't been so corny.
This isn't the first time the power of love has been used to save someone, but on the other hand I would rate this worse than Victory of the Daleks, but for the greater opposition to narrative flow, not because it feels like a cop out.
Also, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that the Doctor destroys families is a current theme, considering in the two cases mentioned the Doctor's harm has been at least equalled by the positive things he has done for those same families.
This isn't the first time the power of love has been used to save someone, but on the other hand I would rate this worse than Victory of the Daleks, but for the greater opposition to narrative flow, not because it feels like a cop out.
Also, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that the Doctor destroys families is a current theme, considering in the two cases mentioned the Doctor's harm has been at least equalled by the positive things he has done for those same families.
Except thats not what it was about.Kermi said:
The point of this episode wasn't that the doctor needs to stop involving bystanders and ruining their lives. Its about how he feels responsible for it.
This was also the point in The God Complex.
Now what's changed is that in this episode Craig explains to the doctor that he wouldn't want to have it any other way than to be involved. I.E.
Its NOT the doctors call what other people do. THAT is his god complex, not that he tries to save everyone.
The point of the episode isn't a learning experience for the doctor where he needs to go
"Yes I am responsible for the suffering of all my companions - i must protect them by staying away"
Its the polar opposite. Its the realization that he should stop treating his companions like children, they sign up (largely) by their own volition. He is not God and its NOT his call what others decide to do.
After all, remember Martha Jones? Or Sarah Jane? They went on to fight intergalactic forces -without- the doctor, out of their own volition. Martha became a part of UNIT and almost blew up the earth once.
They are responsible adults, they do what they want.
Putting Craig in this episode was brilliant, BECAUSE he comes over as a bumbling idiot (in that "who's the baby in this episode anywho" sense), except hes not, he knows exactly what could happen to him if the Doctor is around. And the Doctor needs to accept that its not his fault if he can't save everyone. And most of all
BELIEVE in his companions. TRUST them like an adult.
Craig knows exactly that even if the Doctor is The Oncoming Storm, it is always safest at the -center- of it, its his call to join him.
You do realise that "first article" doesn't automatically mean "first complaint," right? Also, saying "time is funny like that" to explain away bad writing is a pretty weak argument.Cody Holden said:
Craig should have died, not because of his character but because the running theme in this half-series has been the consequences of the Doctors actions. By having companions he exposes people to danger, when saving people its usually him that gets them into danger.
The Doctor has to save people but sometimes he doesn't always manage it. His need to be a good guy that people can visibly see saving them, then leave before people can celebrate what he has done. This builds the legend of the Doctor as a man who arrives from nowhere, saves everyone then leaves without another word.
As the Doctor speeds towards his own finale the message that he can't always prevent death could have hit him like a sledgehammer if they'd killed Craig, the relationship between the Doctor and his companions would have been exposed as the Doctor knowingly putting friends in danger so he can satisfy his god-complex.
In the episode 'The Family of Blood' once John Smith has become the Doctor again he is asked if anyone would have died if he hadn't chosen the school in 1913 and he replies with 'No' we see that people die around him and he can't prevent this despite insisting on getting involved. In 'The Waters of Mars' the Doctor breaks set events to save people and when they realise he has tampered with time he merely declares himself Time Lord Victorious, undisputed master of time and control over its events.
Craig dying would have illustrated to the Doctor that his meddling in peoples lives can lead to their deaths, while he walks back to his TARDIS and the cycle begins again.
By the way, my captcha was: doctor's omitery. Its a sign
The Doctor has to save people but sometimes he doesn't always manage it. His need to be a good guy that people can visibly see saving them, then leave before people can celebrate what he has done. This builds the legend of the Doctor as a man who arrives from nowhere, saves everyone then leaves without another word.
As the Doctor speeds towards his own finale the message that he can't always prevent death could have hit him like a sledgehammer if they'd killed Craig, the relationship between the Doctor and his companions would have been exposed as the Doctor knowingly putting friends in danger so he can satisfy his god-complex.
In the episode 'The Family of Blood' once John Smith has become the Doctor again he is asked if anyone would have died if he hadn't chosen the school in 1913 and he replies with 'No' we see that people die around him and he can't prevent this despite insisting on getting involved. In 'The Waters of Mars' the Doctor breaks set events to save people and when they realise he has tampered with time he merely declares himself Time Lord Victorious, undisputed master of time and control over its events.
Craig dying would have illustrated to the Doctor that his meddling in peoples lives can lead to their deaths, while he walks back to his TARDIS and the cycle begins again.
By the way, my captcha was: doctor's omitery. Its a sign
]JaceValm said:
Except the situation would of been much worse in this case if the Doctor hadn't gotten involed. The Cybermen may of been able to gain enough reasons to beomce a threat to the world at large. And since Torchwood is borderline useless/in some alternate, Doctorless world, lots of people would of died. Hell, the events of The God Complex weren't the Doctor's fault. Except for Amy. But he saved one person, which is one more than if he hadn't been there.
Also since the Doctor lucked out with the defective conversion, Craig would of died. So, you know, he could see was putting people in danger.
Indeed, I did. Here you go: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_295/8676-Gifted-Youngsterchaosyoshimage said:
I loved that one, I was the same way as a kid. I'm sure that's not saying much since I'm commenting on a Doctor Who article on a video game forum, so obviously I'm a bit of a "nerd", lol. But, X-Men comics really helped get through that whole "I'm way different than everyone else here" period of life. Which is technically still going, but you know what I mean...Susan Arendt said:Indeed, I did. Here you go: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_295/8676-Gifted-Youngsterchaosyoshimage said:
A) It was a negative critique, for reasons I didn't agree with. Not a complaint. I acknowledge that.Logan Westbrook said:
B) It's a show that's been around for a half-century and passed between something like a dozen writers in that time. Inconsistencies are going to happen. At least they admit it. Besides, "time is funny like that" starts to become a necessity when your show is about a time traveler who floats from place to place deliberately disrupting major negative events in history. If not, every other episode would end up being a recolor of the episode where paradox monsters want Rose Tyler's dad dead.
(...What happened to the paradox monsters, anyhow?)
The no emotion, it's against people's will kind of makes the Cybermen really dull villains. If they were were people it would be oh it's bad to kill them but once you take away emotions and wrap them in metal, oh well kill all you want now with no moral struggle for the characters killing off Cybermen.
It seems like Cybermen could be so much scarier and more interesting characters if they dropped this silly thing of dull emotionless things and made them into characters. If someone embraced being a Cyberman because they were giving up their crippled body for a chance to walk again then you've got a moral sticky bit if the Doctor tries to stop those Cybermen from converting other crippled people into Cybermen.
Or as bad as the Nazis were with their super human program imagine if a radical group like that could convert themselves into Cybermen. A Nazi super solider was bad enough of a nightmare but Cybermen Nazis would be far worse.
It's time for the Cyberman to be something different and interesting rather that feeling like wow the Borg from Star Trek did this same no emotional upgrading humans so much better.
It seems like Cybermen could be so much scarier and more interesting characters if they dropped this silly thing of dull emotionless things and made them into characters. If someone embraced being a Cyberman because they were giving up their crippled body for a chance to walk again then you've got a moral sticky bit if the Doctor tries to stop those Cybermen from converting other crippled people into Cybermen.
Or as bad as the Nazis were with their super human program imagine if a radical group like that could convert themselves into Cybermen. A Nazi super solider was bad enough of a nightmare but Cybermen Nazis would be far worse.
It's time for the Cyberman to be something different and interesting rather that feeling like wow the Borg from Star Trek did this same no emotional upgrading humans so much better.