Doctor Who Season 8 Premieres August 23rd

[Canadamus Prime]

The most egregious I can think of is the whole Trensalor thing. After seeing the battlefield of Trenselor in "The Name of the Doctor" I was expecting something epic out of that, but nope;

Spoiler

apparently it's a Christmas town/planet and the Doctor spends 300+ years there defending it before succumbing to old age.

What a disappointing send off for Matt Smith too. Also I thought that whole 12 regenerations thing had been retconed or something.

In fairness, they've established several times that there are ways around the 12 regeneration limit since Classic Who, but I don't think they ever retconned it out entirely. I could be wrong, as my viewing of the classic series was long subject to availability and so I've missed quite a few serials. I mean, we knew the show wouldn't end, but I think there was still technically a cap. I think New Who even referenced it a couple of times.

Trenzalor was a letdown on so many levels. It was payoff that didn't pay off.

And overall disappointed with Smith's farewell. Then again, in New Who, Eccleston's end is the only one I've been even remotely satisfied with. And even then, well...Rose.

Ah, well. At least he didn't say something like "I don't want to go."

I wasn't sure. My access to so-called "Classic Who" (I've never understood the need to differentiate between "Old" and "New") has been limited to what's on Netflix which isn't much. That was actually the first time I'd actually heard the 12 regeneration limit mentioned in-show. The only reason I knew it existed before hand was through talking to other Doctor Who fans.

Speaking of Trenzelor, wouldn't the Doctor surviving it mean that Clara wouldn't become the Impossible Girl?

 

[Something Amyss]

I wasn't sure. My access to so-called "Classic Who" (I've never understood the need to differentiate between "Old" and "New") has been limited to what's on Netflix which isn't much. That was actually the first time I'd actually heard the 12 regeneration limit mentioned in-show. The only reason I knew it existed before hand was through talking to other Doctor Who fans.

I don't know if they've explicitly mentioned it since the revival. One of the main reasons I distinguish between the two is that the new show changed some of the rules, so it became both a revival and a bit of a reboot. As such, if they didn't mention it at all, then I could expect that it was dropped. But there have been a few references, if not direct, to a regeneration limit. Two come up during the River Song arc, for better or worse. I should say at least two, because I think there was one in the Wedding of River Song, too.

This also brings up a problem for season six. The entire arc revolved around the Doctor being executed before he could regenerate in a fixed point in time (which I didn't like to begin with). Well, that's fine, he has 1-2 regenerations left. Except he then confirms onscreen that both the War Doctor and the Tenth Doctor's first regeneration counted, and Moffatt confirmed it was canon, which means he didn't have any left. This would be fine if they had dropped or changed the regeneration limit, but then they confirmed that. and made a plot point out of it.

To be honest, this is something I would probably have dropped if I were bringing the show back. I know it would probably become a ranting point with Whovians, but with an average lifespan of about four years (I think Baker skews the average a bit up from there, but still), it no longer really made sense from a behind-the-scenes perspective.

And I don't say that lightly. There are only about three shows I have ever seriously considered how I would handle writing for/running them.

Speaking of Trenzelor, wouldn't the Doctor surviving it mean that Clara wouldn't become the Impossible Girl?

Oh God, if only it had.

Unfortunately, I'm sure the explanation is "Wibbly Wobbly, Timey Wimey."

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I wasn't sure. My access to so-called "Classic Who" (I've never understood the need to differentiate between "Old" and "New") has been limited to what's on Netflix which isn't much. That was actually the first time I'd actually heard the 12 regeneration limit mentioned in-show. The only reason I knew it existed before hand was through talking to other Doctor Who fans.

I don't know if they've explicitly mentioned it since the revival. One of the main reasons I distinguish between the two is that the new show changed some of the rules, so it became both a revival and a bit of a reboot. As such, if they didn't mention it at all, then I could expect that it was dropped. But there have been a few references, if not direct, to a regeneration limit. Two come up during the River Song arc, for better or worse. I should say at least two, because I think there was one in the Wedding of River Song, too.

This also brings up a problem for season six. The entire arc revolved around the Doctor being executed before he could regenerate in a fixed point in time (which I didn't like to begin with). Well, that's fine, he has 1-2 regenerations left. Except he then confirms onscreen that both the War Doctor and the Tenth Doctor's first regeneration counted, and Moffatt confirmed it was canon, which means he didn't have any left. This would be fine if they had dropped or changed the regeneration limit, but then they confirmed that. and made a plot point out of it.

To be honest, this is something I would probably have dropped if I were bringing the show back. I know it would probably become a ranting point with Whovians, but with an average lifespan of about four years (I think Baker skews the average a bit up from there, but still), it no longer really made sense from a behind-the-scenes perspective.

And I don't say that lightly. There are only about three shows I have ever seriously considered how I would handle writing for/running them.

Speaking of Trenzelor, wouldn't the Doctor surviving it mean that Clara wouldn't become the Impossible Girl?

Oh God, if only it had.

Unfortunately, I'm sure the explanation is "Wibbly Wobbly, Timey Wimey."

Well I was under the impression that it was all part of the same series. Esp. considering "New Who" seems to carry on from "Classic Who." It's not like it started over from Square One.
Anyway, funny you should mention that thing with season/series 6, because that's been bugging me too. If the Doctor had no regenerations left how could he be seen to start regenerating in "The Impossible Astronaut?" Of course that could be written of since it turned out that that wasn't actually the Doctor, but a robotic suit thing. However, in "Let's Kill Hitler" when the Doctor is dying of the poison and talking to the TARDIS voice interface he mentions the need to regenerate which the TARDIS tells him he can't because the poison has disabled his ability to do so (or something). However if he was out of regenerations, and apparently knew he was out of regenerations, why would he even think of trying to regenerate?

Truthfully, the regeneration limit was probably introduced because they didn't expect the show to go on this long or had initially planned a limited run. However it seems that the show can last much longer than originally planned so having a limit on regenerations no longer makes sense.

Well I like Clara, but it still doesn't make sense for the Doctor to survive Tenzalor and still have her become the Impossible Girl.

 

[Something Amyss]

Well I was under the impression that it was all part of the same series. Esp. considering "New Who" seems to carry on from "Classic Who." It's not like it started over from Square One.

It is the same series, but they've changed the rules and rewritten canon to an extent that it is kind of an issue. This has led to a bunch of Whovians complaining about plot holes that aren't holes so much as they are retcons, often mentioned at some point in the show.

Granted, it could also be argued that the rules changed depending on the show's era, Doctor, and need, so maybe it's an artificial distinction. A lot of things classic who fans ***** about were present in the old show. Since the revival, they've attempted to codify it more (which, oddly enuogh, only seems to make the screw-ups more apparent).

Anyway, funny you should mention that thing with season/series 6, because that's been bugging me too. If the Doctor had no regenerations left how could he be seen to start regenerating in "The Impossible Astronaut?" Of course that could be written of since it turned out that that wasn't actually the Doctor, but a robotic suit thing. However, in "Let's Kill Hitler" when the Doctor is dying of the poison and talking to the TARDIS voice interface he mentions the need to regenerate which the TARDIS tells him he can't because the poison has disabled his ability to do so (or something). However if he was out of regenerations, and apparently knew he was out of regenerations, why would he even think of trying to regenerate?

Yup. And if this was the final regeneration of the Doctor, they wouldn't need to go to these lengths to kill him off in some funky way. Ironically, these attempts eventually lead him to Trenzalor, where he's granted more regenerations. Which would be cool if it was a stable time loop (which is sort of the case with the cracks in time, or is the case with "Blink," and several other times we've seen), but this is more an asspull.

I guess we could argue that they didn't know, but they seem to know so much about the Doctor.

Truthfully, the regeneration limit was probably introduced because they didn't expect the show to go on this long or had initially planned a limited run. However it seems that the show can last much longer than originally planned so having a limit on regenerations no longer makes sense.

Oh, totally. The regeneration thing was a brilliant way to extend the show, and when they first established it, I doubt anyone foresaw it lasting as long as it did, especially considering it's one of the few shows to successfully be revived. I sincerely doubt anyone who was involved when they came up with regeneration pictured that we'd be talking about the viability of regeneration in an ongoing show in 2014. As such, I have no problem with the limit. When the show was revised, though, it was probably time to shelf it.

Ah well, we're here anyway.

Well I like Clara, but it still doesn't make sense for the Doctor to survive Tenzalor and still have her become the Impossible Girl.

I dislike Clara's importance to the plot, I guess. Which mostly has to do with her being "The Impossible Girl."

Either way, I'm pretty sure the events on Trenzalor should constitute a paradox, since The Impossible Girl and the Doctor's death are necessary for him to get to Trenzalor in the first time.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Well I was under the impression that it was all part of the same series. Esp. considering "New Who" seems to carry on from "Classic Who." It's not like it started over from Square One.

It is the same series, but they've changed the rules and rewritten canon to an extent that it is kind of an issue. This has led to a bunch of Whovians complaining about plot holes that aren't holes so much as they are retcons, often mentioned at some point in the show.

Granted, it could also be argued that the rules changed depending on the show's era, Doctor, and need, so maybe it's an artificial distinction. A lot of things classic who fans ***** about were present in the old show. Since the revival, they've attempted to codify it more (which, oddly enuogh, only seems to make the screw-ups more apparent).

Anyway, funny you should mention that thing with season/series 6, because that's been bugging me too. If the Doctor had no regenerations left how could he be seen to start regenerating in "The Impossible Astronaut?" Of course that could be written of since it turned out that that wasn't actually the Doctor, but a robotic suit thing. However, in "Let's Kill Hitler" when the Doctor is dying of the poison and talking to the TARDIS voice interface he mentions the need to regenerate which the TARDIS tells him he can't because the poison has disabled his ability to do so (or something). However if he was out of regenerations, and apparently knew he was out of regenerations, why would he even think of trying to regenerate?

Yup. And if this was the final regeneration of the Doctor, they wouldn't need to go to these lengths to kill him off in some funky way. Ironically, these attempts eventually lead him to Trenzalor, where he's granted more regenerations. Which would be cool if it was a stable time loop (which is sort of the case with the cracks in time, or is the case with "Blink," and several other times we've seen), but this is more an asspull.

I guess we could argue that they didn't know, but they seem to know so much about the Doctor.

Truthfully, the regeneration limit was probably introduced because they didn't expect the show to go on this long or had initially planned a limited run. However it seems that the show can last much longer than originally planned so having a limit on regenerations no longer makes sense.

Oh, totally. The regeneration thing was a brilliant way to extend the show, and when they first established it, I doubt anyone foresaw it lasting as long as it did, especially considering it's one of the few shows to successfully be revived. I sincerely doubt anyone who was involved when they came up with regeneration pictured that we'd be talking about the viability of regeneration in an ongoing show in 2014. As such, I have no problem with the limit. When the show was revised, though, it was probably time to shelf it.

Ah well, we're here anyway.

Well I like Clara, but it still doesn't make sense for the Doctor to survive Tenzalor and still have her become the Impossible Girl.

I dislike Clara's importance to the plot, I guess. Which mostly has to do with her being "The Impossible Girl."

Either way, I'm pretty sure the events on Trenzalor should constitute a paradox, since The Impossible Girl and the Doctor's death are necessary for him to get to Trenzalor in the first time.

Well since it was not actually a reboot, the distinction seems arbitrary to me, but then again I started watching Doctor Who with the "New" series. I don't know much of the previously established rules, but I did notice that visuals did seem to change slightly with the era, presumably as technology and film techniques (and budget) improved. I imagine the shift between "Classic" and "New" is probably the most jarring so people seem to notice and dwell on it more.

Those Silence guys did seem to go to great lengths to try and kill the Doctor, didn't they? Esp. since going to Trenzalor was more detrimental to the Doctor than it was for them.

Well the Impossible Girl thing isn't the worst thing Moffat's ever written.