Doctor Who Series 6.13: "The Wedding of River Song' [SPOILERS] + Series wrap up

[spacelift]

If you think about, The Silence would have had to kidnap Amy and replace her with a flesh Ganger... even though we've never seen them have access to Time Travel capabilities... and they would need Amy in the future to create the Ganger in the first place. But it would have to be Amy before she was taken in the past or she'd have all the memories of being taken in the Ganger form.

Okay it is a plot hole, and it makes no fucking sense when you commit any serious nerd-thought to it. But with this show, I forgive more than I do with any other. We got our awesome pay off in the form of the Battle of Demon's Run and we finally figure out who the hell River Song actually is, so I'd call it about even.

Right, as I understand it there are these memory-erasing sharp-suited types called the Silents. They are used as tools by the religious order known as the Silence, who definitely have access to time travel (what with them having foreknowledge of the silence which will fall when the Doctor fails to answer the question), to kidnap Amy (who is under the influence of the Silent memory-wipe, so she can't remember being taken to the future), make her ganger and return that to the '60s.

Think that fills the hole. OT, really enjoyed the episode although I feel a fool because the Tesselector recap at the start of the episode should have clued me in to how the Doctor survived, but I was busy giggling at "live" chess, pterodactyls, Holy Roman Emperor Winston Churchill and balloon cars.

 

[Seventh Actuality]

The episode was absolute rubbish, just like the entirety of this season. Moffat is really driving Doctor Who into the ground, the good thing about RTD's revival was that it wasn't like the classic series, it was actually good. Now it is basically the same, it even has the crappy costumes to match (fat blue head in a box and lizard people, seriously?)

So disappointed with Doctor Who, especially when watching Supernatural at the same time. I think it is time they took out of the hands of the Brits and gave it to some Americans who understand how sci-fi should work. They need to drop this whole River Song/Silence arc, regenerate the Doctor and start fresh, if they want the show to actually be liked by normal people again (not just nerds and British people).

The way you phrase this makes it the highest possible praise you could give Moffat's season.

 

[MrJKapowey]

Sooo, I've never watched Dr Who before (Okay, I watched the one with the Autons in the department store and Rose, but I did't enjoy it and was pretty much reading through half of it...) and was going to watch Dr Who last night (mainly because it had Winston Churchill looking awesome with a pistol and numerous people with machineguns...) but didn't bother, mainly because I was on a roll on Battlefield 3, but also because I couldn't find the remote...

Would people here, A recommend me to watch that episode? And B recommend me a Matt Smith episode to start watching from.

EDIT:

So I ask, in this finale, the Dr says " I've always wondered what they looked like"
That makes no sense, how can you wonder about something you cannot remember. Every encounter is forgotten once you look away, thats the point. If you argue that he was told about them, then these people are new to his time stream, and can only have informed him within the context of this episode, as none of them had those reminder eye patches.

That whole marking the hand thing is stupid. YOU FORGET THEM AS SOON AS YOU LOOK AWAY. So you will look at yourself, and think why the fuck do i have felt tally marks on my arms?
You will not be able to remember its a reminder of an enemy you have no recognition of. The mark is not a photo of the silence, its just a mark, which means nothing without the power to remember what its for. The silence make you forget, therefore its a retarded system.

Why? If you know you're fighting an enemy which you can't remember after looking away from, then you must've decided to use the system of tallies before hand, this means you will know afterwards about the tally...

And I thought you forgot the encounter after looking away, not their existance. This means someone must've documented them, possibly through a camera or some shit like that. Then they wrote a book about them, an article or told the Doctor (it doesn't have to be a human who did it). Therefore DW knows about their existance, but can't remember any encounters so he doesn't know what they look like.

Sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick, I haven't watched the show, but this knowledge comes from someone who does and talks avidly about it.

 

[Soeroah]

Surprising amount of Moffatt hate going on because his episodes aren't as good as Blink was.




Honestly, everyone's entitled to their opinions, but it's starting to bug me how people are insulting Moffatt as a writer rather than just saying they don't like his stories. He's written brilliant shows in the past, and great episodes of Doctor Who, even if not all of them are as good as others.

And...yeah. I can only say everyone has opinions so many times. I don't expect people to talk subjectively all the time, especially not on the Internet, but it'd be nice to see people admit they didn't like certain episodes due to personal preference rather than because "the writing was terrible".

 

[TimeLord]

Sooo, I've never watched Dr Who before (Okay, I watched the one with the Autons in the department store and Rose, but I did't enjoy it and was pretty much reading through half of it...) and was going to watch Dr Who last night (mainly because it had Winston Churchill looking awesome with a pistol and numerous people with machineguns...) but didn't bother, mainly because I was on a roll on Battlefield 3, but also because I couldn't find the remote...

Would people here, A recommend me to watch that episode? And B recommend me a Matt Smith episode to start watching from.

The best reboot episode is series 3's 'Blink'. You don't need any Who-knowledge to watch it and it's a fantastic episode. Matt Smith has only been around for 2 series (current series 5 and 6) and his first episode is 'The Eleventh Hour'.

 

[Soeroah]

Sooo, I've never watched Dr Who before (Okay, I watched the one with the Autons in the department store and Rose, but I did't enjoy it and was pretty much reading through half of it...) and was going to watch Dr Who last night (mainly because it had Winston Churchill looking awesome with a pistol and numerous people with machineguns...) but didn't bother, mainly because I was on a roll on Battlefield 3, but also because I couldn't find the remote...

Would people here, A recommend me to watch that episode? And B recommend me a Matt Smith episode to start watching from.

The best reboot episode is series 3's 'Blink'. You don't need any Who-knowledge to watch it and it's a fantastic episode. Matt Smith has only been around for 2 series (current series 5 and 6) and his first episode is 'The Eleventh Hour'.

This. I reckon Blink is the best episode of the new Doctor Who series I've seen. Unfortunately, after seeing it I've subsconciously compared every other Moffatt episode to it, so I haven't enjoyed them as much as I could have.

 

[MrJKapowey]

Sooo, I've never watched Dr Who before (Okay, I watched the one with the Autons in the department store and Rose, but I did't enjoy it and was pretty much reading through half of it...) and was going to watch Dr Who last night (mainly because it had Winston Churchill looking awesome with a pistol and numerous people with machineguns...) but didn't bother, mainly because I was on a roll on Battlefield 3, but also because I couldn't find the remote...

Would people here, A recommend me to watch that episode? And B recommend me a Matt Smith episode to start watching from.

The best reboot episode is series 3's 'Blink'. You don't need any Who-knowledge to watch it and it's a fantastic episode. Matt Smith has only been around for 2 series (current series 5 and 6) and his first episode is 'The Eleventh Hour'.

Okay, but would you recommend I watch the Wedding of River Song?

 

[AVATAR_RAGE]

How do they keep explaining these crazy goings on! HOW!

 

[Garrsus]

i liked it overall, but it seemed a bit predictable, soon as i saw the tesalator was on his side i knew that's what died. the question was again obvious but i think it was supposed to be...

 

[Soeroah]

Sooo, I've never watched Dr Who before (Okay, I watched the one with the Autons in the department store and Rose, but I did't enjoy it and was pretty much reading through half of it...) and was going to watch Dr Who last night (mainly because it had Winston Churchill looking awesome with a pistol and numerous people with machineguns...) but didn't bother, mainly because I was on a roll on Battlefield 3, but also because I couldn't find the remote...

Would people here, A recommend me to watch that episode? And B recommend me a Matt Smith episode to start watching from.

The best reboot episode is series 3's 'Blink'. You don't need any Who-knowledge to watch it and it's a fantastic episode. Matt Smith has only been around for 2 series (current series 5 and 6) and his first episode is 'The Eleventh Hour'.

Okay, but would you recommend I watch the Wedding of River Song?

It really sort of requires watching the last two seasons, at least. Wedding of River Song is a season finale and has a lot of spoilers if you watch it before other episodes.

 

[Riesel87]

Sooo, I've never watched Dr Who before (Okay, I watched the one with the Autons in the department store and Rose, but I did't enjoy it and was pretty much reading through half of it...) and was going to watch Dr Who last night (mainly because it had Winston Churchill looking awesome with a pistol and numerous people with machineguns...) but didn't bother, mainly because I was on a roll on Battlefield 3, but also because I couldn't find the remote...

Would people here, A recommend me to watch that episode? And B recommend me a Matt Smith episode to start watching from.

EDIT:

So I ask, in this finale, the Dr says " I've always wondered what they looked like"
That makes no sense, how can you wonder about something you cannot remember. Every encounter is forgotten once you look away, thats the point. If you argue that he was told about them, then these people are new to his time stream, and can only have informed him within the context of this episode, as none of them had those reminder eye patches.

That whole marking the hand thing is stupid. YOU FORGET THEM AS SOON AS YOU LOOK AWAY. So you will look at yourself, and think why the fuck do i have felt tally marks on my arms?
You will not be able to remember its a reminder of an enemy you have no recognition of. The mark is not a photo of the silence, its just a mark, which means nothing without the power to remember what its for. The silence make you forget, therefore its a retarded system.

Why? If you know you're fighting an enemy which you can't remember after looking away from, then you must've decided to use the system of tallies before hand, this means you will know afterwards about the tally...

And I thought you forgot the encounter after looking away, not their existance. This means someone must've documented them, possibly through a camera or some shit like that. Then they wrote a book about them, an article or told the Doctor (it doesn't have to be a human who did it). Therefore DW knows about their existance, but can't remember any encounters so he doesn't know what they look like.

Sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick, I haven't watched the show, but this knowledge comes from someone who does and talks avidly about it.

If you forgot anytime that you encounter them, then it is not possible to retain any knowledge of their existence as you have no encounters to refer to. your theory doesn't quite hold water as none of that is alluded to in the show. The writers have potrayed the silence in a certain way, then had characters react in accord, however with massive floors. Adding your own post event theory to explain the floors, still doesn't remove the fact that the idea behind the silence makes no logical sense.

If the writers don't explain that there was some document, whereby a person while constantly watching the silence took a photograph and wrote something to make all aware, then as an audience we must assume it never happend.

granted that if you decided to make a tally system to let you know you were facing an unkown enemy before hand, it would let you know your facing one, but in the show they allude to the idea that the marks allow the characters to know they are facing the silence, which is wrong. They may be aware they are facing something unknown, and be ready to face something, but they cannot know they are facing the silence, as they have never met them in their own minds.

 

[repeating integers]

Sooo, I've never watched Dr Who before (Okay, I watched the one with the Autons in the department store and Rose, but I did't enjoy it and was pretty much reading through half of it...) and was going to watch Dr Who last night (mainly because it had Winston Churchill looking awesome with a pistol and numerous people with machineguns...) but didn't bother, mainly because I was on a roll on Battlefield 3, but also because I couldn't find the remote...

Would people here, A recommend me to watch that episode? And B recommend me a Matt Smith episode to start watching from.

I'd also recommend the episode "Dalek", from the first reboot series. One of the best episodes IMO (definitely the best Dalek-related episode).

 

[Vivi22]

-There are many ways of time travel bar TARDIS. Vortex manipulator?

It was already shown at the start of the season that the Silence had access to the same sort of time ship that originally appeared in the Lodger in series 5.

-Amy was kidnapped in 'Day of the Moon' by the Silence when she was exploring the old house. The Silence have time capsules ('The Lodger') seen in DotM.

She couldn't have been kidnapped then, but rather during the 3 months they spent running around the US determining the extent of the infiltration. She was already seeing Kovarian bleed through while in the orphanage. Not to mention that if she was 3 months pregnant by that time she would have most likely known and not thought she was mistaken. The reason she thought it was a mistake was that she had been a ganger for a while and wasn't showing any signs of being pregnant.

As to why the Silence would kidnap her ganger, I can't say for sure. Perhaps to draw the Doctor off of the trail since he was not only trying to stop the Silence, but also find River when she was still a child. I can't say for sure though.

 

[Axolotl]

I think it is time they took out of the hands of the Brits and gave it to some Americans who understand how sci-fi should work.

I think American writers have ruined enough of their own Sci-Fi series without trying to ruin ones from other countries.

 

[Plinglebob]

Okay, but would you recommend I watch the Wedding of River Song?

Not really as its the final to plot points that have been spread out through the series making it hard to follow.

 

[Kurai Angelo]

Just thought that this would interest those who think Moffat makes this stuff up as he goes along.

https://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/browse_thread/thread/7cd734f99a62ae98/c845f05e9b213df9?pli=1

Evidently he was having some thoughts on the series slightly in advance... BACK IN 1995.

EDIT Also this, https://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/browse_thread/thread/c5d105603a51785/2792a114c24c9d95#2792a114c24c9d95

Clearly Moffat had been thinking for a long time that the Doctor needed some action

 

[MrJKapowey]

Okay, but would you recommend I watch the Wedding of River Song?

Not really as its the final to plot points that have been spread out through the series making it hard to follow.

It really sort of requires watching the last two seasons, at least. Wedding of River Song is a season finale and has a lot of spoilers if you watch it before other episodes.

Darn, I watched it before reading all these replies telling me not to...

The answer is quite obviously Sebastian.

 

[ReservoirAngel]

I think it is time they took out of the hands of the Brits and gave it to some Americans who understand how sci-fi should work.

No. The Americans tried it once before and it didn't catch on. Look up the 1996 Doctor Who TV movie. It was decent, but it was too American and it failed. I mean, they were just clueless. They made the Doctor half-human and threw in a fucking car chase!

They had their chance at reviving the show and they fucked up. Then us Brits successfully brought it back and it's going well thus far. Just because you don't like the direction it's going in doesn't mean the Americans know any better. Hell, most Americans didn't even know about it until it became popular recently.

Besides, they'd just make it like Lost. And that was a fucking train wreck of confused, pseudo-cryptic randomness.

 

[Wedlock49]

But in series 4, just before River dies, Tennant's Doctor says;

"River, you know my name. You whispered my name in my ear. There's only one reason I would ever tell anyone my name. There's only one time I could?"

Continuity my friend.

In one episode it also shows River as Cleopatra but in that one she states she had a stand off with Cleopatra .... it all hurts the mind.

One minute she knows his name the next he didn't tell her.

They don't seem to have any form of continuity it all changes after a few episodes.

Only River does eventually know the Doctors name, in her first episode she tells 10 his name as proof she's trustworthy.

As I was saying, continuity.

One minute she does know it then he hasn't told her.

It all rests on how it goes from here into the next season and whether we get any explanation at all from points that seem to change every time Moffat eats a cookie.

We "think" River knows his name after watching that episode but nothing shown so far goes on to back to that up.

As I keep saying, there is no continuity. Moffat tried to do far too much and spread the plot far too thin which left a lot of holes.

You forget that the current River is not that River, that River is from further in the future and would know his name, the River we have now is not as old as the other one.

 

[Vault Citizen]

it is time they took out of the hands of the Brits and gave it to some Americans who understand how sci-fi should work.

Speaking as a Brit about what has become a part of our national heritage the Americans can have this show when they can prize it from our cold, dead hands. There is no way we would ever let it go.

*Sits infront of the rights to Doctor Who in a rocking chair, holding a shotgun and muttering under my breath about Americans*