Doctor Who Series 7-8: The Rings of Akhaten (SPOILERS)

[Atmos Duality]

I was actually wondering about that too now that you mention it. Since when did the Sonic Screwdriver become a Deus ex machina-o-matic? I mean, shit, from 2005-2010 (not sure about the classic series) all it could do was open locks, unlock computer systems, and maybe scan things. Now it can apparently hold up stone doors, hold back screaming aliens, and is basically a get out of shit free card.

Y'know, I wouldn't really mind seeing the Sonic Screwdriver evolve like that (it makes sense to improve on such tech over time if possible) if they actually established it. But I suppose that would mean the Doctor couldn't pull some new, unmentioned function out of his ass when he needs to use his magic wand to save the day.

It makes for convenient writing when they don't explain what it can do (and what it cannot).

I am not nearly enough of a Whovian to comment on the consistency from the classic series, but what I have seen suggests that it was limited primarily to opening and locking physical doors (and that not every door was vulnerable to the Sonic; he set off an alarm when in prison trying to tamper with one in Frontier in Space).

 

[Dr. Doomsduck]

I'm a little bit on the fence with this one... I liked it, superficially. I can overlook the glaring deus-ex machina use of the screwdriver and even the human spirit bit, hell, I had no problem with the cop-out that was Power of Three. I do like Clara, again, superficially. She's a nice, fun gal and all that, but I dunno, I feel like she hasn't actually stood still long enough to develop a personality. It's a problem that Amy had too, but less so.

I do think it's time for Moffat to move on. All in all, I liked him better than RTD, but he seems to be running low on interesting stuff nowadays. Also, the whole mid-season break thing has got to stop. It's bad enough that Sherlock's been delayed, but you know, at least they had that whole hobbit excuse.

Captcha: give or take. That sounds about right yeah.

 

[Smashingpass]

Not a terrible episode. Not a great one though. Far from the greatest episode of the 'initiating the new companion into space' episode, but better than the Space Whale episode. I did enjoy seeing some aliens who were just there, and not invading/central to the episode. Makes the who-niverse feel bigger.

2. Why did this episode feel like an attack on religion?

Didn't come across like that to me. I quite liked the Doctor saying "It's a nice story". After, all that's they amount to at the end of the day. Stories from the Greek Pantheon, such as Dionysus being born from Zeus' thigh. A tall tale from Thailand tells of tale of an ocean of milk being churned by demons. A Middle-Eastern tribe said that Woman come from a man's rib. Nice stories.

 

[Spacewolf]

I was actually wondering about that too now that you mention it. Since when did the Sonic Screwdriver become a Deus ex machina-o-matic? I mean, shit, from 2005-2010 (not sure about the classic series) all it could do was open locks, unlock computer systems, and maybe scan things. Now it can apparently hold up stone doors, hold back screaming aliens, and is basically a get out of shit free card.

Y'know, I wouldn't really mind seeing the Sonic Screwdriver evolve like that (it makes sense to improve on such tech over time if possible) if they actually established it. But I suppose that would mean the Doctor couldn't pull some new, unmentioned function out of his ass when he needs to use his magic wand to save the day.

It makes for convenient writing when they don't explain what it can do (and what it cannot).

I am not nearly enough of a Whovian to comment on the consistency from the classic series, but what I have seen suggests that it was limited primarily to opening and locking physical doors (and that not every door was vulnerable to the Sonic; he set off an alarm when in prison trying to tamper with one in Frontier in Space).

For the aliens i just figured it was canceling out their sonic based attacks with it's own vibrations and for the door he did say it was opened by some acoustic lock thing, the whole dropping thing was presumably the screwdriver trying to keep up with the changing frequencies and failing little by little.

 

[SuperSamio64]

I dunno, I thought it was great up until the point when they went to the pyramid, it looked great - A variety of cool-looking, convincing aliens, and a sense of culture too. Something that peturbed me slightly was the fact that the Doctor and Clara were at least partially responsible for destroying a sun, yet there were no consequences. Not only are everyone on the seven planets probably going to die (I mean, I'm guessing they're at least slightly self sufficient, they seemed quite spaceship-y and there was some kind of system-wide atmosphere hence breathing in space) but they also literally killed (a) God in front of thousands of worshippers. No one else was there to hear about the whole 'space parasite' thing so it's basically like if there was actually a Second Coming and then somebody blew up Jesus.

 

[Quaxar]

One thing that bothers me...

How can a star be alive? Secondly, how will the seven worlds now survive without a star?

Remember "42"? Ten and Martha? Burn with me? That was a sentient sun too so yeah... not too far off.

And I'm afraid I have to agree with many, that was a hellofalot Oswin-centered at the end. The deus-ex-machina screwdriver I don't mind that much, though I do think it ruins the elegance of the solutions if all you do is point it at stuff but the leaf thing...

... let me say it in annoying but brilliant Tennant gifs!
At first I was like
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljs8u9rmJA1qaosiv.gif
but then I was like
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljs9yp3f7o1qaosiv.gifhttp://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5yofrshd21rriqg9.gif

 

[Atmos Duality]

For the aliens i just figured it was canceling out their sonic based attacks with it's own vibrations and for the door he did say it was opened by some acoustic lock thing, the whole dropping thing was presumably the screwdriver trying to keep up with the changing frequencies and failing little by little.

I'm all for thinking more deeply about a work, but anytime I have to rationalize a potential plot hole, I never walk away feeling better about it. Maybe that's just me.

It's kind of like a good mystery story vs a bad mystery.
The good mystery forces the audience to think logically but gives them sufficient evidence to solve the mystery definitively.
The bad mystery intentionally withholds information from the audience to keep them guessing because it shrouds the plot in total ambiguity.

The bad mystery can pull "Clue-style" (movie) potential multiple endings out of its ass because of that ambiguity.
(I'm pretty sure Clue was lampshading that aspect a bit. So did "Murder by Death", and that was far more blunt in its mockery of bad mystery writing, but I'm going astray...)

 

[Navvan]

*sigh*

It started out good, but then (much like the first episode, actually) it devolved into poorly explained nonsense and the Doctor did something that SHOULD have had enormous ramifications but inexplicably didn't. (If you're curious, I'm referring to the fact that in the first episode, the Doctor murders literally hundreds of people and doesn't even feel bad about it, and then allows the thing that forced him to murder hundreds of people to escape without even making the slightest attempt to find out what it was)

Look, I'm willing to overlook the absolute pointlessness of the monster in the glass cube. I'm willing to overlook a random song somehow keeping a giant psychic parasite asleep. I'm even OK with the song inexplicably ceasing to work for no apparent reason. But some things about this episode reeeeeally stretch my tolerance for bullshit.

In this case, Clara defeating the Psychic Vampire with some multiverse-style nonsense. If the leaf represents not only her memories of what happened, but also every possibility that didn't happen (no idea how that works, by the way) then doesn't the same principle apply to literally every other memory the thing has absorbed? What makes the leaf so special?

And also, why is it not a big deal that seven planets no longer have a sun? It even shows that everything has gone dark. Seriously, that is fucking GAPING plot hole.

I was a lot happier when it looked like the Doctor would defeat it just by letting it read his mind knowing it would explode from too much unadulterated Badass. THAT makes enough sense to me for me to accept it.

I know Dr. Who has always been ridiculous, but it's always had some kind of internal consistency. If they were going to have a platoon of space rhinos raiding a hospital on the moon, the actually took the time to explain how that happens. Nowadays, it seems like the writers just say "It's Doctor Who, it's never made any sense! Just throw in a speech about the HUMAN SPIRIT and we're good!"

You've seem to have missed a few things that may clear up some the confusion.

1. It wasn't a sun and it was never referred to as the sun within that system. The Doctor explicitly states that it is a planet, and that the religion says it is the planet from which all life in the universe originates.

2. The Doctor also implicitly states that the song doesn't actually do anything. Hence why the girl was not at fault for getting the song "wrong". It just so happened to be the time in that beings life cycle to feed.

3. The leaf thing can be interpreted several ways. The most straightforward way is that the leaf had the psychic imprint from her and her father about both the memories of Clara's mother, but also the possible life her mother could have lead. Clara and her father obsessed over the leaf and that possible life in their grief, and thus there was an infinite amount of "stories" stored in it. Memories don't have a psychic imprint, and the creature never tried to absorb an object with that type of psychic imprint before.

 

[Little Woodsman]

I was actually wondering about that too now that you mention it. Since when did the Sonic Screwdriver become a Deus ex machina-o-matic? I mean, shit, from 2005-2010 (not sure about the classic series) all it could do was open locks, unlock computer systems, and maybe scan things. Now it can apparently hold up stone doors, hold back screaming aliens, and is basically a get out of shit free card.

Y'know, I wouldn't really mind seeing the Sonic Screwdriver evolve like that (it makes sense to improve on such tech over time if possible) if they actually established it. But I suppose that would mean the Doctor couldn't pull some new, unmentioned function out of his ass when he needs to use his magic wand to save the day.

It makes for convenient writing when they don't explain what it can do (and what it cannot).

I am not nearly enough of a Whovian to comment on the consistency from the classic series, but what I have seen suggests that it was limited primarily to opening and locking physical doors (and that not every door was vulnerable to the Sonic; he set off an alarm when in prison trying to tamper with one in Frontier in Space).

It's funny but the sonic screwdriver started with the second Doctor, who pulled it out to demonstrate that he had access to
alien/future tech. It did exactly two things. It took screws out. It put screws in. That's it.
When I first became a Dr. Who fan in 1980 or so, episodes were harder to get than now (keep in mind that I'm referring to the situation here in America) but there were a *lot* of books available. In many of the books, the writers explained that in "using the Sonic Screwdriver to open locks" what the Doctor was actually doing was taking part of the lock casing apart--by removing bolts or screws--to manipulate the internal lock mechanism.

 

[Albino Boo]

Once again, the Sonic Screwdriver is just one click away from being an omni-phasor.
I didn't really get anything out of this episode except a mild headache from the end of the plot.
But at least the Doctor isn't acting like a whiny *****.

I was actually wondering about that too now that you mention it. Since when did the Sonic Screwdriver become a Deus ex machina-o-matic? I mean, shit, from 2005-2010 (not sure about the classic series) all it could do was open locks, unlock computer systems, and maybe scan things. Now it can apparently hold up stone doors, hold back screaming aliens, and is basically a get out of shit free card.

Its an old problem. The sonic screw driver got more and more powerful throughout the 70s until they wrote it out sometime in the 5th Doctor's run. Its not the only thing they had the problem with, k9 a robot dog, got all Deus ex machina until they wrote it out in the early 80s.

 

[Hazy992]

Meh. It felt rushed and the ending was a complete cop out as per usual ¬_¬

''This alien star monster is going to kill us all!''
''Don't worry I'll give it all of the feels!''

And what the hell at the end of the episode the alien sun got destroyed and everyone is just kind of fine with it.

I thought that was weird too. Sure they're fine with it now but I doubt they'll be too happy when they all freeze to death.

 

[Robot Number V]

*sigh*

It started out good, but then (much like the first episode, actually) it devolved into poorly explained nonsense and the Doctor did something that SHOULD have had enormous ramifications but inexplicably didn't. (If you're curious, I'm referring to the fact that in the first episode, the Doctor murders literally hundreds of people and doesn't even feel bad about it, and then allows the thing that forced him to murder hundreds of people to escape without even making the slightest attempt to find out what it was)

Look, I'm willing to overlook the absolute pointlessness of the monster in the glass cube. I'm willing to overlook a random song somehow keeping a giant psychic parasite asleep. I'm even OK with the song inexplicably ceasing to work for no apparent reason. But some things about this episode reeeeeally stretch my tolerance for bullshit.

In this case, Clara defeating the Psychic Vampire with some multiverse-style nonsense. If the leaf represents not only her memories of what happened, but also every possibility that didn't happen (no idea how that works, by the way) then doesn't the same principle apply to literally every other memory the thing has absorbed? What makes the leaf so special?

And also, why is it not a big deal that seven planets no longer have a sun? It even shows that everything has gone dark. Seriously, that is fucking GAPING plot hole.

I was a lot happier when it looked like the Doctor would defeat it just by letting it read his mind knowing it would explode from too much unadulterated Badass. THAT makes enough sense to me for me to accept it.

I know Dr. Who has always been ridiculous, but it's always had some kind of internal consistency. If they were going to have a platoon of space rhinos raiding a hospital on the moon, the actually took the time to explain how that happens. Nowadays, it seems like the writers just say "It's Doctor Who, it's never made any sense! Just throw in a speech about the HUMAN SPIRIT and we're good!"

You've seem to have missed a few things that may clear up some the confusion.

1. It wasn't a sun and it was never referred to as the sun within that system. The Doctor explicitly states that it is a planet, and that the religion says it is the planet from which all life in the universe originates.

2. The Doctor also implicitly states that the song doesn't actually do anything. Hence why the girl was not at fault for getting the song "wrong". It just so happened to be the time in that beings life cycle to feed.

3. The leaf thing can be interpreted several ways. The most straightforward way is that the leaf had the psychic imprint from her and her father about both the memories of Clara's mother, but also the possible life her mother could have lead. Clara and her father obsessed over the leaf and that possible life in their grief, and thus there was an infinite amount of "stories" stored in it. Memories don't have a psychic imprint, and the creature never tried to absorb an object with that type of psychic imprint before.

OK, that makes a bit more sense. I still think the leaf bit is iffy at best, and I'm still pretty confused about the role of the Cube Monster. I gather that the cube was put there to keep it from sending some kind of signal to the parasite to wake it up but...Why? How? What IS the monster? How does it wake up the parasite? WHY does it wake up the parasite? Sorry, but this episode still had some pretty obvious holes in the story.

 

[BrotherRool]

I loved the visuals and the music and the tone... the plot not so much. I think what didn't work was the threat of the Old God was never really established. We never knew what he could do exactly and to what extent. It caused problems because it left me thinking if the God consumes the memories of a race to stay asleep, surely it would crunch the Doctors memories? And I assumed the Doctor would/did lose all his memories which confused me. The resolution would have been nice (can't finish eating a what if, but we didn't know enough of the rules of the Old God for it to make sense)

I love the idea of a currency that's actually worth something though. That was a nice detail

I still think we need a new Doctor, like right now. Someone with a completely different personality to make the series fresh again.

The Ninth Doctor got one season, the Tenth Doctor got three and the Eleventh Doctor is also getting three or maybe even four seasons. I liked the Eleventh for one season, but now I just want to punch him everytime I see his face.

EDIT: Completely forgot to add the actual, you know, words that I was quoting you to add =D

I definitely wouldn't mind a change of face from Matt Smith now, I don't think he's been a bad doctor, but I think he's a Doctor who hasn't shown any place where he can go. He was the lighter silly version to contrast with the serious business Doctors before but it felt like David Tennant had an arc to follow and character to evolve, but Smith is stuck as the relief. (I mean he's flirting with another girl and we were getting 'crush' signals even though he's meant to be married. Thats warning signs of struggling to know what to do right there)

But going right now wouldn't be right, it should be built up properly and in its right place. Not rushed

 

[salfiert]

my theory about the leaf is that it was just cause it was something with Clara's memories, her being a space time anomaly, the strange nature of the memories is what destroys the thing, the doctor even for living hundreds of years is still a natural phenomenon, clara on the other hand not so much. shame the show didn't go with this angle, would have made more sense(as much as any of it made sense) and tied in with the overarching plot.

 

[Da Orky Man]

Did anyone notice at the end when, when she got the ring back. Isn't this essentially 'Hey, you just saved an entire solar system, the lives of billions of people and defeated an eldar god. As a reward here's the deposit on your space moped back'. Maybe not the best reward...

As you can probably guess, not a fan of this episode. The defeated said eldar god by basically yelling at it for five minutes, throwing a leaf at it and bam! BIg bad defeated. Too much deus ex machina for me.

 

[Remus]

If this were a different take on The Satan Pit I'd be ok with it. But they destroyed a star! A whole star, no light, no gravitational pull, nothing. Any 8 yr old can tell you that without the sun we would not exist. In that regard this does not even pass for children's entertainment. If the show ended with the parasite going dormant it might at least make sense, bad guy beaten, multiple planets still operating as planets do without becoming drifting cryogenic freezers for billions of aliens.
My verdict:

 

[Thaluikhain]

Its an old problem. The sonic screw driver got more and more powerful throughout the 70s until they wrote it out sometime in the 5th Doctor's run. Its not the only thing they had the problem with, k9 a robot dog, got all Deus ex machina until they wrote it out in the early 80s.

The Visitation. The writer didn't do it on purpose, though, thought the Doctor had loads of spares like in Matt Smith's first story. The effect of taking the screwdriver away was the Doctor spent an episode locked up somewhere over and over. This happened before when he'd lost the screwdriver, or come to un-sonicable doors. They brought it back to put an end to this, but introduced deadlocks to bring it back.

K9 spent much of his time in bits even before they got rid of him.

 

[Navvan]

*sigh*

It started out good, but then (much like the first episode, actually) it devolved into poorly explained nonsense and the Doctor did something that SHOULD have had enormous ramifications but inexplicably didn't. (If you're curious, I'm referring to the fact that in the first episode, the Doctor murders literally hundreds of people and doesn't even feel bad about it, and then allows the thing that forced him to murder hundreds of people to escape without even making the slightest attempt to find out what it was)

Look, I'm willing to overlook the absolute pointlessness of the monster in the glass cube. I'm willing to overlook a random song somehow keeping a giant psychic parasite asleep. I'm even OK with the song inexplicably ceasing to work for no apparent reason. But some things about this episode reeeeeally stretch my tolerance for bullshit.

In this case, Clara defeating the Psychic Vampire with some multiverse-style nonsense. If the leaf represents not only her memories of what happened, but also every possibility that didn't happen (no idea how that works, by the way) then doesn't the same principle apply to literally every other memory the thing has absorbed? What makes the leaf so special?

And also, why is it not a big deal that seven planets no longer have a sun? It even shows that everything has gone dark. Seriously, that is fucking GAPING plot hole.

I was a lot happier when it looked like the Doctor would defeat it just by letting it read his mind knowing it would explode from too much unadulterated Badass. THAT makes enough sense to me for me to accept it.

I know Dr. Who has always been ridiculous, but it's always had some kind of internal consistency. If they were going to have a platoon of space rhinos raiding a hospital on the moon, the actually took the time to explain how that happens. Nowadays, it seems like the writers just say "It's Doctor Who, it's never made any sense! Just throw in a speech about the HUMAN SPIRIT and we're good!"

You've seem to have missed a few things that may clear up some the confusion.

1. It wasn't a sun and it was never referred to as the sun within that system. The Doctor explicitly states that it is a planet, and that the religion says it is the planet from which all life in the universe originates.

2. The Doctor also implicitly states that the song doesn't actually do anything. Hence why the girl was not at fault for getting the song "wrong". It just so happened to be the time in that beings life cycle to feed.

3. The leaf thing can be interpreted several ways. The most straightforward way is that the leaf had the psychic imprint from her and her father about both the memories of Clara's mother, but also the possible life her mother could have lead. Clara and her father obsessed over the leaf and that possible life in their grief, and thus there was an infinite amount of "stories" stored in it. Memories don't have a psychic imprint, and the creature never tried to absorb an object with that type of psychic imprint before.

OK, that makes a bit more sense. I still think the leaf bit is iffy at best, and I'm still pretty confused about the role of the Cube Monster. I gather that the cube was put there to keep it from sending some kind of signal to the parasite to wake it up but...Why? How? What IS the monster? How does it wake up the parasite? WHY does it wake up the parasite? Sorry, but this episode still had some pretty obvious holes in the story.

I agree the leaf thing is iffy and open to interpretation. Another possibility I've considered is that it relates to Clara apparently being a stable in space time, but that contains a bit more conjecture than what I consider the more straight forward case.

The Cube Monster was as The Doctor put it "The Alarm Clock". It was meant to consume the young girl in the ritual to and presumably transfer that energy to the Planet-being. Analogous to hitting the snooze button. If that ritual was not performed its purpose then turned to waking the planet-being so it could start sucking memories by force. It was in the cube because it made thematic sense in accordance to the religion. That is the Cube monster was supposed to be a ancestor deity, and you generally put protective casing around stuff that is sacred. In additional to the reasons that come with encasing something you are afraid of waking up and destroying your civilization. The monster itself was likely created by, or is an extension of the planet-being and has a psychic connection to it which is also how it would transfer the energy it would drain from the queen.

Doctor Who is never very clear on explanations, and rightfully so as that would take a lot of the fun out of it. You can easily start poking holes into the entire continuity if you so desire, and I can attempt rationalize many of them. However to me that isn't really what DW is about and it never has been. It's all about the ride; not the nuts and bolts. Some continuity and explanation is certainly necessary, but the degree of explanation you seem to want this episode to provide is rather inconsistent with what most DW episodes are like.

 

[Navvan]

If this were a different take on The Satan Pit I'd be ok with it. But they destroyed a star! A whole star, no light, no gravitational pull, nothing. Any 8 yr old can tell you that without the sun we would not exist. In that regard this does not even pass for children's entertainment. If the show ended with the parasite going dormant it might at least make sense, bad guy beaten, multiple planets still operating as planets do without becoming drifting cryogenic freezers for billions of aliens.
My verdict:

I can't believe so many people missed the straight up remark from The Doctor about it being a PLANET. It was at the beginning of the episode when the Doctor was explaining to Clara about the religion of the people in that system, and how all life originated from... that planet.

 

[Drops a Sweet Katana]

Didn't like it. For me, it had the same problem the last episode had: it felt like it ended far too quickly, as if it had a first and second act, but not a third. This is probably due to the pacing being too fast for the kind of episode they were making. I think it should have slowed down and spent more time building suspense with the vigils looking for the little girl, and explaining how things worked.

The ending was also pretty poor. Killing the ancient psychic parasite star with all the feels stored in a fucking leaf? Really? I felt it should have been killed off when the Doctor gave it his memories, as it seems to make more sense for the memories of a timeless, nigh-omnipotent timelord to be the thing that kills it off, rather than whatever was going on with the leaf.

That being said, I did like the aliens they showed. Shame they didn't do anything with them.