Does anyone else find Bioshock Infinite's propaganda posters offensive?

[Xanadu84]

I think your missing the satire. Bioshock 1 was basically a scathing criticism of extreme Objectivism, demonstrating the dangers of completely unbridled laissez faire economic policies, an extreme sense of personal responsibility, and hardline positions taken straight out of Atlas Shrugged. Bioshock 2 went for the balancing act, and demonstrated the dangers of extreme collectivism, a sort of insane but fascinating straw man from the nightmares of the McCarthy era. Bioshock Infinate gives the same treatment to Jeffersonian democracy, albeit perhaps a slightly more contemporary one. It is taking a bunch of criticisms of America today (And every system of the government in the world merits a lot of criticism), and deconstructing the perversion of ideals with the failures of people in there execution. I understand your concern: Anti-American sentiment does a terrible job of undercutting American values that are truly and genuinely awe-inspiring. But I think that this Propaganda actualy strengthens the roots of American ideology by casting the negative consequences of our political system in a harsh light.

 

[kidd25]

you must understand that these people thought they were above the rest, the saw Themistocles better than everyone and if you weren't like them then you are beneath them, it kinda like nazi but before they happen. It also seem like they had a different set of rules then america at the time.

Themstocles? as in the Athenian general that fought in the Persian Invasion circa 500BCE?

What does he have to do with the Bioshock games at all?

oh sorry i must have typed that and somehow, i meant to say " they saw themselves better than everyone-" yeah that was...wow...

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

A) As the O.P. pointed out, the eugenics had to do with mental retardation, not race.

B) The average American is not bigoted or stupid.

Firstly, even if it had nothing to do with race, that doesn't make a difference. The issue is with depriving innocent people of their freedoms. And secondly, you're wrong. It very much [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States] had to do with race [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Restriction_League]. (In fact, the Immigration Restriction League is pretty much exactly what the OP is offended by, except that it happened in real life)

As for B. That's a very vague statement. By definition, the average American is average, and would be bigoted and stupid when compared to a very tolerant, intelligent American. 'Average' is a meaningless term unless you provide a baseline of comparison. But that's besides the point. I'm talking in terms of raw historical fact.

 

[SinorKirby]

No, over the years that Columbia was lost, its inhabitants wanted to keep out foreigners more and more, and they created the posters you showed. Originally, the city was meant to promote peace and unity, but again, the views of the city's inhabitants changed drastically once the city became lost to the rest of the world.

Heck, I think it became lost to the rest of the world because its citizens didn't like outsiders.

So no, I don't find them offensive in the slightest.

 

[y1fella]

The purpose of Columbia, the flying city in Bioshock Infinite, is to show the greatness Jeffersonian Democracy can achieve, which is an interesting idea, but the propaganda posters scattered around the city misrepresents it's values. Here's the main culprit:

Spoiler

First off most of the United States founders were Freemasons or at least approved of Freemason beliefes, and for the most part Deists. Freemasonry encouraged equality among all groups of people no matter their backround or religion, so having a picture of a founder refusing people entrance into the US simply because they're foreign as well as holding Christianity up as the prefered religion misrepresents American values, both in the 1700s and 1900s.
And to further examplify my point I want to refer to the poem "The New Colossus" which was written in 1883, a point in time very close to when Infinite takes place (basically the guilded age), and was engraved on the Statue of Liberty (which was pretty much a huge welcome sign to foreigners) in 1903.


Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Now take another look at that propaganda poster, does it really represent American views or values? It obviously dosen't, infact it's an insult. It's a perversion of what the US really did stand for. I can understand making a modern political commentary about immigration even if I don't agree with the stance; just don't act like it's our founder's fault.


I also want to point out how inconsistant an idea it is to have a flying city designed to show off and encourage Jeffersonian Democracy to other nations around the globe, but have posters telling those people they're cretans and to stay out. Columbia might as well be a giant flying middle finger.. and posters like this certainly dosn't help:

Spoiler

I understand there was a eugenics movement in the United States some time in the 20s, but it's purpose was to breed out the crippled and mentally ill, basically burdens of the state, not promote a particular race; that was just the Nazies. So once again the game is wrongly portraying the US as racist.

I know the US has been involved in some questionable activities both today and through out history, but to miscontrue us as total bad guys and disregard the strides in equality and humanity America has made is just looking at things in black and white and if anything, it's a sign that the creators of this game are victims of anti-American propaganda themselves.

Actually there was a point in the eugenics movement where they payed African American people to allow themselves to be sterilized. Eugenics definitely had racist connotations. Plus I think the point is it's a perversion of American (or western) ideals. Without realising it they became exactly what they were opposed to.
It was just after I wrote that that I realized I don't care about this game and actually have no particular reason to defend it.
Meh...
In for a penny in for a pound. Time to get my fan boy on.

 

[Hammartroll]

I never justified it

Did you actually just try to justify forced eugenics?

Are you fucking serious?

I never justified it

 

[Grathius22]

You do realize it is supposed to be offensive?

The people in the game are very racist, and xenophobic. That's part of the whole reason the city fell. Hur durrr.

 

[Hammartroll]

I understand there was a eugenics movement in the United States some time in the 20s, but it's purpose was to breed out the crippled and mentally ill, basically burdens of the state, not promote a particular race; that was just the Nazies. So once again the game is wrongly portraying the US as racist.

On the contrary I was much more offended by what you wrote here than anything else. Maybe it's a mistake in tone or I'm reading into it too much, but it sounds like your advocating eugenics as long as it's only attacking the physically and mentally handicapped.

That's uh ... really fucking ignorant. Not to mention the entire point eugenics doesn't make sense from a objective "advance society at any cost" point of view is it simply doesn't work. Removing the ability to breed or live of what is considered unsatisfactory for a society may be stopping crucial adaptation that could advance a field or physical form.

I must have expressed myself wrong, no I don't think eugenics of any kind is a good idea, infact it sickens me to think that this actually happened in America.

What annoyed me was that they had to make a Nazi connection with the blue eyes, rather than just saying what really did happen.
Although I have to admit that I originally thought that race or skin color had nothing to do with America's eugenics plot, but people have posted enough info to convince me that those were factors to some extent.

you learn something new everyday

 

[RelexCryo]

A) As the O.P. pointed out, the eugenics had to do with mental retardation, not race.

B) The average American is not bigoted or stupid.

Firstly, even if it had nothing to do with race, that doesn't make a difference. The issue is with depriving innocent people of their freedoms. And secondly, you're wrong. It very much [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States] had to do with race [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Restriction_League]. (In fact, the Immigration Restriction League is pretty much exactly what the OP is offended by, except that it happened in real life)

As for B. That's a very vague statement. By definition, the average American is average, and would be bigoted and stupid when compared to a very tolerant, intelligent American. 'Average' is a meaningless term unless you provide a baseline of comparison. But that's besides the point. I'm talking in terms of raw historical fact.

I'm sorry, you're right.

 

[rmb1983]

Now take another look at that propaganda poster, does it really represent American views or values? It obviously dosen't, infact it's an insult. It's a perversion of what the US really did stand for. I can understand making a modern political commentary about immigration even if I don't agree with the stance; just don't act like it's our founder's fault.

Absolutely not. You really have to take into account the game's setting (post-Rapture, etc) when you try and dissect something like that. I bolded your own words for easy reference to showcase where the point of the propaganda posters is running away from you.

They're not accusing any Founders, leaders or anyone else for the given point of view, they're simply making an allegory to a hundred little "What If?"s. The game's entire setting is meant to be a distortion of all the values and ideals of current everyday life (regardless of country and culture) because it's a post-apocalyptic setting; the point is to poke at the collapse of society, not make sense of it.

You do realize it is supposed to be offensive?

The people in the game are very racist, and xenophobic. That's part of the whole reason the city fell.

Exactly.

 

[Hammartroll]

I think your missing the satire. Bioshock 1 was basically a scathing criticism of extreme Objectivism, demonstrating the dangers of completely unbridled laissez faire economic policies, an extreme sense of personal responsibility, and hardline positions taken straight out of Atlas Shrugged. Bioshock 2 went for the balancing act, and demonstrated the dangers of extreme collectivism, a sort of insane but fascinating straw man from the nightmares of the McCarthy era. Bioshock Infinate gives the same treatment to Jeffersonian democracy, albeit perhaps a slightly more contemporary one. It is taking a bunch of criticisms of America today (And every system of the government in the world merits a lot of criticism), and deconstructing the perversion of ideals with the failures of people in there execution. I understand your concern: Anti-American sentiment does a terrible job of undercutting American values that are truly and genuinely awe-inspiring. But I think that this Propaganda actualy strengthens the roots of American ideology by casting the negative consequences of our political system in a harsh light.

Thanks for the thoughts. I should probably keep a cooler head about these things. And your probably right, as long as the game dosn't go OMG AMERICA HAZ DONE BAD THINGS! without mentioning the upside to having this kind of free society, then this game's critisism very well may be a good thing.

And thanks to everyone else who bothered to post their thoughts, whether they be negative or not

 

[theheroofaction]

The whole point of Columbia is to represent a crapsaccharine world [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsaccharineWorld] (click link at own risk)

Or for those of you who don't want to read a thesis on that, the concept is simple: To create a world that looks great, (in this case columbia) but can easily be realized as a shitstain on close examination.

Case in point, it's supposed to be offensive once you start reading the signs

 

[the_bearpelt]

I'm extremely glad you've mentioned this. I found this both encouraging that someone agrees with me on America-bashing and that you're very well-thought.
I hadn't seen the mock posters until just now, but I agree with you. They do seem to be attempting to misconstrue America. America may have had its problems, but we are the most free country on the planet. The reason many countries hate us is largely because they are jealous. I met one girl who I believe was Mongolian, and I asked her why she came to the US, and she replied, "Because America is the Land of Dreams." People still call us that, because we provide more opportunities for equal treatment than any other country.
Also, I believe our Founding Fathers originally wanted to have equal rights for non-whites in America, but for some reason, couldn't. I can't remember the full details.

 

[Saelune]

Uh....is it offensive to what it is saying it means? Maybe. But Bioshock is about taking an ideal to an extreme extreme (building a whole new civilization all about it) and likely warped significantly. So is it offensive within the world? Maybe. Is it offensive outside the game? No.

 

[Hammartroll]

No, over the years that Columbia was lost, its inhabitants wanted to keep out foreigners more and more, and they created the posters you showed. Originally, the city was meant to promote peace and unity, but again, the views of the city's inhabitants changed drastically once the city became lost to the rest of the world.

Heck, I think it became lost to the rest of the world because its citizens didn't like outsiders.

So no, I don't find them offensive in the slightest.

See, I didn't know the city eventually lost all relations with the American mainland. I thought the city was supposed to be a shining example of American society, created and maintained by the American government, and went to hell as a result of our societie's flaws.

If the downfall of the city is infact a result of them turning their back on the rest of America and succumbing to corruption and bad leadership and whatnot, then it does make sense that the posters portray a perverted form of what America was founded on.

Infact, come to think of it, this does seem to be a very good commentary on modern day America ^-^

 

[katsumoto03]

The point.

You have missed it.

 

[King Toasty]

The city is SUPPOSED to be racist, xenophobic and a bit contradictory. Yeah, it's the point to be offensive.

 

[pablogonzalez]

The purpose of Columbia, the flying city in Bioshock Infinite, is to show the greatness Jeffersonian Democracy can achieve, which is an interesting idea, but the propaganda posters scattered around the city misrepresents it's values. Here's the main culprit:

Spoiler

First off most of the United States founders were Freemasons or at least approved of Freemason beliefes, and for the most part Deists. Freemasonry encouraged equality among all groups of people no matter their backround or religion, so having a picture of a founder refusing people entrance into the US simply because they're foreign as well as holding Christianity up as the prefered religion misrepresents American values, both in the 1700s and 1900s.
And to further examplify my point I want to refer to the poem "The New Colossus" which was written in 1883, a point in time very close to when Infinite takes place (basically the guilded age), and was engraved on the Statue of Liberty (which was pretty much a huge welcome sign to foreigners) in 1903.


Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Now take another look at that propaganda poster, does it really represent American views or values? It obviously dosen't, infact it's an insult. It's a perversion of what the US really did stand for. I can understand making a modern political commentary about immigration even if I don't agree with the stance; just don't act like it's our founder's fault.


I also want to point out how inconsistant an idea it is to have a flying city designed to show off and encourage Jeffersonian Democracy to other nations around the globe, but have posters telling those people they're cretans and to stay out. Columbia might as well be a giant flying middle finger.. and posters like this certainly dosn't help:

Spoiler

I understand there was a eugenics movement in the United States some time in the 20s, but it's purpose was to breed out the crippled and mentally ill, basically burdens of the state, not promote a particular race; that was just the Nazies. So once again the game is wrongly portraying the US as racist.

I know the US has been involved in some questionable activities both today and through out history, but to miscontrue us as total bad guys and disregard the strides in equality and humanity America has made is just looking at things in black and white and if anything, it's a sign that the creators of this game are victims of anti-American propaganda themselves.

Bioshock infinite is based on a city made during a period where the feeling of American Exceptionalism was high so The posters are made to promote the American Exceptionalism feeling at the time.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

Well there goes my quota of epicfacepalm for today...