Does anyone else find Bioshock Infinite's propaganda posters offensive?

[the_bearpelt]

I'm extremely glad you've mentioned this. I found this both encouraging that someone agrees with me on America-bashing and that you're very well-thought.
I hadn't seen the mock posters until just now, but I agree with you. They do seem to be attempting to misconstrue America. America may have had its problems, but we are the most free country on the planet. The reason many countries hate us is largely because they are jealous. I met one girl who I believe was Mongolian, and I asked her why she came to the US, and she replied, "Because America is the Land of Dreams." People still call us that, because we provide more opportunities for equal treatment than any other country.
Also, I believe our Founding Fathers originally wanted to have equal rights for non-whites in America, but for some reason, couldn't. I can't remember the full details.

 

[Saelune]

Uh....is it offensive to what it is saying it means? Maybe. But Bioshock is about taking an ideal to an extreme extreme (building a whole new civilization all about it) and likely warped significantly. So is it offensive within the world? Maybe. Is it offensive outside the game? No.

 

[Hammartroll]

No, over the years that Columbia was lost, its inhabitants wanted to keep out foreigners more and more, and they created the posters you showed. Originally, the city was meant to promote peace and unity, but again, the views of the city's inhabitants changed drastically once the city became lost to the rest of the world.

Heck, I think it became lost to the rest of the world because its citizens didn't like outsiders.

So no, I don't find them offensive in the slightest.

See, I didn't know the city eventually lost all relations with the American mainland. I thought the city was supposed to be a shining example of American society, created and maintained by the American government, and went to hell as a result of our societie's flaws.

If the downfall of the city is infact a result of them turning their back on the rest of America and succumbing to corruption and bad leadership and whatnot, then it does make sense that the posters portray a perverted form of what America was founded on.

Infact, come to think of it, this does seem to be a very good commentary on modern day America ^-^

 

[katsumoto03]

The point.

You have missed it.

 

[King Toasty]

The city is SUPPOSED to be racist, xenophobic and a bit contradictory. Yeah, it's the point to be offensive.

 

[pablogonzalez]

The purpose of Columbia, the flying city in Bioshock Infinite, is to show the greatness Jeffersonian Democracy can achieve, which is an interesting idea, but the propaganda posters scattered around the city misrepresents it's values. Here's the main culprit:

Spoiler

First off most of the United States founders were Freemasons or at least approved of Freemason beliefes, and for the most part Deists. Freemasonry encouraged equality among all groups of people no matter their backround or religion, so having a picture of a founder refusing people entrance into the US simply because they're foreign as well as holding Christianity up as the prefered religion misrepresents American values, both in the 1700s and 1900s.
And to further examplify my point I want to refer to the poem "The New Colossus" which was written in 1883, a point in time very close to when Infinite takes place (basically the guilded age), and was engraved on the Statue of Liberty (which was pretty much a huge welcome sign to foreigners) in 1903.


Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Now take another look at that propaganda poster, does it really represent American views or values? It obviously dosen't, infact it's an insult. It's a perversion of what the US really did stand for. I can understand making a modern political commentary about immigration even if I don't agree with the stance; just don't act like it's our founder's fault.


I also want to point out how inconsistant an idea it is to have a flying city designed to show off and encourage Jeffersonian Democracy to other nations around the globe, but have posters telling those people they're cretans and to stay out. Columbia might as well be a giant flying middle finger.. and posters like this certainly dosn't help:

Spoiler

I understand there was a eugenics movement in the United States some time in the 20s, but it's purpose was to breed out the crippled and mentally ill, basically burdens of the state, not promote a particular race; that was just the Nazies. So once again the game is wrongly portraying the US as racist.

I know the US has been involved in some questionable activities both today and through out history, but to miscontrue us as total bad guys and disregard the strides in equality and humanity America has made is just looking at things in black and white and if anything, it's a sign that the creators of this game are victims of anti-American propaganda themselves.

Bioshock infinite is based on a city made during a period where the feeling of American Exceptionalism was high so The posters are made to promote the American Exceptionalism feeling at the time.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

Well there goes my quota of epicfacepalm for today...

 

[Guilherme Zoldan]

The city is supposed to be the incarnation of the american ideals of the time taken too far. It does parody the united states, but it uses exageration to do so.
About the whole thing with the forefathers being secularists, thats true. Doesnt mean the USA is not significanly culturaly dominated by christianity, specialy at the time the game is set.

 

[thirion1850]

snip

snop

You count the game as lies? It is fiction just as there is fiction showing that all Russians are still in love with Stalin. I am sure some of our Russian member will tell you they are not like the Russians in video games.

Spoiler: your name says troll am I obligated to accuse you of being one?

Right on cue. That porcupine is so freaking cute too, geez. x3

OT: Yeah... it's already been said I suppose - it's a dystopia in an extremist sense of that time and the views present during it. To connect it to now would be pretty hard considering the world changed vastly in 110~ years.

 

[Signa]

Fuck, if the OP hadn't pointed it out, I probably never would have noticed. Now my interest in the game is officially piqued, because before I couldn't give two shits about another Bioshock game. Now I see there actually is some of the thought going into this one is the same that made the original great.

 

[Nickompoop]

Don't mean to sound like a dick, but... it looks like you missed the point.

I second this. The point of the first poster is the serve as a satire about conservative Americans. I say conservatives because it seems to be advocating an extremely hardline conservative stance.

It is our holy duty to guard against the foreign hordes.

I could say this is the extreme immigration stance that current conservative politicians have taken in America (see: Arizona law). But I would only say that if I was some kind of cynic.

As for the second poster--it's mocking the McCarthyism of the Cold War and racism at the same time by blending the two. Quite clever, actually. This makes me look forward to the game even more.

 

[Hammartroll]

I'm extremely glad you've mentioned this. I found this both encouraging that someone agrees with me on America-bashing and that you're very well-thought.
I hadn't seen the mock posters until just now, but I agree with you. They do seem to be attempting to misconstrue America. America may have had its problems, but we are the most free country on the planet. The reason many countries hate us is largely because they are jealous. I met one girl who I believe was Mongolian, and I asked her why she came to the US, and she replied, "Because America is the Land of Dreams." People still call us that, because we provide more opportunities for equal treatment than any other country.
Also, I believe our Founding Fathers originally wanted to have equal rights for non-whites in America, but for some reason, couldn't. I can't remember the full details.

Thank you for being understanding. But after a day of being told it, I think I do understand I kinda missed the point(lol). I'm leaning more towords the idea now that the posters aren't really being serious in portraying American values or representing the developer's personal political feelings, but are more just a device to show how twisted the city of Columbia really is.
Problem is that I know for a fact that some of my friends are going to totally agree with the posters and believe that they make an intelligent statement about the current state of America just for the sake of hating on America, cause you know, that seems to be in style. They really should have more pride in being American, I mean, what's more awsome than being a bunch of ill equiped rebels fighting off the world's biggest empire? And yeah we all know that many of the founders owned slaves, but I think the idea of ending slavery may have been a bit ahead of it's time at that time. They just got done creating a nation with an unprecedented level of individual freedom; people need to give the founders a break. Plus the southern economy pretty much relied on slave labor to be profitable, all the way up to the civil war. I'm not justifing slavery, but southern poverty can be partially to blame for this. It was a very difficult problem to solve and trying to fix it right after the founding of the country just wouldn't have been an appropriate time.

 

[MrGalactus]

It's extremist propaganda in an extremist state. It's offensive, that's the point. Colombia is not America.

 

[Titan Buttons]

The game is more being realistic to its time frame and America during this era was a rasist country, just like most white dominated countries were.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I'm going to italicise this so you pay close attention, ok?

It's a game.

Ok? We all good?

 

[Chaos-Spider]

you must understand that these people thought they were above the rest, the saw Themistocles better than everyone and if you weren't like them then you are beneath them, it kinda like nazi but before they happen. It also seem like they had a different set of rules then america at the time.

Themstocles? as in the Athenian general that fought in the Persian Invasion circa 500BCE?

What does he have to do with the Bioshock games at all?

oh sorry i must have typed that and somehow, i meant to say " they saw themselves better than everyone-" yeah that was...wow...

I could still understand what you were trying to say in the sentence, but it is the most interesting typo that I have ever seen.

OT: Aren't the Bioshock game worlds basically a sci-fi version of different time periods in America's history as seen through an objectivist lens, with 1&2 being altered versions of the 50's and 60's while infinite is set in an earlier time period ranging from the 1860's to 1930's when such propaganda would have formed part of the accepted mindset?

 

[Gigano]

Oh no, a game series about failed philosophical utopias showing the ideals of the philosophy it deals with being misrepresented and twisted?

...wait? As in, accurately portraying what the whole thing is about?

Just how did anyone find this "offensive"?

...

And it's not like racism and the US don't mix anyway. Civil rights for racial minorities came through the courts (as they apparently have to do for all minorities in the US...), not through democratic means (which were instead used to pass "massive resistance" laws and such), so overall the American population haven't really showed much readiness to change in this regard. It's really something they should get to work on acknowledging, and if games can provide works of literary merit to be a part of that reflection, then all the better.

 

[Iwata]

Is this thread a joke? The U.S. still is, these days, one of the most nationalistic countries on Earth! The whole "proud to be an American" thing, coupled with the absolute disinterest in foreign cultures is a trademark of the U.S. in this day and age, and back then, when the U.S. was still miles behind most of the civilized world in terms of human rights, that poster was quite suitable for the overblown, caricature context it's supposed to represent.

So, no. It's not offensive. If anything, it accurately portrays the POV of a vast portion of the American public, then and even somewhat now.

 

[kidd25]

Is this thread a joke? The U.S. still is, these days, one of the most nationalistic countries on Earth! The whole "proud to be an American" thing, coupled with the absolute disinterest in foreign cultures is a trademark of the U.S. in this day and age, and back then, when the U.S. was still miles behind most of the civilized world in terms of human rights, that poster was quite suitable for the overblown, caricature context it's supposed to represent.

So, no. It's not offensive. If anything, it accurately portrays the POV of a vast portion of the American public, then and even somewhat now.

there are many Americans who are proud to live here, aren't most people proud of their country, and second we do not have an absolute disinterest in foreign cultures, America has people from all over the world living here we study different country cultures through school and college. Okay so the humans rights one you got me their, but they improved throughout the years, then they started to decline when Woodstock hit.

 

[the_bearpelt]

I'm extremely glad you've mentioned this. I found this both encouraging that someone agrees with me on America-bashing and that you're very well-thought.
I hadn't seen the mock posters until just now, but I agree with you. They do seem to be attempting to misconstrue America. America may have had its problems, but we are the most free country on the planet. The reason many countries hate us is largely because they are jealous. I met one girl who I believe was Mongolian, and I asked her why she came to the US, and she replied, "Because America is the Land of Dreams." People still call us that, because we provide more opportunities for equal treatment than any other country.
Also, I believe our Founding Fathers originally wanted to have equal rights for non-whites in America, but for some reason, couldn't. I can't remember the full details.

Thank you for being understanding. But after a day of being told it, I think I do understand I kinda missed the point(lol). I'm leaning more towords the idea now that the posters aren't really being serious in portraying American values or representing the developer's personal political feelings, but are more just a device to show how twisted the city of Columbia really is.
Problem is that I know for a fact that some of my friends are going to totally agree with the posters and believe that they make an intelligent statement about the current state of America just for the sake of hating on America, cause you know, that seems to be in style. They really should have more pride in being American, I mean, what's more awsome than being a bunch of ill equiped rebels fighting off the world's biggest empire? And yeah we all know that many of the founders owned slaves, but I think the idea of ending slavery may have been a bit ahead of it's time at that time. They just got done creating a nation with an unprecedented level of individual freedom; people need to give the founders a break. Plus the southern economy pretty much relied on slave labor to be profitable, all the way up to the civil war. I'm not justifing slavery, but southern poverty can be partially to blame for this. It was a very difficult problem to solve and trying to fix it right after the founding of the country just wouldn't have been an appropriate time.

I rather agree with you. It also smacks of hypocrisy when white Americans are the only ones who have ever done wrong, according to some people. (Even though it's true that there were white slaves, and even some blacks owned slaves, apparently.) I do find it sad that only America has done wrong in the eyes of a lot of people. But, in truth, every country that stands now took it from someone else. It wasn't exactly nice, but we've moved past that to a large degree.