Does anyone else get bored with the same RPG backdrop?
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I agree whole-heartedly. I like to fight new and interesting creatures, not your standard elves-trolls-orcs crap.
That being said, I did enjoy Oblivion more than Morrowind, though that's because Oblivion was more immersive, had a more intuitive interface, was better streamlined AND was easier to get started in.
That being said, I did enjoy Oblivion more than Morrowind, though that's because Oblivion was more immersive, had a more intuitive interface, was better streamlined AND was easier to get started in.
I'm not callin you out or anything, but not really. Star Wars has (had?) a great tabletop RPG, and someone should seriously EVE that stuff. Also, Shadowrun (tabletop)(what little I got to play of it, *sniffle*) is a sci-fi/futuristic/fantasy game done right. Someone should WoW that up, too. It's completely doable if you got the right writers behind it.HentMas said:
I'd be all kinds of behind a Starcraft MMO except they don't have the variety for it. It's just Zerg, Humans, and Protoss. Yeah there's several factions of each but it'd be rough getting that interaction dynamic to really sync. I just don't see it happening. What's that other futuristic one... Star... something... Star Ocean? idk, if someone knows what I'm talking about, speak up.
Erm... Syndicate? Even, I suppose, Flashback? There have been lots that aren't in a fantasy (or indeed a science fiction) environment which could fall into this category. The thing is, most of the ones I'm thinking of go back a way (and judging by some other threads, go back to before many forum users here were even born) and today's games do seem to have a distinct lack of imagination.Arcadia2000 said:
still... if looked closed enough the "classes" and "races" are exchangeableArcadia2000 said:
take away ALL the fantasy and magic (tecnology) or wathever, you end up with some kind of "the sims 3" or better put a "GTA" kind of game
the OP was complaining about the classes and races repeating themselves, tell me one that doesnt reflect something out of a tolkien book (just an example, not saying tolkien is the chief of fantasy or anything)
as a great writer haves said "every story that is worthy of being told haves already being told, we are just adjusting the details to acomodate the current generations"
and funnily enough, all those stories??? they have all being told at least once by Shakespear, he used the same setting twice in some of them.
its the same in gameplay mechanics, just change name, and abilities, magic for tec, they all come from the same basis
Yes, the whole high fantasy thing is starting to be a bit repetitive. I played through the first bit of DA:O last night, won't have time to go back to it until at least a week or so, but the blandness of the setting was kind of annoying.
There are so many more time periods and settings out there to make high quality RPGs. I haven't seen a good steampunk, Victorian era, or Classical antiquity RPG in quite some time, or for that matter, one set in the modern era. So, right now, that just means I'm going to have to wait for ME2 and Alpha Protocol.
Also, GTA isn't really an RPG, its more of an adventure/third-person shooter with minor RPG elements, since the story is almost always entirely linear and there is no control over character development. I would love to see a sandbox RPG in a major city with a proper RPG storyline and character development system, but for some reason nobody has tried it yet. I think the problem is that for Bioware, their storytelling style is tied to the linear character of their level design - its a package. For Bethesda, its a problem of game engines not really being suited to fast paced combat or travel since areas load quite slowly in their worlds compared to a GTA world for example. But somebody has to make the leap, I'm sure it will happen someday soon. The closest I've played so far was Vampires, the Masquerade: Bloodlines, which was still quite linear. Admittedly, haven't had time to try Prototype yet.
Sure, they took great pains to paint a somewhat unique political environment (more early Medeival rather than late Medeival, what with the decentralization and all) and spent a lot of time writing high quality background codex info, this is Bioware we're talking about after all. But it just felt like it had been done so many times before already.
There are so many more time periods and settings out there to make high quality RPGs. I haven't seen a good steampunk, Victorian era, or Classical antiquity RPG in quite some time, or for that matter, one set in the modern era. So, right now, that just means I'm going to have to wait for ME2 and Alpha Protocol.
Also, GTA isn't really an RPG, its more of an adventure/third-person shooter with minor RPG elements, since the story is almost always entirely linear and there is no control over character development. I would love to see a sandbox RPG in a major city with a proper RPG storyline and character development system, but for some reason nobody has tried it yet. I think the problem is that for Bioware, their storytelling style is tied to the linear character of their level design - its a package. For Bethesda, its a problem of game engines not really being suited to fast paced combat or travel since areas load quite slowly in their worlds compared to a GTA world for example. But somebody has to make the leap, I'm sure it will happen someday soon. The closest I've played so far was Vampires, the Masquerade: Bloodlines, which was still quite linear. Admittedly, haven't had time to try Prototype yet.
Well, more than anything I just find the setting to be cliche and in poor taste. Just because RPG games famously began in the middle ages with dragons and wizards and knights in black armor doesn't mean it can't ever venture from it. It just makes the developers look unoriginal and bland - like they can't come up with their own setting.
Why don't we have a mythological age RPG game (Think God of War - but RPG)? It's not like you couldn't still create monsters that didn't exist and maintain an interesting story. Why not an accurate medieval period RPG with no wizardry or magic - just realistic settings. There's a ton of ideas out there and the only ones who seem to do some venturing are the Japanese developers, and then you're into that whole Japanese style RPG mess (Like, what's the one with some kid in a fictional country that is being attacked by Nazis or something - it was on Unskippable). Or the Final Fantasy world, which while I'm not a fan is at least totally unique in the sense it's based in it's own scope of reality - like an alternate universe almost. Even Japanese games that aren't RPGs do a better job of making a unique setting - look at Acecombat, it has it's own countries and conflicts all unique to it's own history (The only real part being the planes, which is good as fake plane models would be cheap).
I have to qualify myself by saying "Does anyone else..." because it seems like anymore people don't. Obviously no one is sick of playing WWII FPS games because they keep making them and people keep on buying them. And not just WWII FPSes, WWII FPSes from the American point of view - with not an ounce of a chance of seeing it from even a German solider who betrayed his own country or anything like that (but that's another issue).
Why can't we get an RPG with something like actual modern weaponry (In my head I'm picturing a sort of Rainbow Six of getting to pick your weapons - that whole lot) and modern vehicles? I mean look at the success of CoD 4 and MW2 in comparison to the other CoD games...I understand that's FPS and we're talking RPG but there's nothing that says you can't take a common FPS setting and put it in an RPG world. The best we've had that I can think of so far is Fallout 3 - there's no stupid magic in it, just guns and melee weapons. It's the whole magical aspect I have a problem with, there is no real sorcery. Even if a game claims to do it a whole different way than the others it's the same thing. It's like how many ways can you cut an Apple pie and still have an Apple pie...it just looks a little different.
There are some future based RPGs here and there, Mass Effect being the one I can think of currently although you have KOTOR (Although technically the Star Wars universe is based in the past in a distant galaxy so meh - take it as you want). I'm just surprised people are still raving for more middle ages stuff. Wasn't the Neverwinter Nights series, the Elder Scrolls series, the Gothic series, the Witcher, Two Worlds, Dragon Age: Origins, D&D Online, (Now I'm drawing off related titles on Gamespot) Risen, Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, and a countless list of others enough to get your fill? How many more interpretations of this same mythical era do we need? It's just so saturated that original ideas seem so few and far between - more like tweaks to the existing formula at this point.
Why don't we have a mythological age RPG game (Think God of War - but RPG)? It's not like you couldn't still create monsters that didn't exist and maintain an interesting story. Why not an accurate medieval period RPG with no wizardry or magic - just realistic settings. There's a ton of ideas out there and the only ones who seem to do some venturing are the Japanese developers, and then you're into that whole Japanese style RPG mess (Like, what's the one with some kid in a fictional country that is being attacked by Nazis or something - it was on Unskippable). Or the Final Fantasy world, which while I'm not a fan is at least totally unique in the sense it's based in it's own scope of reality - like an alternate universe almost. Even Japanese games that aren't RPGs do a better job of making a unique setting - look at Acecombat, it has it's own countries and conflicts all unique to it's own history (The only real part being the planes, which is good as fake plane models would be cheap).
I have to qualify myself by saying "Does anyone else..." because it seems like anymore people don't. Obviously no one is sick of playing WWII FPS games because they keep making them and people keep on buying them. And not just WWII FPSes, WWII FPSes from the American point of view - with not an ounce of a chance of seeing it from even a German solider who betrayed his own country or anything like that (but that's another issue).
Why can't we get an RPG with something like actual modern weaponry (In my head I'm picturing a sort of Rainbow Six of getting to pick your weapons - that whole lot) and modern vehicles? I mean look at the success of CoD 4 and MW2 in comparison to the other CoD games...I understand that's FPS and we're talking RPG but there's nothing that says you can't take a common FPS setting and put it in an RPG world. The best we've had that I can think of so far is Fallout 3 - there's no stupid magic in it, just guns and melee weapons. It's the whole magical aspect I have a problem with, there is no real sorcery. Even if a game claims to do it a whole different way than the others it's the same thing. It's like how many ways can you cut an Apple pie and still have an Apple pie...it just looks a little different.
There are some future based RPGs here and there, Mass Effect being the one I can think of currently although you have KOTOR (Although technically the Star Wars universe is based in the past in a distant galaxy so meh - take it as you want). I'm just surprised people are still raving for more middle ages stuff. Wasn't the Neverwinter Nights series, the Elder Scrolls series, the Gothic series, the Witcher, Two Worlds, Dragon Age: Origins, D&D Online, (Now I'm drawing off related titles on Gamespot) Risen, Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, and a countless list of others enough to get your fill? How many more interpretations of this same mythical era do we need? It's just so saturated that original ideas seem so few and far between - more like tweaks to the existing formula at this point.
Well lets see what the consumer has to say.
Generic Game Dev: Hey if we make a fucking sweet Fantasy RPG will you buy it?
Consumer: Does it have a good story and fucking awesome gameplay?
Generic Game Dev: Ya, sure does.
Consumer: Ok, im sold.
Generic Game Dev: Ok then sounds good. Fucking sweet (91 Metascore) fantasy RPG coming up.
Generic Game Dev: Hey if we make a fucking sweet Fantasy RPG will you buy it?
Consumer: Does it have a good story and fucking awesome gameplay?
Generic Game Dev: Ya, sure does.
Consumer: Ok, im sold.
Generic Game Dev: Ok then sounds good. Fucking sweet (91 Metascore) fantasy RPG coming up.
Depends on how well they use it.
I actually rather like what they did with Dragon Age's world. Yes, it's once again humans, dwarves, and elves, but they mixed things up a bit in such a way as to bring new significance to the formula. Bravo.
The main reason they stick with the same old "elves, dwarves, ect" formula is just because there's enough people that know about these things that they don't need to continually explain what these are. If we were to make a fantasy MMORPGs about crogaks, mavors, philifians, and rogs then we'd lose 90% of our potential playerbase because that many players would just go, "WTF?" and leave. For too many players, fantasy is elves, dwarves, ect - they just can't deal with a radical change of scenery, too much learning, too much wasted background knowledge. The storyteller is always at the mercy of his audience.
That said, give Geneforge [http://www.spidweb.com/geneforge/] a spin. It does things somewhat differently.
I actually rather like what they did with Dragon Age's world. Yes, it's once again humans, dwarves, and elves, but they mixed things up a bit in such a way as to bring new significance to the formula. Bravo.
The main reason they stick with the same old "elves, dwarves, ect" formula is just because there's enough people that know about these things that they don't need to continually explain what these are. If we were to make a fantasy MMORPGs about crogaks, mavors, philifians, and rogs then we'd lose 90% of our potential playerbase because that many players would just go, "WTF?" and leave. For too many players, fantasy is elves, dwarves, ect - they just can't deal with a radical change of scenery, too much learning, too much wasted background knowledge. The storyteller is always at the mercy of his audience.
That said, give Geneforge [http://www.spidweb.com/geneforge/] a spin. It does things somewhat differently.
I don't really play that many rpg's but the select few I do a substantually different from what you described, mainly because there all in the future.
well most times it wouldn't make that game you cant have an FPS without guns so you also cant have a fantasy RPG without wizards!
It does amaze me how in fantasy it seems people are locked into boundaries of classes, races and creatures.
It is fantasy, no rules, make up races and creatures (and not ones that are very similar to elves or dragons) and have fun.
Even though I complain, when high fantasy is done well, it is a blast, so blame me, i plan on picking up Dragon Age someday as it is Bioware and Baldurs Gate was great.
It is fantasy, no rules, make up races and creatures (and not ones that are very similar to elves or dragons) and have fun.
Even though I complain, when high fantasy is done well, it is a blast, so blame me, i plan on picking up Dragon Age someday as it is Bioware and Baldurs Gate was great.
You're basically saying you're tired of the fantasy genre.
I would agree, it's a bit overused, but I'd take either fantasy or sci-fi over modern-day, especially for an RPG where you have such freedom to explore.
If you're tired of this, I'd recommend checking out some Final Fantasy, if you haven't already: I know you said they're not your style, but they tell some of the best stories I've ever been told, and you get used to the gameplay. Games like Final Fantasy VI, VII, X and XII take place in a world that still has all the fantasy elements in place, but there's an important and integrated technological aspect as well that really changes things up from the formula you're talking about. Not to mention each one has a different way that magic works, so even the base elements are changed a bit: the Materia system in Final Fantasy VII was an amazing way to explain and customize magic in the game.
I would agree, it's a bit overused, but I'd take either fantasy or sci-fi over modern-day, especially for an RPG where you have such freedom to explore.
If you're tired of this, I'd recommend checking out some Final Fantasy, if you haven't already: I know you said they're not your style, but they tell some of the best stories I've ever been told, and you get used to the gameplay. Games like Final Fantasy VI, VII, X and XII take place in a world that still has all the fantasy elements in place, but there's an important and integrated technological aspect as well that really changes things up from the formula you're talking about. Not to mention each one has a different way that magic works, so even the base elements are changed a bit: the Materia system in Final Fantasy VII was an amazing way to explain and customize magic in the game.
I think a lot has to do with people's choice of offensive weaponary in games. If you are into swords and magic then 'high/dark fantasy' is good for you and if you're a fan of guns and energy shields then a 'sci-fi' setting might be best suited for your needs.
As much as I would like to see some game break out of that mold and try something radicaly different I'm not sure if it would work. I guess it's easyish to have magic and technology mixed together (such as the FF series) but on the other hand I couldn't see a bunch of super soldiers with high tech guns strolling through a forrest or ransacking a dungeon.
I personally am a fan of both types and am eagerly awaiting my copy of dragons age as we speak! I just hope it there waiting in my post box when I come back from giving blood today.
Edit: Fail typing :/
As much as I would like to see some game break out of that mold and try something radicaly different I'm not sure if it would work. I guess it's easyish to have magic and technology mixed together (such as the FF series) but on the other hand I couldn't see a bunch of super soldiers with high tech guns strolling through a forrest or ransacking a dungeon.
I personally am a fan of both types and am eagerly awaiting my copy of dragons age as we speak! I just hope it there waiting in my post box when I come back from giving blood today.
Edit: Fail typing :/
I get what you're saying there. But we can say that about all kinds of games today. FPS are pretty generic, too. I mean, if you take away the aliens or nazis or zombies and the futuristic gadgetry, aren't they all just counterstrike or somesuch? I don't think there's any shame in working with a winning strategy so long as you add something to the established lore that's your very own.HentMas said:
Mmm, I think the OP was more on the setting than races, although the two do go hand-in-hand. I mean, you can have medieval fantasy without elves or dragons or even wizards, but you need to have something. I agree that it's overdone, but it's not hopeless as a good setting, and the RPG isn't dependent on it as a good genre. It's just popular because it's easy.
Someone else above said something to the effect of: pretty much everyone knows it, and has a knowledge base that makes it easy to form a player-to-game bond. Even in games that don't come out and call them elves and wizards and dwarves and dragons; we have a concept core that makes it easy to relate to the idea of what's being presented. If it's got pointy ears and is pretty and lives in a forest, it might be called a "gellian" but everyone is gonna know it as "elf."
I don't think you can really criticize the gaming industry by calling on Shakespeare and saying "well he did it all already." That's a criticism of all the literary arts. Movies, books, and storytelling games. You could just as easily say that no one has written anything new in terms of movies or books because Shakespeare did it already. If that's really the case, then we wouldn't have the variety of literature that we do because everyone would be reading Shakespeare. Much as I respect The Bard, he's not singlehandedly responsible for every possible literary device in modern literature.
You also can't really bash a genre for being itself. I mean, it's unfair to a romantic comedy to criticize it for not having guns and a wicked chase scene or zombies. You can't really say that RPGs suck because they're all the same. Wasn't it Yahtzee who said something to the effect of: left stick for movement, right stick for camera, it works, don't screw it up? That's kind of what it's all about. Do quest, gain level, train, fight for good/evil - if it's boring, go do something else. Play frisbee, or cards, shoot zombies, or nazis. (That wasn't directed at you but at a basic attitude.)
And this is kinda nitpicky, but really classes and races are exchangeable as a whole across genres but not to themselves. Being an elf is not the same thing as being a blacksmith - even Munchkin knows that. I hope that's what you were trying to say, because it didn't read that way to me.
WoW isn't Tolkien and Assassin's Creed or Bioshock isn't GTA and CoD isn't Halo. Do I think that the RPG industry needs to branch out a little bit? Yeah. But the argument you make isn't really relevant to the topic. Your argument seems more like, "Why bother - it's all the same game anyway" while the topic is more like "We like the game, but we need different settings."