Does devolution have any basis?

[octafish]

Not many spuds on the Escapist it seems.

Are we not men!

*starts looking for the Freedom of Choice clip on youtube*

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

First question that stands out: Why would religion lower intelligence?

On a very large (evolutionary) scale, one could reason that we may be headed towards lower IQ in general is the prevalence of higher birth rates among people of lower education and IQ. But given that intelligence as a learned/raised trait vs. intelligence as genetic, an environmental factor as simple as a lack of money for good textbooks could probably outdo hundreds of years of "devolution" due to higher birth rates. The worst you may get is a large social stratification and a huge low-education mass if public education continues to deteriorate. Less educated people give birth to more children, who are trapped in a cycle of poverty. Similar to how there are huge numbers of uneducated people still in developing countries (and even in developed ones.)

My bet, if there is actually any basis for "devolution" (though all the reports that I've read have shown the opposite,) it simply rests in schooling. Perhaps Western/American schooling quality has dropped recently (I feel like that's an incredibly likely explanation, given the state of the American education system.) Though that said, common markers for intelligence (IQ tests,) have gone nowhere but up, though this may not be as much a case of people getting smarter, but simply being better acquainted with the more standard test format.

I'll also point out that "devolution" is a bit of a misnomer, as humans would still be evolving if we were moving towards less intelligent individuals.

Still, the more you know...
cheers

I once saw something about this, but in relation to the so called "Race Gap" in intelligence, but all that they found was that IQ tests didn't measure intelligence per se, but how successful someone would be in modern life. Also it was found that the reason that poorer African-American family's children only got lower scores because their socio-economic precluded their children from learning the sorts of things that allow people to do well in an IQ test. Furthermore the only reason Asians are perceived as being harder-working, more intelligent students is because of the way that Asian families are generally structured.

So yeah, not to do with devolution, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[Blue_vision]

I also don't think there's a rise in religious fanatism. There's just bigger ways for the few to show themselves.

Nope. In both Britain and the US, Evangelical Christianity is on the rise, and Canada is seeing a rise of other fundamental Christian groups. Can't speak for Australia and the continent, but that's over 1/3 of the western world.

 

[viranimus]

Actually if this is true, and yes I think it could be true. I dont think it actually is yet to a point of discernible notice, then it would have to be based on the notion that we have been made lazier with knowledge in part thanks to the internet.

And I too am tired of people thinking that having religious faith is a sign of lacking intelligence. Im not really all that religious myself, but I am not atheistic either. But for some reason a lot of atheists want to think that "believing in an invisible man in the sky" automatically is a sign of stupidity. All because they want to think because if your stupid enough to believe in myths, you would be stupid enough to believe anything. Faith is not a sign of ignorance. Hell, look through just about any history book and look at historical doctors, philosophers, scientists, some of the most brilliant minds humanity has ever produced and lo and behold, they also believed in religion too.

But however the notion of decreasing in intelligence from the OP might have a grain or two of truth. It is entirely possible for the species to continue to redouble our knowledge exponetially, all the while the averages for the individual typically go on the decline.

Meh... Ill just go ahead and say it.. BRING ON THE MORLOCKS!!!

 

[New Troll]

I also don't think there's a rise in religious fanatism. There's just bigger ways for the few to show themselves.

Nope. In both Britain and the US, Evangelical Christianity is on the rise, and Canada is seeing a rise of other fundamental Christian groups. Can't speak for Australia and the continent, but that's over 1/3 of the western world.

Yeah, but so is population, along with all the other denominations (or lack of.) I still don't see much difference.

Also, I'm referring to the fanatics that would fit more into the OP's question. The Sunday Christian does not count in my opinion.

 

[thylasos]

Ah, I thought this was going to be someone complaining about the Scottish parliament.

 

[macfluffers]

Religion as a reason for declining intelligence is rubbish. In the European Dark Ages, the Middle East was flourishing in the golden age of Islam. They reinvented so many things that were lost in Europe, and it was the most socially forward place on Earth at the time. Obviously, the Middle East and Islam are very different at the moment, but my point stands.

 

[Jekken6]

When I saw this thread, i thought of the movie 'Idiocracy'.

 

[Jimbo Brawl]

There is no such thing as de-evolution. Evolution does not mean "to get better," it only means "to change," and nature does not keep in infinite record of our previous forms from past times. Thus, if a species of exceptional intelligence EVOLVES to a point where their intelligence is generally worse it's only an example of changing, not reverting back to a former genetic state.

Also, Darwin's theory does not literally state that the strongest and the fittest will survive. What he means is those who can reproduce the most in the shortest amount of time will thrive. A species's mental capacity and physical fortitude is meaningless if each individual can pump out 500+ offspring a year.

 

[Ham_authority95]

"De-evolution" is a silly concept. Species change over time because of environmental and survivialistic trends that make certain genes and mutations carry to offspring.

So if a species survives just fine with, say, 50% less intelligence, than there is factor that is letting them continue.

Evolution is just change, not "better" or "worse".

 

[Kae]

It does not have any basis it's just that it looks like it's going down because now every idiot is intercommunicated all across the globe which means that you finally get to see that most of the populous are imbeciles but I believe it has always been that way.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Devolution is a silly concept and isn't worht mentioning outside of that one episode of Star Trek where Barclay magically turned into a spider monster.

The concept is based upon a total misunderstanding of how evolution works.

Secondly...10 years is less than half a generation, it is hardly enough time to see evolution in action. Human beings were more or less the same thousands of years ago.

People aren't getting stupider, they are getting more interested in posting the results of stupidity on youtube.

 

[FalloutJack]

Hah hah hah hah... No, people don't downgrade because they're idiots. They die.

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Well seeing as parents don't directly pass on their intelligence to their kids, no. Plus de-evolution is a broken concept as you can't de-evolve; you can change, but you never de-evolve. Add in the fact that even a "stupid" person now-a-days still knows more than the average "stupid" person 100 years ago. People could also be showing forms of intelligence not yet recognized. And finally there have always been lots of "stupid" (more likely either innocently ignorant or just "simple") people, its not like there was a time just recently when the average person was very intelligent.

So no, people haven't been getting stupider in the last couple years.

 

[Poptart Invasion]

eh, doubt it. dont know enough to have a solid basis for this opinion. but it seems to me that people generally still know what they need to know and can improvise or innovate when they dont.

as for religion, someone already mentioned the mideast in the middle ages. and much of the re-discoveries were greek or roman in origin. and you probably already know how nuts their religious beliefs were.

buddhists are probably another good example of religion fostering intelligence.

Evolution is just change, not "better" or "worse".

and that. ESSPECIALLY that. plenty of us (myself included) joke about deaths due to stupidity, maybe saying its natural selection. but when you start seriously thinking like that, you become a eugenist. and history has shown us time and time again what a slippery slope that is! probably the biggest example: the holocaust.

evolution is NOT improvement. it is simply change.

 

[BonsaiK]

For those of you who don't know devolution is that theory that the average intelligence of the human species has been going down in the past ten years.Do the people of the escapist think that this could actually be proof of devolution or is it sort of a recetion in human inteligence (much like the dark ages before the renisance)and if you do belive its just a recetion what do you belive could have caused it? Could it have been the giant resurgence of religion (much like the the dark ages) or could it be a different cause?

The theory's wrong. Humans these days are smarter than ever before, on average. We've got so much knowledge built up as a society that it would be physically impossible for one person to learn it all. There's always going to be thickos and people easily led into drug abuse, fundamentalism, or other stupid things but overall we're trending up. not down. I mean, look at all the smart people in this thread, just for starters...

 

[Blue_vision]

Yeah, but so is population, along with all the other denominations (or lack of.) I still don't see much difference.

Also, I'm referring to the fanatics that would fit more into the OP's question. The Sunday Christian does not count in my opinion.

Consider, if you will, a ~300% increase in Evangelical Christianity in the US in the past 20 years, while the population has increased less than 25%. Evangelicalism being basically by definition an extremist view on Christianity, I'd say your assertion seems flawed. And again, it's a well-documented sociological phenomenon.

And really, just think about the 40-50% of American adults who don't believe in the evolutionary process. There is no way that over 40% of the american population is more than what'd you'd think of as "Sunday Christian," yet their religion is still affecting their judgement on educational/scientific topics.

Though, again, it's probably far more a matter of education. I.e. >70% of post-graduates believe in natural evolution, and post-graduate students are inevitably smarter than people without higher education (duh.)

 

[Talal Provides]

They tell us that
We lost our tails
Evolving up
From little snails
I say it's all
Just wind in sails
Are we not men?
We are Devo!
Are we not men?
D-E-V-O

We're pinheads now
We are not whole
We're pinheads all
Jocko homo
Are we not men?
We are Devo!
Are we not men?
D-E-V-O
Are we not pins?
We are Devo!

Monkey men all
In business suits
Teachers and critics
All dance the poot
Are we not men?
We are Devo!
Are we not men?
D-E-V-O
Are we not pins?
We are Devo!
Are we not men?
D-E-V-O

I got a rhyme that comes with a riddle
O-HI-O
What's round on the ends and high in the middle?
O-HI-O

God made man
But he used the monkey to do it
Apes in the plan
We're all here to prove it
I can walk like an ape
Talk like an ape
Do what a monkey can do
God made man
But a monkey supplied the glue

Are we not men?
We are Devo!
Are we not men?
We are Devo!
Are we not men?
We are Devo!
Are we not men?
We are Devo!

We must repeat
D-E-V-O
We must repeat
D-E-V-O
We must repeat
D-E-V-O
We must repeat
D-E-V-O
We must repeat
D-E-V-O
We must repeat
D-E-V-O
We must repeat
D-E-V-O
We must repeat
O.K. let's go!

 

[loc978]

Idiocracy is coming to pass!

Seriously, though... not really. The recent trend of less intelligent people having more kids isn't going to have much of an impact, I imagine. Might even change soon. Geek sexiness is on the rise.

 

[The Hairminator]

There is no such thing as devolution or de-evolving for a species. It is impossible per definition.

A species can and will evolve, but not de-evolve, as it is in the end up to what genetic traits that get the most numerous and prosperous offspring.