Does Dragon Age 2 get better?

[NickCaligo42]

EDIT:
THIS is what I was looking to find out:

I think the bit from the beginning to the end of the year of servitude is the only part where things are really disjointed and skipping potentially interesting bits like you seem to be complaining about.

After that it starts skipping way less often and the skipped bits sound way less interesting.

Many thanks to all who replied! That's all I needed to know to get the motivation to keep going.

ORIGINAL POST
So...

I didn't much care for DA:Origins, for a lot of reasons I won't get into. Just wasn't my cup of tea, we'll say. I bought DA2 because I played the demo and felt like the interface and general flow of combat were a significant improvement from DA1 without dumbing it down, as much as Mass Effect 2 was from ME1. Plus, the art style is much more distinctive, very much improved, I rather like the concept of exploring Hawke's rise to power, and I thought they were just presenting the story in a more interesting fashion.

I've played it for a few hours now; completed Flemeth's "errand," and... I gotta tell you, I'm pretty reasonably sure that Origins was way better than this. It's so choppy. Every time they start to establish something and get me interested, every time they set out an interesting premise for quests and cool shit I can be doing, they fast-forward me past a huge chunk of the story, usually only to have me do some menial tasks.

I skipped over a journey to a major city and a voyage across dangerous, stormy seas (great opportunity to introduce the Quanari, by the way) so that I could watch my characters mill around in a town square for a couple of days and get two gold pieces off a guy who welshed on a loan from some smugglers.

I then skipped over a year of service to said smugglers, during which time I apparently made a big name for myself and was evidently invaluable to them, so that I could perform odd jobs in the interest of acquiring the 50 gold necessary to proceed onto a real quest. I was apparently the most badass smuggler in the city and secured for them a place as the only remaining smuggling group, but didn't make a single gold piece in that time and got kicked out on the street in spite of my enormous contributions rather than securing a permanent position as a leader among their ranks.

Am I the only one seeing a few flaws in the storytelling methodology here? I haven't had a concrete goal yet, certainly nothing suggesting any kind of major arc or theme to the story, and every time it picks up one or starts to get interesting it instantly abandons its current focus and shoves a new premise on me, leaving me to go, "wow! THAT sure would have been interesting to play!" as if it doesn't think I can handle having any control yet. It's really invasive, very much unlike anything I'd ever figure I'd see Bioware making, and so far the world feels very truncated and over-simplified, less like I'm exploring the rich fantasy setting (and I KNOW they put a lot of detail into it) and more like I'm going through a series of Dragon Age-themed "levels" loosely connected through a map screen. I didn't even like Origins, but I'm almost certain that it was better than this on sheer presentation.

Maybe I'm being unfair, though. I'm only maybe three or four hours in, and as I understand it this is a plenty big game with a lot of content, so there's a good chance it just gets off to a bad start before it stabilizes and gets better. I want to know, however. Is that how it is? Has it stopped jerking me around now, or am I going to see it skipping years of my character's life at a time on a regular basis? I want to like it, I want to give it a fair chance--like I said, there ARE a lot of improvements--but it's getting harder and harder for me to maintain my interest in it when it feels like the developers weren't interested in telling their own story.

 

[darth.pixie]

Ah, if you don't like it so far, it probably won't get better. It was a meh for me, played because I was bored. I finished it in 2 days. The locations are repetitive for the whole game and the story is not really yours as claimed...mostly that of the city. If you don't like it so far, you will probably hate the end year which I considered the worst one.

Keep playing it if you want to see the end, since it's short without the side quests, but if you don't, just put it aside.

 

[Knight Templar]

Just a few points.

So...
I skipped over a journey to a major city and a voyage across dangerous, stormy seas (great opportunity to introduce the Quanari, by the way)so that I could watch my characters mill around in a town square for a couple of days and get two gold pieces off a guy who welshed on a loan from some smugglers.

While I'm sure moving safely to Gwaren and then sitting in the hold of a boat for days would be thrilling to you, most people might not agree.

Also how the hell would that be a good way to introduce the Qunari?
"Oh hey see that thing that isn't nearby?"
"No"
"That's a Qunari!"

I was apparently the most badass smuggler in the city and secured for them a place as the only remaining smuggling group, but didn't make a single gold piece in that time and got kicked out on the street in spite of my enormous contributions rather than securing a permanent position as a leader among their ranks.

Why would the people in charge let you take their place?
Why would you earn money when your service was to repay debt?
In my play through they still offered me work, but I was with the red iron.

Finally I wonder why you ask for a clear goal when you have one.
Get 50 gold to buy into an expedition that will make you rich.



Just a few points, I get the feeling this game isn't for you.

 

[NickCaligo42]

While I'm sure moving safely to Gwaren and then sitting in the hold of a boat for days would be thrilling to you, most people might not agree.

Also how the hell would that be a good way to introduce the Qunari?
"Oh hey see that thing that isn't nearby?"
"No"
"That's a Qunari!"

As I understand it they're seafarers and rather warlike. A clash with a bunch of Quanari during the storm that actually gets them stranded in Kirkwall seems a more effective means of introducing them than just SAYING they got stranded in a cutscene, which is lazy, while also establishing the tension between us and them in a more direct fashion. Seems like we don't have to do a whole lot to provoke them into attacking our ships. I'm just saying, it felt like a missed opportunity for both some heroics on the player's part and an event that can possibly lead to a good inciting incident within the story. As for the on-foot journey, I honestly wouldn't object to having Flemeth in my company for a while longer. I like her, she's cool. Also, it didn't sound very safe to move to Gwaren.

The rest of your points I'll give you are fairly debatable. Maybe if I'd actually gotten to play my career as a smuggler those points would have come through clearer. Except Varric says that I totally pulled their butts out of the fire. I have no choice to assume he's right, because I sort of skipped that part of my history. Why would I have done that if there were no chance for reward? Just out of self-preservation? People don't tend to excel to that degree under those meager motivations, in my experience, but whatever.

All I'm saying is that there ain't anything terribly strong for me to glom onto. Yeah, I've got a goal--get 50 gold. Why? I just don't see where this plot railroad is going or why I should care. I have no emotional context for what's happening, and I'm being portioned out teeny-tiny goals one bit at a time, going forward simply because I have no other direction to go in.

Compare with DA1, where I was pretty reasonably sure that I'd be running against the Darkspawn from minute one, it was just a matter of finding out what motivates me to join the Grey Wardens, put my life on the line, and do it. There were a lot of bumps in the road as far as the storytelling went; I picked Human Noble as my background, which is apparently the single least interesting, most ham-handedly written of the entire bunch of intro scenarios, slating you with such thrilling adventures as "going upstairs to tell your brother that dad wants you downstairs" and "killing rats in mom's kitchen." It missed a few of its own opportunities, but it did eventually pick up and get to the point.

All I'm asking here is if this game eventually does as well. There's no need for you to take such a tone with me over it, I just want to know so that I can give it a fair chance. :\

 

[Savagezion]

I am planning to go more in depth on my outlook on it once I have finished it but...

I then skipped over a year of service to said smugglers, during which time I apparently made a big name for myself and was evidently invaluable to them, so that I could perform odd jobs in the interest of acquiring the 50 gold necessary to proceed onto a real quest. I was apparently the most badass smuggler in the city and secured for them a place as the only remaining smuggling group, but didn't make a single gold piece in that time and got kicked out on the street in spite of my enormous contributions rather than securing a permanent position as a leader among their ranks.

You were good... for an indentured servant. I will agree that this time spent should have had some questing going on but you weren't getting paid. You were a slave. You were paid by getting into the city and having your needs being taken care of. It was not a paying job in the traditional sense. You made a name for yourself as a "good slave" and might be popular amongst the wretches in the city but not the nobles. Not even every wretch.

Am I the only one seeing a few flaws in the storytelling methodology here? I haven't had a concrete goal yet, certainly nothing suggesting any kind of major arc or theme to the story, and every time it picks up one or starts to get interesting it instantly abandons its current focus and shoves a new premise on me, leaving me to go, "wow! THAT sure would have been interesting to play!" as if it doesn't think I can handle having any control yet. It's really invasive, very much unlike anything I'd ever figure I'd see Bioware making, and so far the world feels very truncated and over-simplified, less like I'm exploring the rich fantasy setting (and I KNOW they put a lot of detail into it) and more like I'm going through a series of Dragon Age-themed "levels" loosely connected through a map screen. I didn't even like Origins, but I'm almost certain that it was better than this on sheer presentation.

I am actually liking this but it isn't a good idea to do it in every game, it just happens to work for Dragon Age. So far my thoughts on it are the map travel is seriously fucking stupid. Do I really need fast travel in a city? I could go on about this but whatever. This is one of the most linear structures for Bioware next to NWN. The combat picks up but at this point I think the story is probably going to be "choppy" all the way through. It isn't very seamless despite using the Mass Effect approach. In fact the seams between cutscenes and gameplay seem to jump in your face and scream for you to notice them. It is very immersion breaking for a Bioware game. But I haven't made it much further than you.

it feels like the developers weren't interested in telling their own story.

I actually disagree with this statement. I think this is what a lot of people are having a problem with is that Bioware is telling most of the story and the player is just throwing in a dash of flavor. As opposed to the way Bioware usually trows a lot of chances for the player to take control of the narrative here and there.

EDIT: As for a specific story arc I can tell you I haven't seen one yet. But like I said, I am not much further than you. Maybe an hour or 2 if I had to guess.

 

[Trolldor]

OP: It does get better, much better.
I'm actually enjoying the first stages of the game now, on my third playthrough.
Just don't stop, restart, new class, thinking it will make it better.
It will actually make it seem worse.

Edit: As for story Arc, it seemed pretty obvious to me what it would come down to.

Spoiler

Templars... mage accusations of oppression..

 

[Shycte]

You know, with Origins I didn't really start to love the game until my third playtrough. That was when I started understand the combat, understand the deepth of the story.

I'm on my second playtrough on DA2 and the thunder haven't struckt yet. Hoping it will. 8/10

 

[manythings]

What you do in the beginning is setting up what happens later. You're literally deciding who your friends and enemies will be. The story is cooking for ten whole years, people remember people that cost them money or save them from serious trouble.

If you really just aren't liking it, maybe it isn't for you and that sucks but... if you don't like sushi it isn't going to taste better next week.

 

[Rayne870]

So...

I didn't much care for DA:Origins, for a lot of reasons I won't get into. Just wasn't my cup of tea, we'll say. I bought DA2 because I played the demo and felt like the interface and general flow of combat were a significant improvement from DA1 without dumbing it down, as much as Mass Effect 2 was from ME1. Plus, the art style is much more distinctive, very much improved, I rather like the concept of exploring Hawke's rise to power, and I thought they were just presenting the story in a more interesting fashion.

I've played it for a few hours now; completed Flemeth's "errand," and... I gotta tell you, I'm pretty reasonably sure that Origins was way better than this. It's so choppy. Every time they start to establish something and get me interested, every time they set out an interesting premise for quests and cool shit I can be doing, they fast-forward me past a huge chunk of the story, usually only to have me do some menial tasks.

I skipped over a journey to a major city and a voyage across dangerous, stormy seas (great opportunity to introduce the Quanari, by the way) so that I could watch my characters mill around in a town square for a couple of days and get two gold pieces off a guy who welshed on a loan from some smugglers.

I then skipped over a year of service to said smugglers, during which time I apparently made a big name for myself and was evidently invaluable to them, so that I could perform odd jobs in the interest of acquiring the 50 gold necessary to proceed onto a real quest. I was apparently the most badass smuggler in the city and secured for them a place as the only remaining smuggling group, but didn't make a single gold piece in that time and got kicked out on the street in spite of my enormous contributions rather than securing a permanent position as a leader among their ranks.

Am I the only one seeing a few flaws in the storytelling methodology here? I haven't had a concrete goal yet, certainly nothing suggesting any kind of major arc or theme to the story, and every time it picks up one or starts to get interesting it instantly abandons its current focus and shoves a new premise on me, leaving me to go, "wow! THAT sure would have been interesting to play!" as if it doesn't think I can handle having any control yet. It's really invasive, very much unlike anything I'd ever figure I'd see Bioware making, and so far the world feels very truncated and over-simplified, less like I'm exploring the rich fantasy setting (and I KNOW they put a lot of detail into it) and more like I'm going through a series of Dragon Age-themed "levels" loosely connected through a map screen. I didn't even like Origins, but I'm almost certain that it was better than this on sheer presentation.

Maybe I'm being unfair, though. I'm only maybe three or four hours in, and as I understand it this is a plenty big game with a lot of content, so there's a good chance it just gets off to a bad start before it stabilizes and gets better. I want to know, however. Is that how it is? Has it stopped jerking me around now, or am I going to see it skipping years of my character's life at a time on a regular basis? I want to like it, I want to give it a fair chance--like I said, there ARE a lot of improvements--but it's getting harder and harder for me to maintain my interest in it when it feels like the developers weren't interested in telling their own story.

All that was skipped was unpaid indentured servitude and a boat trip. There is more in the game past these events and for me it is an interesting story, while not focusing on the typical "zomg apocalypse" sort of thing that plagues rpgs. It is really more about survival and getting established after the blight, and some setup for DA3 and DA2 DLC events.

 

[Madkipz]

No, it will remain the same until you get to the parts after the Qunari story arc is resolved, then you actually get to play the game.

 

[Trolldor]

My only problem with DA:2 is that its a side-quest fest. That detracts from the game because the pacing of the main story is so damn slow.

In DA:O even when doing sidequests the world felt like it was progressing.

 

[NickCaligo42]

You know, with Origins I didn't really start to love the game until my third playtrough. That was when I started understand the combat, understand the deepth of the story.

They're very insistent on the idea that Dragon Age is about the world and the way it evolves than any specific character, which I think is interesting. They did put a lot of detail into it and draw a lot of interesting historical parallels.

I actually disagree with this statement. I think this is what a lot of people are having a problem with is that Bioware is telling most of the story and the player is just throwing in a dash of flavor. As opposed to the way Bioware usually trows a lot of chances for the player to take control of the narrative here and there.

Thanks for at least being civil about saying so, unlike the first gentleman who decided to voice his dissent with my assertions. I'm not convinced that this is a good fit for their game, though, or ANY game. There's too much discontinuity, too inconsistent a sense of dramatic context (or even physical context--I have NO IDEA where Kirkwall is supposed to be with reference to everything else). I don't really even feel like it'd make a good movie. Perhaps a decent novel? It really doesn't work for a game, though, especially when it plainly summarizes so many events that sound so much more interesting to interact with than what I'm doing. At the very best it feels like it's rushing to push me towards something they want to build up to, but I have no idea what. I'm just hoping it's interesting.

OP: It does get better, much better.
I'm actually enjoying the first stages of the game now, on my third playthrough.
Just don't stop, restart, new class, thinking it will make it better.
It will actually make it seem worse.

According to this fellow it is. Thank you, I'm happy to hear a clear and concise voice of approval and a bit of advice on how best to adopt the right perspective to enjoy this game. I've actually BEEN restarting multiple times because I keep running through it with friends.

What you do in the beginning is setting up what happens later. You're literally deciding who your friends and enemies will be. The story is cooking for ten whole years, people remember people that cost them money or save them from serious trouble.

This guy too. Actually that seems a very poignant way of putting it and puts a lot of seemingly inconsequential nonsense I'm going through into much stronger perspective. I'll keep going, then, because that sounds quite interesting.

 

[ZephrC]

I think the bit from the beginning to the end of the year of servitude is the only part where things are really disjointed and skipping potentially interesting bits like you seem to be complaining about.

After that it starts skipping way less often and the skipped bits sound way less interesting.

 

[Savagezion]

I actually disagree with this statement. I think this is what a lot of people are having a problem with is that Bioware is telling most of the story and the player is just throwing in a dash of flavor. As opposed to the way Bioware usually trows a lot of chances for the player to take control of the narrative here and there.

Thanks for at least being civil about saying so, unlike the first gentleman who decided to voice his dissent with my assertions. I'm not convinced that this is a good fit for their game, though, or ANY game. There's too much discontinuity, too inconsistent a sense of dramatic context (or even physical context--I have NO IDEA where Kirkwall is supposed to be with reference to everything else). I don't really even feel like it'd make a good movie. Perhaps a decent novel? It really doesn't work for a game, though, especially when it plainly summarizes so many events that sound so much more interesting to interact with than what I'm doing. At the very best it feels like it's rushing to push me towards something they want to build up to, but I have no idea what. I'm just hoping it's interesting.

I have that image as my desktop wallpaper right now on my PC so that I can reference the map with the lore. Lothering was down in Ferelden by the small lake. The witch took you safely to the eastern coast of Gwaren. The boatride took you north to the southern tip of the Free Marches. (Kirkwall) Kirkwall is just north of Lothering right above the delta on the map and right below Vimmark Mountains.

This will help: (Right click and go to view image to blow it up its 1600x1200)

 

[Trolldor]

According to this fellow it is. Thank you, I'm happy to hear a clear and concise voice of approval and a bit of advice on how best to adopt the right perspective to enjoy this game. I've actually BEEN restarting multiple times because I keep running through it with friends.

Well that's going to be a major problem. If you're playing the same parts of the game over and over again, why are you asking if it gets any better?

All I can advise is that you play close attention to your journal. It will tell you when your party members want to speak with you.
You can also use it to organise what quests you pursue.
I deliberately avoid all main quests until the sidequests are completed so that the story flows between each one.

 

[Trolldor]

I'm quite enjoying DA2 but I'm really concerned how long it is. That might not make sense, but given how much of the game is dialog and that I'm already almost 6 hours in in two days (since friday) i'm rather concerned for it's longevity.

Building a decent character is tricky because it's hard (for me, at least) to judge what constitutes a good build. I can see myself respeccing with the black emporuium potion soon.

I'm 35 hours in and just started chapter III. I cannot fathom how some folks beat it so damned quick.

Difficulty and quest management, also how much you invest in world exploration.
I haven't really put myself to the task of exploring for resources yet, and there are still 2 achievements related to bosses I haven't unlocked yet, so I know there are at least 2 major quest chains I'm missing.

 

[Knight Templar]

Implied spoilers ahead.

While I'm sure moving safely to Gwaren and then sitting in the hold of a boat for days would be thrilling to you, most people might not agree.

Also how the hell would that be a good way to introduce the Qunari?
"Oh hey see that thing that isn't nearby?"
"No"
"That's a Qunari!"

As I understand it they're seafarers and rather warlike. A clash with a bunch of Quanari during the storm that actually gets them stranded in Kirkwall seems a more effective means of introducing them than just SAYING they got stranded in a cutscene, which is lazy, while also establishing the tension between us and them in a more direct fashion.

The Qunari are not seafarers. They live very far away and on an island however, so they would use ships to travel. Their ships are dangerous because they have cannons, the kind which would destroy most ships at a range.

The reason the Qunari are there and that your idea wouldn't work is part of the story and will reveal itself in time.

Seems like we don't have to do a whole lot to provoke them into attacking our ships.

You do, out of their lands anyway.

I'm just saying, it felt like a missed opportunity for both some heroics on the player's part and an event that can possibly lead to a good inciting incident within the story.

And I am pointing out that the story would make less sense if that did happen, but I can't really explain why without giving away spoilers.

All I'm saying is that there ain't anything terribly strong for me to glom onto. Yeah, I've got a goal--get 50 gold. Why?

So you can stop being poor and stop living in the slums.
Thats a very straightforward goal that most people could get behind.

All I'm asking here is if this game eventually does as well. There's no need for you to take such a tone with me over it, I just want to know so that I can give it a fair chance. :\

I don't know what tone you mean. As I said you seem to take issue with the storytelling itself so this isn't likely to be the game for you. You will not receive a single simple overarching goal of "end the blight" or anything along those lines for example.