Does free will exist?

[Your Fearless Captain]

"I have noticed that even people who claim everything is predetermined and that we can do nothing to change it look before they cross the road." - Stephen Hawking

That pretty much sums up my view.

 

[Sniperyeti]

I'm a follower of determinism, but I believe we need to act as if we have free will otherwise the structure of human society will fall apart.

I believe we have free will, though admittedly having no way to prove it. However, I believe free will is something we have to choose to use, and a lot of the time we default back to determinism.

I'm pretty sure the arguments of hardline free will and hardline determinism are mutually exclusive. You can't 'fall back' on determinism - if it is the correct theory then all actions are governed by what has already occurred, and free will is impossible.


Edit: Annoying how many people come to a post about a philisophical question just to say 'it doesn't matter'.

I can, and indeed will declare that the two are not mutually exclusive. Perhaps determinism is the wrong word, "nature" perhaps, but I firmly believe that just as there is an art and a science to everything, including art and science, the human mind can contain both.

What does art and science have to do with it? We're talking about all your actions being measurable responses determined by the environment. I'm not even sure where the basis for free will lies, maybe you can explain. Why should there be such a thing?

 

[Wuggy]

Well, we certainly have an illusion of free will. I'm not a theist, and yet I don't believe in absolute free will, but on purely on physical basis: basically, if we could detect every single particle in the universe, we could predict their movement in relation to each other, which means we could tell the future with certainty from human behavior to natural disasters and weather. And this possibility ultimately denies the existence of free will in the strictest definition.

 

[Joccaren]

The universe is deterministic. The state it is in now determines the state it will be in in the future. As such, the cause of the effects that will make your brain think and your body move have been pre-determined since the beginning of time. It is our consciousness that gives us the delusion of free will.
At least, that is what some scientists are stating.
In addition, before you think of anything, your subconscious brain has already started processing data, likely informing your conscious of what 'you' are thinking. If your subconscious knows what you will do before you do, and possibly tells you what to do, where is your free will?

Really, Free will is one of many illusions we live with and become so comfortable with that we usually don't think about it, much like our sense of sight. For all intents and purposes, we are a brain in a vat, however instead of a supercomputer giving us our input, our senses are, and we create illusions based off what they tell us.

 

[Jake the Snake]

I personally believe free will is an illusion. You are the person you are based on the experiences you have, and each new experience you take or experience that's made is merely the culmination of every other moment up until that point in your life. You can't help but act the way you're going to act. People may say, "Well, that's bull, my life isn't predictable. I could out on the street and get hit by a bus, right now. What do you say to that?" What I say to that is: You could, but you most likely wouldn't. And that's the point. You could do all of those, but based on your life and what you've experienced thus far, there's most likely nothing to warrant it, and thus it can be predicted you won't jump in front of a bus. Same principle can be applied to everyday acts: if you get coffee in the morning, how you behave in front of the opposite sex, whether or not you study for a test, etc. We're all on a path that's already been laid out for us, it's just bewilderingly complex.

 

[ascorbius]

We are all just incredibly complex machines which respond to various stimulations and act upon them. Everything from light, electricity, chemical reactions and arrangements in the brain to store, recognise and act on these stimulations... coupled that we're all interacting with each-other - providing each-other with stimulation, it is very easy to forget that in fact, we're just data processors.. free will is just a term we coined to make us feel better about this whole situation.

Every decision you ever make is the result of trillions of tiny stimulations from an almost infinite number of sources. We have as much free will as a ball rolling down a hill.

It's just physics.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

It depends what you define as free will.

Are we following a constructed path of thought? Highly unlikely, as it would require an immense plan that is so intricate that it deliberately counters all efforts to undermine it.

If we're talking a set of choices that are determined specifically by the multiple variables in our past, then that's highly likely, as we have no ability to alter our thoughts based on future, or even present, variables.

So in all likelihood, we have a undetermined train of thought built from external influences. Which isn't really free will.

 

[Agent Cross]

Some of these arguements against free will seem more closely related to choice and instinct to me. Which IMO are all closely intertwined. But I'm no physicist/biologist or whatever ...ist. Unlike everyone else on the webs. Just an Escapist.

OT: Gun to my head. I'd say yes, I do have free will. Why? Well that's simple. I have freedom of choice, and no matter what limits there are to those choices. I have free will to make those choices

 

[gLoveofLove]

I'm a soft determinist. So in other words, I believe both that determinism is true and that I have free Will. I may not have been able to choose who I was born as, but since then I have used the tools that I have to decide who I want to be.

 

[s0p0g]

well, as there are fMRTs of the brain, and brain SPECTs that show it (free will) doesn't exist, i guess it don't.

 

[Nimcha]

I'm a soft determinist. So in other words, I believe both that determinism is true and that I have free Will. I may not have been able to choose who I was born as, but since then I have used the tools that I have to decide who I want to be.

This is my stance too. As with so many things, it's not really a question of either/or.

 

[dogenzakaminion]

I would say yes, but there's no way I could prove or convince you if you think otherwise. It largely depends what human/societal model you subscribe to, and even then you could argue that "since there's no way to test if the person would have made a different choice, we have to assume he would always make the same choice." Having studied sociology and human behavior, I make the choice to say yes we do, based on my interpretations of what I have seen and researched.

 

[Berenzen]

I am a full on atheist and believe that the brain and the mind(consciousness) are one (monism), yet I do not believe that free will exists. This is because the brain produces chemicals that determines what we do. Even if posed with a situation, our brain will be the one that comes up with the decision before we even realize it.

 

[Dastardly]

A thought struck me while reading the replies on the thread about what makes us human. A few mentioned free will. But lately I've been wondering if that really exists.

Considering biology, society, language and history affect all of us, do we really have free will as such, or are we governed by everything around us? After all, we can choose not to eat, for a time, but eventually have to if we want to survive. And then it's our body that decides if we want something spicy, sweet etc.

What's your take on this? Do we have free will at all or just the illusion of choice?

(Yes, I realise this thread's been done before, but not for quite some time. This thread again, but with new opinions, hopefully.)

From my thinking, it exists to a degree. And the meaningful debate happens when we try to hash out where, in our "decision-making process," the line is crossed.

But the reason we never get to that part is because both sides of the fence are deathly afraid of the middle. The "free willers" take free will to be the world's biggest "given"--it is assumed that it's there, and that everyone already agrees on its existence and meaning. The "determinists" don't want to allow for any free will, because it causes the Mind (no matter how small or large a role it may play) to be this mysterious outside "X Factor."

Of course, the free willers think that determinists are exercising free will without realizing it... and the determinists just think the free willers were pre-determinied to be free willers.

 

[Atmos Duality]

For all practical purposes, we have enough of a fascimile of free will, that the argument is purely semantics; what you define as "will" determines your answer.

A determinalist will define it as a series of chemical and electrical reactions; and they will try (in vain) to prove that all of your actions can be predicted down to the letter, assuming unrealistic, "idealized" scenarios.
(I so commonly see this used as a Nihilist/Fatalist argument against morality and rational judgment since nothing we do matters to the universe)

A spiritualist/theist/etc will argue that there is a more proactive, immeasurable force at work, and will try (in vain) to prove that it exists (similar in logic to how it is also "idealized" though in a slightly different sense).

But when you get down to it, life is a statistical anomaly created under the most obtuse of physical and chemical conditions. The quickest, most powerful superconductor supercomputer we can build will never be able to perfectly account for all the responses in the human brain to the point where it becomes perfectly predictable (there are a large number of complications here; the only reasonably predictable behaviors are those you program into the system; everything else is but a guess).

In short: don't fret about what the "scientists" tell you about Free Will. It doesn't mean a damn thing for all practical purposes. You will still wake up, eat, sleep, shit, work etc until you die.

 

[ImmortalDrifter]

As a fatalist, I would say no. But it all comes down to your prospective. You can say a man chose to do something, or you can say he was destined to do it all along.

 

[conflictofinterests]

This is a wrongheaded question. The truth doesn't matter so much as the belief, because a belief in free will or determinism creates a world of difference, whereas the fact will never change.

 

[Spectral Dragon]

Well the fact that you're questioning whether or not free will exists is effectively proof of free will, as without it the question would never have arisen.

Not really. It just means I responded to stimuli - another thread on here - combined with my natural curiosity, of which I've never had control of, compelled me to do it. I could have resisted, but that is a hypothetical scenario that doesn't exist in this universe. It was a choice, but a logical one. I'm not saying free will doesn't exist, but just because I question something does not mean I have free will. It only means I have consciousness.

 

[Jackhorse]

Free will, two possible interpretations.
The first is the common view that free will is being able to do what you want without constraint. This makes you a slave to your desires, you are not free to do anything but satisfy your every fickle wish. If you do not desire to satisfy a desire, the desire not to satisfy is also a desire and indulging it makes you no more free.
The second is free will through self control. Kant argued that by utilising your reason and intellect you are made free. You are no longer an animal of indulgence who thinks that to be free is to be unchained but a man who realises that freedom is to be found in philosophy and science. When no action is taken to bring about a desired end but rather one that make you a better person, then you are free. Chemistry and socioty no longer tell you what you want because you want nothing.

I'm a fan of the second kind as you might've gathered.

TLDR: Doing what you want is not freedom, doing the right thing through understanding and intellect is.

 

[zxcvbnmas]

''Does free will exist?''

Sence we all live in the matrix

NO!