Does humor suspend moral?

[Comocat]

I think a good example of is the current Jimmy Kimmel controversy where people are riled up that a young kid said "we should kill all the Chinese" in response to a national debt question. A Chinese guy in my lab is all fired up about it and said there was a protest today in front of the station. He tried telling me it was a terrible thing to say and what if he wanted to kill all Americans. I told him if an 8 year old chinese kid thinks killing all americans is a good idea, I do not really care that much.

 

[LittleBumble]

I feel that you can make a joke about any subject, it's not really a moral decision.

But I will agree with the people who say that knowing your audience and watching your execution is key. I also want to add that what I find to be the truly tasteless thing is the response of 'Oh stop being offended! I can make this joke if I want!' because:

A) It's hypocritical, if you are free to make your joke the other party is just as free to respond as they see fit, regardless of whether or not you agree with their response. They don't automatically lose their right to respond simply because they aren't giving you the response that you were looking to get. It's a two way street.

B) It's as some others have said: If you are going to say something you know may cause a stir you better be hella prepared for the results of whatever comes out of your mouth. Being free to say what you want, including making off-color jokes, does not mean you can say what you please without expecting backlash. It means you are trusted to have the capacity to think and understand the repercussions of what you say and are willing to face them. Just going 'I can say what I want, so shut up!' is just a dodge of any responsibility for what you say and it's incredibly immature.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Suppose you think you know this person and don't think they'll find it offensive at all. That should cover up for you, right? Worst case scenario they turn out to be more sensitive than you thought they were.

I'm of the opinion that your intent when telling the joke will usually cover you. If you were genuinely trying to be funny, then I couldn't really get mad. Exceptions obviously apply. Like if your sense of humour is so horribly off-colour that nobody could find it funny. Or if you're obviously trying to be funny, but at someone's extreme expense (See: bullying).

The example I usually give is making a dead baby joke to a woman who, unbeknownst to you, has recently suffered a miscarriage. Terrible faux pas, right? The appropriate response is not to then go "Fucken freedom of speech ***** I can say what I want!". Right?
But if your mission was to try and make the person laugh, I'm sure you'd immediately apologise. Which I think would be fine.

I apologized for hurting her feelings/annoying her, but not for the joke itsel, which I still think is funny. There are people out there who just have no sense of humor. Why should we cushion comedy for a few humorless saps who can get themselves offended by anything?

 

[Fractral]

I'd say that you can make jokes about whatever you want and don't have any obligation to apologise should someone find them offensive; that said, it is probably a good idea to apologize sometimes unless you like having no friends.
It's a problem here in Britain where stupid outdated libel laws mean that people can and have been sued for making jokes about politicians or- gasp- retweeting said joke. (Indeed, a famous scientist was sued by the chiropractors association for publishing scientifically valid research suggesting that chiropractors are useless. He won in the end, fortunately.)

 

[Thaluikhain]

I'd say that you can make jokes about whatever you want and don't have any obligation to apologise should someone find them offensive; that said, it is probably a good idea to apologize sometimes unless you like having no friends.

Exactly.

You can make jokes about more or less whatever you want. People can judge you on the jokes you made.

Your freedom of speech is not being affected if people decide they don't like you because of what you say.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I don't know. I often wonder when humor, and by extension entertainment, became some absolute good that must be defended at all costs for its own sake. Morals are supposed to be the highest goods we have, when humor is added to that mix and seems to supplant all others it doesn't make sense to me. What is the real value we are protecting here? A chuckle? Our own entertainment and other's "right" to be entertained? Free speech?

Now, Free Speech is its own entity. It has value beyond entertainment. It's the ability to speak out against bad things and about good things and express your opinions freely without risk of harm from some regulating entity. It is not the ability to speak about all those things without risk at all, however. All Speech can have consequences from other Free Speakers and still be quite Free.

If I walk into a biker bar and loudly express that I think bikers are the scum of the earth as my opinion, there will be consequences for that and they have nothing to do with censorship - they have to do with the reaction my chosen time and place of that expression have created for myself. Similarly, if someone uses a racial slur around me they will get a lecture. I'm not censoring them, I'm responding to their expression with my own expression and those two happen to be in competition and so an argument is likely to ensue. Same with tasteless humor. Some people are going to take exception to a joke that offends them and they are going to respond. That's their right as much as it is the person making the joke to make the joke in the first place. They can demand an apology and then it's on the joke maker to decide if they are going to meet that demand or ignore it. Thing is, the offended party may or may not have leverage they can bring into play to strengthen that demand. That's its own element, but it is not a hinderance of Free Speech unless the offended party is in a position to actually regulate that speech officially and bring some type of preventative sanction against the offending party. If rape jokes aren't made illegal, for instance, then Free Speech isn't being infringed upon - even if someone who makes a rape joke is protested daily for the rest of their days at all their shows - they still have the Free Speech to keep on making that joke, and keep on reaping the consequences of their use of that Speech.

 

[loc978]

Easily offended people will be easily offended. Personally, I'm of the mind that speech cannot be amoral. Sticks and stones and all that... lived by it since attaining the age of reason. I have no understanding of people who get offended and think it's some kind of big deal.

Spoiler: obligatory Stephen Fry quote

Spoiler: related, I think

Specific example: as a war veteran who lost a lot of friends, a few of whom I witnessed the final moments of... I still laugh at dead soldier jokes. So to the easily offended, I can only say toughen up. It never gets any easier, but you can choose to work past it rather than curl into the fetal position and die... or harm anyone over mere words. That's just being childish.

Mind you, I still walk on eggshells when I'm around easily offended people... but I do so in the full knowledge that those people are just assholes, and I choose not to associate with them whenever possible.

 

[viscomica]

Stephen Fry is so full of wisdom.

Also, as lawyer you are forced to divide things into "legitimate claims" (meaning the guy whining about sth has experienced certain damage in their life by the joke: for instance a politician or a certain man of prestige has lost it and really needed it for the kind of work they do) and .... well, just whining! Anyone has the ability to get offended by a joke, sure, freedom of speech is for everyone, but... you can't actually think of yourself as someone legitimated to act on it. Besides, half of the time I turn on the TV I end up being offended at some point or another, I just turn it off and think "well, ain't that guy a douche" then go about my day. Easy as that.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Nothing is beyond humour. Nothing. Don't make me crack out my (friend's) dead baby jokes. I only make jokes that I truly think are funny and my sense of humour is pretty good. I *am* English though and half our humour is ripping the absolute piss out of each other. I hear that's not so accepted across the Pond though so I generally avoid it on the forums. In fact it got me a warning the once. He's on my friend list so it's obviously a joke! GAWD!


And the fuck is a Dickwolf? Maybe I should keep up with the webcomics these days.

 

[RanD00M]

I am personally of the opinion that if you can't make fun of it then you can't talk about it in a serious light. Can't have one without the other and all that.

 

[Saltyk]

In my opinion, nothing is taboo. Everything can and probably should be made fun of. I applaud Penny-Arcade for (as far as I know) not caving and keeping the dickwolf strip up on their site. In the same venue, I applaud Newgrounds for keeping Rapelay on their site.

If something offends you, good. You're alive. Everything will offend someone. Saying God offends some people. Saying Happy Holidays rather than Merry Christmas offends others (and apparently saying Merry Christmas offends someone). If we censored ourselves because someone was offended, all language would be banned. Or we'd become the neutral planet.
"I have no strong opinion on that statement one way or the other."

So, once more. If you are offended by something, good.

 

[Your Fearless Captain]

There is a literary term that I can't translate to English but means this: something that, when made fun of, is funny, but when you think about it seriously it's really just sad. The thing is, you can make a rude but funny comment and tell it in a way it's obviously a joke and not your own personal take on the subject. My point is: everything can be funny if you know how to make it funny. Funny does not equal politically correct or even polite and people need to stop taking personal offense in that.

Out of curiosity, what word in what language are you talking about?

OT: I think that asking someone to apologize for having bad taste is in itself in bad taste.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

You have the right to make a joke of any quality. In fact, barring a few things, you can say anything you want. But, people have all the right in the world to be offended, to be insulted and to not enjoy your joke.

No, they don't have the right to tell you that you cannot make such jokes, but if you don't take into consideration who you're telling the joke too, and you offend someone, you are in the wrong.

Sure, it's fine to make a drinking and driving leading to death joke. You shouldn't feel bad for telling such a joke, unless you told it to the victim of such an incident. Like a mother who lost their son to such an accident, at that point, your 'comedy' protection wears off and you're an ass hole.

 

[saruman31]

Some people will always be offended no matter what you do. Humor should not be censured.

 

[Skull Bearer]

I heard a quote about comedy which I think pretty much sums up the situation here: "Humor only really works when its coming from the powerless against the powerful. The other way around and it's just crass. A janitor making jokes about a CEO is funny, a CEO making jokes about a janitor is just nasty."

This is something to keep in mind when making 'offensive' jokes. Are you punching down, or up? If you're telling a Holocaust joke, is the butt of the joke the victims, or the Nazis? Because one of those is funny, the other is making fun of people who have suffered enough without being mocked. Same with rape jokes. Is the butt of the joke the rapist (or the society which tacitly condones it) or the victim?

Becuase the difference is that between an outrageous joke that makes you laugh at much in horror as not, and you being a colossal arse.

 

[babinro]

Yes.

I'm of the belief that you can say just about anything you want because all that really matters is the context. I'm not personally offended by a racist/tasteless/crude joke because the intention is typically shock value humour and not to promote hate.

This is why I find it sad when public personalities have to apologize to the masses for a comments that were merely unprofessional. The party they were speaking to never seem to be the ones that are asking for the apology either. Our world just seems WAY to sensitive.

Note: I don't actually enjoy racist/tasteless or crude jokes.

 

[BarbaricGoose]

Anything can be funny, but unfortunately I think some people take that to mean "You're not allowed to be offended if it's funny."

If you wanna make a 9/11, or a dead baby, or a rape joke, go for it, but don't expect that just because you're making a joke everyone has to accept or like it simply because it was a joke. It's like how some people think freedom of speech also grants them freedom from criticism.

 

[viscomica]

There is a literary term that I can't translate to English but means this: something that, when made fun of, is funny, but when you think about it seriously it's really just sad. The thing is, you can make a rude but funny comment and tell it in a way it's obviously a joke and not your own personal take on the subject. My point is: everything can be funny if you know how to make it funny. Funny does not equal politically correct or even polite and people need to stop taking personal offense in that.

Out of curiosity, what word in what language are you talking about?

OT: I think that asking someone to apologize for having bad taste is in itself in bad taste.

Hmm, according to my sister it's called "humorismo" in Spanish. She made a (kind of) rude joke to her best friend using that word and it stuck.