Donald Trump's Captain America?

burnout02urza

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A thought from another thread:

Comics, in one way or another, have always reflecting the zeitgeist of the era. And this is especially pronounced when it comes to Captain America/Steve Rogers as an icon.

To illustrate, I refer to Cap in the 70s where anti-authoritarianism was a thing, and he fought crime first as 'The Captain' and later as 'Nomad'. Well, when the Summer of Love became the Autumn of Disillusionment, and then the Winter of Selling-Out Big Time, Steve was right back to Captain America again.



The next change I've noted was Bucky (i.e. the Winter Soldier) as Captain America. He was probably the best of the successors, the same way Dick Grayson is naturally the best successor to Batman (Though Batman of the Future and the demon-possessed Damien Wayne by Grant Morrison are also pretty good.)



The thing about Bucky as Captain America - and the Dark Reign that followed - was that it really reflected a lot of our post 9/11 paranoia: A grim, murky world where anything could be justified under the broad cloak of anti-terrorism. Anyway, fast forward about ten years, and the most recent event goes something like this:

Captain America had the super-soldier serum drained from him by the Iron Nail, and ended up an old man. After Secret Wars and an encounter with the Cosmic Cube, he's a young man again. Currently, Sam Wilson - The Falcon - has inexplicably been chosen as Captain America despite being very poorly qualified for the role.



And, as you'd expect, Sam's recent stories have been about fighting evil right-wingers - usually in the form of serpent-themed supervillains. We've seen the 'Sons of the Serpent', who want to keep out illegal immigrants; then we've also seen a rather ham-handed reference to Black Lives Matter, with Sam battling the 'Americops', a private army of law enforcers created by a powerful Republican businessman.

There's also a movement, in-universe, to get Sam to give back the shield to Steve Rogers. (#givebacktheshield, because OF COURSE.)

Now, here's the thing: Steve is evil, now. The Cosmic Cube is fucking with his backstory, so he's always been a Hydra sleeper agent. He's also deliberately working to undermine the Avengers and everyone involved, though his master plan is ultimately to kill the Red Skull so maybe it's for a worthy cause after all. The next big event is Captain America: Hydra War, where he ends up inciting a Civil War within Hydra.

I don't think the writers at Marvel understand quite how damaging this is, though. Captain America is, in a very real way - At least in-universe - an icon. He's a bastion of incorruptibility. He's more memorable than the President, who comes and goes but Steve is a constant.

By retroactively making him a Hydra agent, that casts everything he's ever done into question. Now, it's not clear if his backstory is being actively rewritten, or just his memories...But it's the equivalent of seeing Barack Obama (for example) go down on one knee, and pledge his alliance to the leader of ISIS and the Caliphate to come. You just can't shake off a stain like that! It'd be impossible to trust Steve, ever again - It's like if Superman was revealed to be an actual child-molester.

But I've been wondering - Now that Trump is president, is everything going to change?

Hydra Captain America proves that Steve's staunch defense of 1940s values with a bit of modern liberalism is a lie. Like, every word from his mouth is now spoken in mockery, in a Nazi's sneer.

At the same time, liberal values are going out of style. America proved that when Trump was made President, and gloriously so. Diversity is nonsense, social justice is twaddle, and America must protect it's own interests first instead of spreading the failed cult of neo-liberalism which crumbled when Europe couldn't deal with the refugee crisis.

With Trump's victory, the Overton window is being pushed in one direction:

Hard right.



So Sam is finished as Captain America. He's over, done with, if he isn't shuffled off with gay Alan Scott (remember that) and black Power Girl as vaguely embarrassing products of a dead era. Kamala Khan might end up deported or in a camp, so Ms. Marvel is done, too. (Since Carol's basically a neo-fascist in Civil War II, the Captain Marvel name is hardly covering itself with glory.) Jane Foster as Thor is going to be done soon, too, since Thor has already discovered another hammer.

So my question is - What will the new Captain America be like?

What will the Captain America of Trump's era be? Well, unless comics plan to flagellate themselves for the next four to eight years, they're going to have to adjust to the reality of the world we live in.

Personally, I think he's going to be Chris Kyle with superpowers. White, of course, probably an Afghanistan veteran (Ooooh, topical!) who's cut his teeth battling terrorists. More authoritarian, certainly, and hopefully a discreet user of firearms.

It's not like there isn't precedent: The following is Corporal James Newman from the Captain America: The Chosen miniseries, who inherits the mantle (Sort of. It's complicated) by the end of six issues. I have to say, I'm liking him a lot more than Sam already.



I bet he's going to spend most of his time battling suspicious foreigners, recidivists and Islamic fundamentalists. Perhaps he'll literally fight to Make America Great Again, in contrast to the liberal cesspool the Red Skull has openly mocked on multiple occasions.

What do you guys think? What does a hero for the modern day look like, assuming he isn't wearing a rainbow flag and safety pins? Will tears be shed at the triggering presence of another cis white male protagonist?
 

Thaluikhain

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Wasn't the Comedian from Watchman based on Captain America, or am I misremembering?
 

burnout02urza

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Technically, the Comedian is supposed to be Peacemaker, the same way Nite Owl II is the Blue Beetle and Dr. Manhattan is Captain Atom. (Rorschach is The Question, while Silk Specter is Black Canary/Nightshade.)

The Comedian was a DC property. But if he resembled any Marvel character, he was closer to the Garth Ennis Punisher (i.e. Vietnam War) instead of Captain America (WWII.)
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Sam Wilson, Steve Rogers' friend and side kick for over 40 years, is very poorly qualified? Captain America, literally always fighting for the little guy, fighting recidivists? What does that even mean in this context?

You're saying this guy:


This guy:


This fucking guy:


And you think Marvel's going to turn him into a Chris "I joked about climbing on top of the Superdome to kill looters during Katrina" Kyle proxy? Because a dude won the presidency by the skin of his teeth while losing the popular vote?

Are you high?
 

burnout02urza

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I'm saying they're going to have to replace Steve Rogers.

After all, they already turned him into a Nazi, didn't they?

I'm saying that this guy:



...is currently the embodiment of American values.

Yeah, it's not an alternate universe, and not a shoop. This is what's happening now.
 

Thaluikhain

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altnameJag said:
And you think Marvel's going to turn him into a Chris "I joked about climbing on top of the Superdome to kill looters during Katrina" Kyle proxy? Because a dude won the presidency by the skin of his teeth while losing the popular vote?

Are you high?
It would be a terrible move to make, but that's not to say the are immune from that sort of mistake. The whole Hydra agent thing was pretty bad.

Now, doubt it'd be due to Trump, and it'd be surprising if it happened, but it's hardly outside the realm of possibility.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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burnout02urza said:
I'm saying they're going to have to replace Steve Rogers.

After all, they already turned him into a Nazi, didn't they?

I'm saying that this guy:



...is currently the embodiment of American values.

Yeah, it's not an alternate universe, and not a shoop. This is what's happening now.
That's time travel shenanigans/mind control. Two of the most easily forgiven or explained away maladies that exist in comic books. At most it means that Sam Wilson stays Captain America for the foreseeable future.
 

burnout02urza

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Sure, but this isn't like the time Spiderman got possessed by Doctor Octopus and became a douchebag. (Which really, just shows that Marvel civilians are apathetic idiots.)

This is a national icon. It's someone you could - without question - trust. The one other time Steve acted really weird, it was obvious he was begin possessed by the Red Skull. But after this? It's impossible to trust Steve - or the values he's formally epoused - again.

Just think about it. The questions are going to be: "Holy shit, he's a Hydra agent? HOW LONG has he been a Hydra agent? You mean - all that time, during WWII - he was secretly serving the Red Skull? How much damage did he cause...And how much do we NOT know about?"
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Sure, people are going to say "all that time he was fighting the Nazis and the Red Skull, repeatedly foiling their plans, he was actually working for them. Instead of thinking that's really odd how he was constantly foiling the plots of his bosses, we're going to ignore possible explanations about his behavior and go straight to doubting him, because we're going to forget magic and time travel are things that exist."

I mean c'mon. They got through a skrull invasion recently. After events culminate, Steve Rogers will be distrusted for like, a year tops. And Sam Wilson will still be Captain America, because why would they replace him?
 

bastardofmelbourne

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burnout02urza said:
I'm saying they're going to have to replace Steve Rogers.

After all, they already turned him into a Nazi, didn't they?
They retconned it already, didn't they? It was just Red Skull fucking around with the Cosmic Cube.

My impression of the whole Hydra twist was that it was an extremely poorly executed attempt at meta-humour by a fairly mediocre writer. Anyway, this thread is kind of dumb. You already have a conservative Captain America. He's in the Ultimate [http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116880/2989264-7076132903-capta.jpg] universe.

And a bunch of comic writers aren't going to do a 180 on their preferred flavour of literary didactism just because Trump is president now. Trump's not the goddamn editor-in-chief.
 

burnout02urza

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altnameJag said:
Sure, people are going to say "all that time he was fighting the Nazis and the Red Skull, repeatedly foiling their plans, he was actually working for them. Instead of thinking that's really odd how he was constantly foiling the plots of his bosses, we're going to ignore possible explanations about his behavior and go straight to doubting him, because we're going to forget magic and time travel are things that exist."
Yes, exactly!

That is what ALWAYS happens. Spidey's still on the hook for the Superior Spider-man.

Also, the Red Skull and Hydra are up and running around now, aren't they? Almost as if Captain America was...softballing them.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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Err...what?
What has a fumbly dumb bear stumbled into? So many words read yet so little said.
From what scraps the confused mind has gathered; CA represents public opinion and now CA is a nazi sleeper agent, so all hope is lost and we should accept president Trump attempting to make America great again? Because niche (in comparison to non-comic entertainment) present comics now dictate our reality? Or the hive mind of reality dictates comic plotlines? Or...comics incredible influence mold the hive mind of the public opinion?
Where's the rum? This isn't for the sober mind.
 

bastardofmelbourne

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Xsjadoblayde said:
Err...what?
He's basically saying that because:

(A) writers try to infuse their characters with contemporary political themes - whether as commentary, satire, or just trying to stay relevant;

and because...

(B) Trump's election represents the culmination (and some would say, validation) of a broader backlash against the contemporary internet crusade For Great (Social) Justice;

that therefore;

(C) : A "Trump-friendly" reinterpretation of Captain America is on the horizon.

It's a flimsy conclusion, because the two operating propositions are debatable. Writers do look to contemporary politics for inspiration when writing politically-themed works, but it does not follow that writers mimic mainstream political values like propaganda parrots. Just look at Frank Miller; he's been a nutjob crazy neo-conservative ever since the mid-80s, and he hasn't changed a jot, God bless him. Similarly, Nick Spencer - for all his misguided attempts at satire - isn't going to flip on his lifelong ideological principles as soon as the ride gets a little bumpy.

And Trump, for all his bluster and refusal to acknowledge any fault, isn't representative of any kind of large ideological movement. He has more detractors than supporters - even his own supporters in the alt-right treat him largely as a figurehead, a wrecking ball intended to do as much damage to the establishment as possible.

Learn more about how dumb Trump is in the R&P Section! "R&P: Where yesterday's hopes become tomorrow's nightmares!"

*advertising jingle*
 

Catnip1024

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Well, they were almost guaranteed to reimagine the guy at some point in the near future anyway, it's just a question of how. And whether it affects movie rights.

Samtemdo8 said:
Wasn't Trump reinterpreted as the Red Skull?
The crazy skull guy makes some good points. I think we should stop judging him based on his appearance, and let him speak some more...
 

Level 7 Dragon

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bastardofmelbourne said:
Learn more about how dumb Trump is in the R&P Section! "R&P: Where yesterday's hopes become tomorrow's nightmares!"

*advertising jingle*
I am holding on to my theory that the Alt-Right and Wild West are domains of the chaos gods and those threads are miniature versions of "The Eye of Terror"
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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bastardofmelbourne said:
And Trump, for all his bluster and refusal to acknowledge any fault, isn't representative of any kind of large ideological movement. He has more detractors than supporters - even his own supporters in the alt-right treat him largely as a figurehead, a wrecking ball intended to do as much damage to the establishment as possible.

Learn more about how dumb Trump is in the R&P Section! "R&P: Where yesterday's hopes become tomorrow's nightmares!"

*advertising jingle*
No need to advertise! I still mull about in the shadows trying (and often failing) not to give in to the frustrating urge to post before a more eloquent and efficient human articulates the points across. It gets easier everyday, when not looking anyhow.
Hmm, all the comic speak must have distorted my sensors on the initial read, it did feel like reading a truther blog at the time, and the brain does get agitated when being subjected to extended chunks of misinformation like that. ;)
 

Fox12

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It's a comic book. Captain America will probably be a cis-gendered wart hog next year. And they'll change his backstory so that he was always an alien prostitute from the moon. Secretly.

Thaluikhain said:
Wasn't the Comedian from Watchman based on Captain America, or am I misremembering?
I think he's essentially just a deconstruction of all the heroes that carry that mantle. Captain America, sure, but probably people like superman too. I think Alan Moore was being an idiot when he wrote that character, though. As if the American people would ever try to defend a rapist/molester, and then label him a hero...