Don't Write Kinect Off So Early

[Crunchy English]

So.. awesome for Kinect

On the 360
System - 300
Kinect - 150
= $450 dollars

360 is the best price going!

360 system = 300 dollars
2 more controllers = 64 dollars(32 each from Amazon.com)
Games actually being good = Priceless
Total = 364. 86 dollars cheaper for something already better.

EDIT: Actually, I am being too nice to Kinect. I forgot that 300 dollar packs come with 2 controllers already. So I edited it.

So...awesome for 360 then? If you don't want motion control, then its cheaper without it. In comparison to the other models for motion control, Kinect is much cheaper. Let me put it this way: if you want a spoon and someone offers to sell you a fork at half price, that doesn't really help you. That doesn't mean its not an awesome deal for a fork, its just not what you want. What this tortured analogy means is that committing a logical fallacy doesn't make Kinect a bad deal... for people who want to play motion control party games.

If you're just pissed off that there is such a thing as motion control then price doesn't matter... you're just out of luck. A shame that a group of people with more money than you DO want motion control I guess.

EDIT _ Bad form to edit this, but I forgot to mention: could you name 4 games on the 360 that allow you to do 4 player local multiplayer without Kinect? Because I can think of Halo and Madden and that's pretty much it.

 

[Mako SOLDIER]

Even if it was perfectly responsive, Yahtzee made the perfect point that controllers only serve as a communication method between you and video game. And this only makes it harder to control, not easier.

Yet if it would have been cheap enough, I bet the majority of people would have wanted the extra immersion that something like the Steel Battalion controller could provide. The controller is an extra step between player and game. The more natural that controller is, the more immersive the experience.

Not necessarily. It was an effective controller because it was properly laid out and it was proper for the complexity of the game. The authenticity of the controller and the immersion were an afterthought and it didn't sacrifice playability or responsiveness at all. Which is more than can be said for Kinect and other motion controllers.

The autenticity and immersion weren't an afterthought at all, they were part of the original point of the game. The creator wanted you to be unable to play the game again if you couldn't shatter a glass panel to hit the EJECT switch qickly enough. He had to back down and implement continues and a plastic flip-cover over the switch, but the controller was still part of the original design. Until people have actually used Kinect, there is absolutely no evidence for the statement that it will sacrifice playability or responsiveness, that's just an assumption. Sure, the Wil did that, because the technology was flawed. Even the motion+ needed constant recalibration. With a camera that's not the case. I'm not saying you can't be right on this (you might indeed), just that at the moment the evidence really does point the other way. Kinect is, from specs and demonstrations, easily capable of some very exciting things. If the developers screw up then yeah, it'll just become another crappy gimmick, but when one of them actually gets it right it'll be something pretty darned special. Can anyone say an elder scrolls game where the speechcraft skill is replaced by your actual ability to logically barter with the AI? You could still be sitting down with a controller, but your voice and facial expressions would play a huge part in the game. Or how about a boxing title where you can actually duck and weave realistically (if anyone mentions Wii boxing, yes, it was rubbish, but that's becasue it tried to simulate boxing with the wiimote and nunchuck combo. That was never going to work)? Full body motion mapping in a boxing title is something that could work ridiculously well. Dragon based flight sim where you flap your arms like wings and roar for bursts of acceleration? You'd get tired (and have to fly to a suitable safe perch to roost and recover),sure, and you'd look and sound a little (or a lot) silly, but I bet you'd be grinning like an idiot by the end of it. There are so many possibilities that people are overlooking because they'd rather just dismiss anything new.

It will come down to the software, because the potential is there. Thing is, of course there will be shovelware, that's sadly Nintendo's biggest(and worst) achievement with the Wii: proving to MS and Sony that shovelware sells, but there will hopefully also be games that do something new and different with it (or just do something different with the genres we already love). It's way too early to be writing it off without thinking about it.

Okay, dude. PARAGRAPHS. Please, I am not going to read another brick of text.

Besides, you missed the big part: It didn't get in the way of the gameplay. It, in fact, improved upon it. Right now, all motion controls do is replace buttons. Replacing in game motion for waggles. Games are incapable of properly responding to your actions. And it never feels immersive enough because there's no force feedback. Or anything at all.

What we need to make strides towards is mind controls. The technology is there but it is imperfect. It will be a wonderful day when your brain sends the signal to run through the controller and your character actually runs.

I didn't miss the 'big part' at all, it was irrelevant when you have yet to give a reason why Kinect is incapable of improving upon the gameplay of a given game. You claim that all motion controls do is replace buttons to control in-game motion with 'waggles' when not even the Wii is guilty of doing that with every game. Lazy developers do that, the technology doesn't.

Games have never had a way of reading a player's actions this clearly before, so of course they have been incapable of responding. Now, they will in fact be capable of responding to your actions if the developers feel that those actions are relevant to the gaming experience they intend to create. Again, the developers will have to do a good job with both the potential and any limitations of the technology.

Force feedback? Really? How on earth can you champion force feedback as some kind of holy grail of immersion while completely discounting the notion of a character that actually does exactly what you do? Immersion is literally just that: immersing the player in the game world. What better way to do that than to make their real world actions part of the game? we're not talking about 'waggle a stick to break free of a zombie' here, we're talking 'dive to the floor to avoid taking a spear to the head'.

So, hang on a second. Your now comparing a pice of actual working technology with 'brain control', an experimental tech that currently only really works as a 2-way switch capable of only producing a positive or negative result. Jeez, people are saying that a cat walking into shot might screw with Kinect and you're advocating a control method that (if it ever got that sophisticated) would go haywire if someone's mind wandered? You do realise how immensely difficult it would be to hold only a single thought in your head consistently when bombarded with the kind of emotional stimulus found in the average game? And you claim that motion control is limiting?

If your idea of an ideal game is 'think happy thoughts to go forward, think anything else to stop' then I'll pass thanks. I think I'll leave that to cheap 'Jedi Trainer' toys from Argos.

Seriously, you're dismissing something you clearly haven't paid any real attention to with no real evidence other than essentially "Well, the Wii has been a bit crap, so obviously all motion control will be". I'm not going to put any more energy into this debate, as it seems that you're pretty irrationally inflexible on this topic. I wish you no ill will, but I just hope that if truly ground breaking Kinect titles do indeed come along that you won't be too stubborn to give them a shot.

 

[Cody211282]

I'd just like to say and discuss that the fact that everyone is writing Kinect off 5 months early, yet no one here has gotten a chance to play it. Everyone has the same argument about how:
'I'm not paying $150 for a controller.'
'The Kinect doesn't have quality launch titles.'
'Justin Bieber's advertising it!'

Well I think it sucks because:

If I'm paying $150 for retarded motion controls I might as well pay $200 and have retarded motion controls with Metroid.

The launch titles are crap, they look like Wii rejects(and that's saying something).

And motion controls are only useful in crappy minigame full titles so why would I even be interested?

 

[Jezzascmezza]

I don't know who justin bieber is.

Wow, how big's the rock you've been hiding under for the past year or so?

 

[Zaik]

I don't know who justin bieber is.

Wow, how big's the rock you've been hiding under for the past year or so?

Pretty damn big.

Also i don't remember the last time i watched tv.

 

[alloneword]

I don't like that while playing a Kinect game you absolutely have to be standing...

Nope, sorry, it has been confirmed that you absolutely do not need to be standing. In fact, it was confired about 2 weeks ago.

Proof please.

Done.

http://www.oxm.co.uk/article.php?id=20402

-bows graciously-
Then I concede my point.

 

[mada7]

I've written off kinect because it is imposssible to move a character in the game from one end of a room to the other without having an infinitely large room or walking into your tv. The leaning thing doesn't work because if you want to move your character forward for a prolonged period of time your back will start to hurt if you have to bend forward to move. All this thing can handle are on rails games, dancing, or minigames it's so limiting

Lean forward to accelerate or start moving, stand up straight to maintain speed, lean back to decelerate. Ok, so there could be other solutions, but it doesn't take a genius to think up a couple. Besides, if running on the spot works for the 100m hurdles in Kinect sports then you could just walk on the spot, there's no need to walk across your room. You could steer by moving one hand to any edge of the screen (not neccessarily right at the edge, just within a certain distance of, perhaps it could even turn faster the closer your hand is to the edge) to turn that way and the other hand for gesture based commands etc. Seriously, has anyone who is already dismissing Kinect actually thought about it for more than 5 minutes?

Having to constantly lean will cause back problems if you play for any significant period of time and hypothetically what if I wanted my character to walk in place. Also the running in the games you mentioned that uses that is on a track that you are nailed to a game like gears of war or halo necessitate moving in a 3D space

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I'm just sitting at the side-line enjoying the boo-ing. KinetAnimals or whatever seems interesting, moreso then the PS3 equivalent where you can only have a mutant alien-monkey, especially when you believe, as I believe, that the best kind of pet is the kind you don't have to feed or clean up after.

On the whole, Natal could turn into this generation's Virtual Boy. So could Move. I'm just going to wait and see.

As a sidenote...I though MILO was just a hyper-advanced tech demo. I don't see how Milo could possibly work as a game unless it is a weird kind of dating sim. Or something worse...

[mental image]

[/mental image]

 

[capin Rob]

No thanks, I just rite that shit off, for I already have A WII, don't need another one, I would rather Buy a ps3 just to play MGS4,

 

[soulasylum85]

i have a wii and it doesnt get played. mainly because I LIKE USING A CONTROLLER and motion controls will never give you the percision and control that an actual controller does. i just dont see myself wasting my money on any more novelty shit that will just sit on my shelf and collect dust

 

[Sapphire Angel]

Kinect is an experiment, as with the playstation move as far as I know. So if it doesn't work, they upgrade it, it's the start of something and while it may not be perfect, it has a good idea behind it, while it might need some polish and revision.

It could evolve into something that will be the next big revolution. Wether or not someone buys it is up to them, I, for one, and going to try it.

 

[ragestreet]

I didn't like the eyetoy. I didn't like the wii's motion controls. There is very little chance I'll like the Kinect.

 

[Varun Garuda Maharaj]

i think its mostly the high price and justin bieber

 

[MinishArcticFox]

Whether or not $150 is set in stone or not the price will likely be somewhere around there. With regards to launch titles I didn't buy that "the later titles will be better shit" when the PS3 did it. Microsoft will be phazing out the 360 in a couple of years anyway and the kinnect will go with it it doesn't have long to get good at what it's trying to do or get good games out there. For 100 plus dollars I won't get it.

Plus the E3 demo was horrible and Justin Bieber advertises it which means that it isn't even pointed at my demographic which means that it's likely not even Microsoft thinks I will like it.

 

[Mako SOLDIER]

I don't like that while playing a Kinect game you absolutely have to be standing...

Nope, sorry, it has been confirmed that you absolutely do not need to be standing. In fact, it was confired about 2 weeks ago.

Proof please.

Done.

http://www.oxm.co.uk/article.php?id=20402

-bows graciously-
Then I concede my point.

Very gracious indeed.

Of course, that doesn't mean Kinect won't be rubbish, but I'm hoping it won't. I keep coming up with half formed ideas for it Now I'm wondering if a game where you play a monster of some sort could have a mechanic where you pull faces to scare cowardly townsfolk

 

[Citrus]

It's the sort of thing where you really don't have to try it to know whether or not you're going to like it.

 

[Mako SOLDIER]

I've written off kinect because it is imposssible to move a character in the game from one end of a room to the other without having an infinitely large room or walking into your tv. The leaning thing doesn't work because if you want to move your character forward for a prolonged period of time your back will start to hurt if you have to bend forward to move. All this thing can handle are on rails games, dancing, or minigames it's so limiting

Lean forward to accelerate or start moving, stand up straight to maintain speed, lean back to decelerate. Ok, so there could be other solutions, but it doesn't take a genius to think up a couple. Besides, if running on the spot works for the 100m hurdles in Kinect sports then you could just walk on the spot, there's no need to walk across your room. You could steer by moving one hand to any edge of the screen (not neccessarily right at the edge, just within a certain distance of, perhaps it could even turn faster the closer your hand is to the edge) to turn that way and the other hand for gesture based commands etc. Seriously, has anyone who is already dismissing Kinect actually thought about it for more than 5 minutes?

Having to constantly lean will cause back problems if you play for any significant period of time and hypothetically what if I wanted my character to walk in place. Also the running in the games you mentioned that uses that is on a track that you are nailed to a game like gears of war or halo necessitate moving in a 3D space

I see your point, but it would depend upon how far the person leans. A quick lean forward to accelerate followed by standing up straight isn't going to strain the back at all. Hypothetically there could be a trigger such as holding one hand up in a 'stop' gesture whilst walking would cause you to walk on the spot. Still, I don't see any reason to want to walk on the spot in a game.

Well, yes, the running is on rails, but it still essentially reads 'walking motion = go forward. Speed of walking = character speed'. That could work. Gears could easily involve those controls to move forward, the hand based steering I mentioned previously, and a sidestep in order to sidestep or roll. Ok, so the 'duck and run' (for some reason the actual name of the run has fallen out of my head) would need to do something different, but that's still doable (shout a warcry whilst running for instance).

The only thing I can't think of a pretty simple and intuitive solution for is strafing. Of course I could just fall back on leaning again, but considering how much strafing people do in shooters, your point about back strain might come into play here. Still not sure about that though, plenty of sports people have to do far more strenuous movements with their backs for longer periods of time that a 1 or 2 hour gaming session. Personally, I think the likelihood is that a few people may pull a muscle if they overdo it, but the majority would actually find it beneficial in the long run. If someone is going to seriously harm their back from a bit of leaning, then I'd imagine they have some serious fitness problems already. After all, you don't find workout videos being recalled for giving people back problems.

Since Capcom are so keen on using classic Resi 'tank controls' with a not-far-off-first-person viewpoint, a Resi game would easily be able to use the control ideas mentioned above and in my post that you quoted.

 

[Jamie Doerschuck]

To be fair Madworld, and Dragon Quest Swords are actually pretty good. Muramasa The Demon Blade has a love/hate relationship depending on the person. And of course you could wait it out for the new Kirby, Zelda, DK and Metroid. The rest I will admit, is crap.

But that's exactly the point. Other than maybe five or six games they all suck. Personally I feel like the motion controls take you more out of the immersive experience than putting you into it. Because after a while of sitting with a controller you don't think about pushing the buttons so much, but that can't really happen with motion controls. Since you have to think a lot more about moving your entire arm than just moving your thumb. And with the Kinect I feel like all of the jumping around is actually going to distract me from the actually game rather than enhancing it. I'll just be more concerned with not hitting anything..

 

[Nwabudike Morgan]

I haven't written it off, I just haven't been sold on it yet.

 

[I Max95]

nothing to do with the price, the games or justin beiber
i just generally dont want to stand up while playing a game
i generally dont want to involve my entire body in a game
i generally dont want to look like an idiot while playing
need i go on