Don't Write Kinect Off So Early
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Slow how? It would be much more realistic as it would replicate a person swinging a real weapon. And what's the issue with standing up? I'm perfectly fine with standing.migo said:
myself, I'm actually looking forward to it. That's mostly because I'm a late adapter to this sort of technology... as in, I still don't own a next gen system yet. (I still play my PS2)
My reasoning? Price and time. As a parent (what, you think the username was just for show?), I don't have much time or disposable income to spend on gaming paraphenilia. So when I DO buy a console, I want to make sure I can get as much use out of it as possible.
And let's face it, 500 dollar price tag for something that only I can enjoy myself just doesn't sit right with me.
So naturally, this means that I would want to get a Wii, right? I mean, it's got family fun written all over it.
except, the games I want to play are not on it. So that means by getting that, I deprive myself of games that I would REALLY like to play.
Enter the kinect. for me, the kinect can resolve this situation once and for all. (If the titles coming down the pipeline don't end up being cheap Wii title knock offs, that is)
Having said that, I think the kinect is a terrible strategy. The reason why is because in terms of competing for the same downstream market that the Wii has zeroed in on, the platform that the Kinect sits on is a lot more expensive, and has a lot less content to go with. So from a NEW sales point of view, they're looking at basically just guys like me. (which is probably not a huge market segment)
In terms of gamers who ALREADY have the platform? well, that's a whole different thing all together. We're talking about a demographic of people who either 1. don't want to have anything to do with the Wii-type games or 2. people who already own both.
For group 1, that's not even a viable market and for group 2, the switching cost just adds another entry barrier.
The ONLY way I can see this work is if devs start coming with some TRULY awesome titles for the kinect. (i.e. a good fighting game that not just detects the position of your gloves but your WHOLE BODY? sign me up!)
The problem is that such games are almost entirely new territories. Most motion sensor games usually have some kind of periphal input device to get around the problem of detecting the input motions. Games without an extra input device usually are limited to just detecting presence, instead of also incorporating input.
This is the major hurdle that game devs for the kinect must overcome. They have to be able to create a way of getting input that extends beyond just presence capture. i.e. how will they know that a punch is a punch, or a kick is a kick? how will they calculate proper strength input? there are a bunch of questions that need to be answered even before the actual game development begins.
And even IF they square away the technology requirements, they then need to actually, you know, make a good game out of it. This means that the company who would want to make games for the kinect needs to first overcome the R&D cost and then they have to put their first string team to develop a kick ass AAA title for it.
Consider the corporate philosophy of most game publishers as of late, it is doubtful whether or not they would actually do that.
My reasoning? Price and time. As a parent (what, you think the username was just for show?), I don't have much time or disposable income to spend on gaming paraphenilia. So when I DO buy a console, I want to make sure I can get as much use out of it as possible.
And let's face it, 500 dollar price tag for something that only I can enjoy myself just doesn't sit right with me.
So naturally, this means that I would want to get a Wii, right? I mean, it's got family fun written all over it.
except, the games I want to play are not on it. So that means by getting that, I deprive myself of games that I would REALLY like to play.
Enter the kinect. for me, the kinect can resolve this situation once and for all. (If the titles coming down the pipeline don't end up being cheap Wii title knock offs, that is)
Having said that, I think the kinect is a terrible strategy. The reason why is because in terms of competing for the same downstream market that the Wii has zeroed in on, the platform that the Kinect sits on is a lot more expensive, and has a lot less content to go with. So from a NEW sales point of view, they're looking at basically just guys like me. (which is probably not a huge market segment)
In terms of gamers who ALREADY have the platform? well, that's a whole different thing all together. We're talking about a demographic of people who either 1. don't want to have anything to do with the Wii-type games or 2. people who already own both.
For group 1, that's not even a viable market and for group 2, the switching cost just adds another entry barrier.
The ONLY way I can see this work is if devs start coming with some TRULY awesome titles for the kinect. (i.e. a good fighting game that not just detects the position of your gloves but your WHOLE BODY? sign me up!)
The problem is that such games are almost entirely new territories. Most motion sensor games usually have some kind of periphal input device to get around the problem of detecting the input motions. Games without an extra input device usually are limited to just detecting presence, instead of also incorporating input.
This is the major hurdle that game devs for the kinect must overcome. They have to be able to create a way of getting input that extends beyond just presence capture. i.e. how will they know that a punch is a punch, or a kick is a kick? how will they calculate proper strength input? there are a bunch of questions that need to be answered even before the actual game development begins.
And even IF they square away the technology requirements, they then need to actually, you know, make a good game out of it. This means that the company who would want to make games for the kinect needs to first overcome the R&D cost and then they have to put their first string team to develop a kick ass AAA title for it.
Consider the corporate philosophy of most game publishers as of late, it is doubtful whether or not they would actually do that.
Sure, but the majority of the people who want to sit on the couch all the time aren't exactly the target audience of the Kinect.migo said:
I can understand your optimism, but I really expect Kinect is going to be bad. My original reaction to the Star Wars trailer was good. It looked awesome.
And then I realized that you could only move with that awkward little glide forward at timed intervals.
And that's because there was no way to direct your character's movement in any world larger than your living room; you have to stay in front of the camera, after all. If a game requires your character to move in any autonomous capacity, Kinect can't translate it.
And then I realized that you could only move with that awkward little glide forward at timed intervals.
And that's because there was no way to direct your character's movement in any world larger than your living room; you have to stay in front of the camera, after all. If a game requires your character to move in any autonomous capacity, Kinect can't translate it.
You know what I'm more curious about? If the Kinect at this stage can translate more minute movements like say, can it detect if my fingers are opened or close? can it detect the twist in my wrists? can it communicate when something is done more forcefully than others or is it just limited to speed?
the reason why I'm asking is because one of the things that I still haven't seen much of is a proper sword fighting motion control game. In any given sword fighting game, I can expect to see something that allows you to block (in a game with a periphery input device, the position of the sword acts as the "is it blocking" detection). If the kinect or the move can detect smaller joint manipulation, you can easily get around the peripheral input issue.
the next major hurdle is how to effectively translate body motion of a sword fight? since sword fights require you to move all around, the kinect or the move would have that problem right there. That is, you have to always return to the center. So there's already a limitation on movement.
the reason why I'm asking is because one of the things that I still haven't seen much of is a proper sword fighting motion control game. In any given sword fighting game, I can expect to see something that allows you to block (in a game with a periphery input device, the position of the sword acts as the "is it blocking" detection). If the kinect or the move can detect smaller joint manipulation, you can easily get around the peripheral input issue.
the next major hurdle is how to effectively translate body motion of a sword fight? since sword fights require you to move all around, the kinect or the move would have that problem right there. That is, you have to always return to the center. So there's already a limitation on movement.
Aye. But there is one thing the Kinect has that actually goes in Yahtzee's favor.ilovemyLunchbox said:
"Hey Xbox, play me some music." I really think that voice recognition thing, in combination with the human-recognition thing, is really something that could revolutionize home entertainment. Not hardcore gaming necessarily, but home entertainment without a doubt.
let's also not forget that yahtzee assumes that all gamers would rather be couch potatoes if they had a choice. I'm pretty sure there are gamers, "hardcore" or otherwise, who would LOVE to have say, a shooting game where they actually have to dodge and move.
Dont be so thankful just yet. It is a very very vague statement that does not say anything regarding gameplay while sitting down.Mako SOLDIER said:Very gracious indeed.alloneword said:
Of course, that doesn't mean Kinect won't be rubbish, but I'm hoping it won't. I keep coming up with half formed ideas for itNow I'm wondering if a game where you play a monster of some sort could have a mechanic where you pull faces to scare cowardly townsfolk
http://kotaku.com/5565777/xbox-kinect-does-not-play-well-with-couch-potatoes
see the update on the end of the article regarding pr doublespeak and whatnot.
Not to mention the implementation of it all is very very difficult e.g on the Your Shape: Fitness Evolved game, we can see what the IR camera sees. And really, if you sit down, there's no software on the world that can recognize the skeleton when you "join" a couch. And Microsoft probably doesn't want to use the RGB Camera to help this, as Microsoft is always saying: it works in ANY light conditions.
So they're probably left with 2 implementations:
1- skeleton - needs to be standing
2- limbs - it shouldn't be hard, with little calibration, to recognize your limbs. The problem is that it probably loses the calibration as soon as you rest your arms or legs close to the couch.
PS Move is actually very different from the Wii.lostzombies.com said:
From what I've heard, The PSmove tracks your whole body from the position of the motion controller, whereas wii just track the sensor on the controller which as far as i know is very basic motion sensing, even with Wii motion plus.
Also PS move holds an advantage to Kinect as it still has buttons, which Xbox game developers now need to find ways to replace the use of buttons with something else.
I just cant see anything past gimmick possibility. So many games require you to move ingame ways that are physically impossible for you or me to do. (Prototype per say). So we are looking at wii sports rehashes. I dont see lasting apeal.
All you people just keep in mind that nobody ever said you can't hold your controller while using the Kinect.
I'd like to the the facts to back up "there's no software on the world that can recognize the skeleton when you "join" a couch". Also, where did you get the information from that Your Shape uses an IR camera? As far as I'm aware, there is no IR camera in Kinect. Just because it displays the player's shape in red doesn't mean it's IR.TheGuy(wantstobe) said:Dont be so thankful just yet. It is a very very vague statement that does not say anything regarding gameplay while sitting down.Mako SOLDIER said:Very gracious indeed.alloneword said:
Of course, that doesn't mean Kinect won't be rubbish, but I'm hoping it won't. I keep coming up with half formed ideas for it
http://kotaku.com/5565777/xbox-kinect-does-not-play-well-with-couch-potatoes
see the update on the end of the article regarding pr doublespeak and whatnot.
Not to mention the implementation of it all is very very difficult e.g on the Your Shape: Fitness Evolved game, we can see what the IR camera sees. And really, if you sit down, there's no software on the world that can recognize the skeleton when you "join" a couch. And Microsoft probably doesn't want to use the RGB Camera to help this, as Microsoft is always saying: it works in ANY light conditions.
So they're probably left with 2 implementations:
1- skeleton - needs to be standing
2- limbs - it shouldn't be hard, with little calibration, to recognize your limbs. The problem is that it probably loses the calibration as soon as you rest your arms or legs close to the couch.
As for the rest, isn't that just stating the obvious? Some games are going to require you to stand up, others aren't. No fitness title is ever going to work if you can use it while sitting down, and facial/voice recognition etc doesn't necessarily have to be part of a game that involves full body movement.