Double Standards You Allow

[RatRace123]

Reading about the interview with Gary Oldman where, without really going into much detail on that topic or whether or not I agree with him, since that's a different topic altogether, basically he shoots himself in the foot during the interview while discussing "Political Correctness" in Hollywood, a topic that's very obviously irked him for quite a while.

He specifically mentions how satirists like Jon Stewart and Bill Maher are able to get away with saying racier things due to their positions as comedians, and this note in particular struck a chord with me.

See, I love comedy. I grew up watching a lot of stand up comedy, so I've always had an appreciation for it. So, on this level, I actually ended up agreeing with Gary Oldman somewhat. I'm way more inclined to let satirists and comedians get away with saying bigoted things than some average jerk on the street, who I would probably think is just being a dick.

'Cause to me, there's always been a very distinct difference there.
And I've made this argument before, using a rather divisive comedian, Daniel Tosh. Tosh is, no lie, one of my favorite comics, and his style is very crass and brutal insult humor, yet out of his character up on stage he seems like a very nice, decent guy.
And I've been thinking that there's a deeper level to his humor than is first apparent... and I'll admit this could absolutely be me reading way too much into this, but beyond just the shock laughs that he gets by saying these absolutely outrageous things, there's the meta joke at the expense of the audience who laugh at this stuff and Daniel himself who's constructed his stage presence as this just, absolutely offensive, hateful, selfish person.

In my mind, comedy takes way more work and thought behind every offensive statement, at least, from the really good comedians, which makes it a hell of a lot different than some jackass who just wants to be able to use the "N" word and not get called a dick for it.

And I'll admit I may give too much credit to the comedians of the world, and too little credit to the random guys of the world, but that's just how I process that sort of situation.

So, that's my take on it. My question to you, dear escapists is: Do you have any personal double standards like that which you allow from yourself or a specific type of group, but not from another?

 

[Lieju]

Well, obviously there's behaviour I'll allow from some people I'd consider differently if it came from someone else, because context matters, but I don't think that's a double standard.

For example the same gay-joke has different connotations if it's told by a gay person than if it's told by a straight person, because in the former case the context makes it clearer it's not a joke on gays but a joke on stereotypes or certain kind of behaviour or something.
If it's told by a straight person it can come across as a member of the majority attacking minorities.

I don't think 'it's just a joke' is a free pass to say whatever.
But it matters what the joke is on. For example if the comedian plays a character who says horrible things, the joke might be on the character, and that kind of behaviour.

Depends on the context.

I try not to have double standards, but I think often things are mislabelled.
For example, if you're okay with a fictional character that has been traditionally male being made female in the new reboot but not the opposite, that's not a double standard.

Because the argument isn't just 'there should be more female characters'.

It's 'there should be more diversity', and one of those things is a step forwards it, the other is not.

 

[shootthebandit]

It annoys me how left-leaning people like Bill Maher are just as bad as some of the right-wing nutjobs. People seem to forget this, I personally am more left-wing but I think people like Bill are just crocks. Its a massive double standard and I think if people take him seriously they should also take Ted Nugent seriously

double standards for me is driving offences. Im the worst person for speeding on motorways (although the UK is bringing in a £10000 fine (which is stupid because motorways are where you should be speeding. Germany knows the score) so ill have to stop now). Ill be doing 90-100mph and ill be like "out my way, hurry up you bastard" then at other times ill be doing the speed limit and someone will tailgate me and fly past and ill think "what a bellend" then ill realise that I am that bellend

 

[RatRace123]

double standards for me is driving offences. Im the worst person for speeding on motorways (although the UK is bringing in a £10000 fine (which is stupid because motorways are where you should be speeding. Germany knows the score) so ill have to stop now). Ill be doing 90-100mph and ill be like "out my way, hurry up you bastard" then at other times ill be doing the speed limit and someone will tailgate me and fly past and ill think "what a bellend" then ill realise that I am that bellend

Oh yeah, speeding. Can't believe I forgot that one. When I do it, I just want to get some place quickly and it's perfectly understandable, but when someone else does it, they're clearly an asshole that think's they're so important and can't be bothered to slow down.

 

[shootthebandit]

I don't think 'it's just a joke' is a free pass to say whatever.
But it matters what the joke is on. For example if the comedian plays a character who says horrible things, the joke might be on the character, and that kind of behaviour.

Most jokes have a subject and a target. In your example lets say the character is a racist, the target of the joke would be him and his racism and the subject would obviously be race related. People often dont get comedy especially black comedy where the subject is pretty dark and they confuse the target and the subject. Good examples of this are Django unchained and the GTA series. Grand theft auto holds a mirror to society and pokes fun at it. Yes there is a brutal torture scene but that particular scene pokes fun at how the CIA deal with terror suspects and not the victims of the torture.

Edit:

Spoiler: GTA V

when trevor took the detainee back to the airport I had an internal nod of approval. The fact the the most comically immoral man (yet more proof why the subject and target are completely different) can show an ounce more compassion than the CIA

 

[SirDerpy]

Hypocrisy. I allow it for myself but not for anyone else.

Now as to whether that's extremely meta or just the definition of the word, I'm not quite sure.

 

[Nimzabaat]

Well the double standard I dislike the most is that it's fine to use racial slurs against any race as long as you're not white.

The other double standard I have trouble with is that it's free speech unless it's speech you don't like. Then that "free speech" goes out the window. I have heard some people saying "well it's not consequence free speech". If it's not consequence free then it's not actually free now is it?

I don't get people who like jumping on the hate-wagon in these cases (Gary Oldman, Mel Gibson, even that Sterling guy). I have parents that are in their 70s and they have trouble watching what they say. It gets harder to keep up with what's PC when you get older and a lot of people don't realise that or don't care until it happens to them.

 

[Happiness Assassin]

It annoys me how left-leaning people like Bill Maher are just as bad as some of the right-wing nutjobs. People seem to forget this, I personally am more left-wing but I think people like Bill are just crocks. Its a massive double standard and I think if people take him seriously they should also take Ted Nugent seriously

^^^THIS! 1000 TIMES THIS!

Even though I agree with a lot of what Bill Maher says (being left and all that), he just comes of as one of the most smug, self-righteous people I have ever heard.

OT: My double standard is that I can say all the shit I want about how my family acts, but if I hear anyone else say anything bad about them, they better have a good fucking explanation. If you are not personally affected by their actions, then sit down and shut your goddamn mouth.

 

[Vault101]

MRA is not "the same" as Feminism

getting Harrased for shitty/bigoted veiws is not the same as getting harrased for being x

when I listen to American rap I think "awsome" when I listen to Australian rap I think "ughhh [i/]bogans[/i]"

see when Geogre Carlin goes on about all the dumb people its cute and funny...when YOU do it your just an asshat

Well the double standard I dislike the most is that it's fine to use racial slurs against any race as long as you're not white.
.

thease are about ones your more or less cool with

which brings me to my next one...I have no desire to use the N-word and a white person using the N-word without any context or joke is just...ewww

 

[Winthrop]

If it's not consequence free then it's not actually free now is it?

If the consequences are social its still free speech in my mind. So like if I tell someone they are fat and they get mad at me and call me a jerk, we are both exercising free speech even though I get a social consequence. If I said someone was fat and was thrown in prison for it, then my speech would not be free. I'm totally okay with people being hated, fired, divorced, ridiculed, and suffering from what they say as long as no institution is directly inhibiting their speech. If the government kills me for what I say, my speech isn't free. If no one listens to what I say, it is free.

OT: In elementary school, the teachers would give rewards to bad students who got their grade up but not to students who had high grades the whole year (even if it was higher than the improved grade). This bugged me a lot as a kid because I hated the idea that if I slacked off and didn't do work the first few weeks of school I'd get candy and rewards and stuff. Looking back though, I see that the issue was that the kids doing well were internally motivated and the other kids were externally motivated and would not do well without the rewards. I see now that this method was just to get the most kids to succeed even if it is unfair.

 

[Nimzabaat]

these are about ones you're more or less cool with

Oops! My bad.

But fair enough, double standards that i'm cool with... I tip servers based on appearance first, attitude and service second? It's not cool but I do.

 

[Something Amyss]

I try not to tolerate double standards even within myself. The biggest issue there is being aware of them. I don't like slurring groups of people, but I grew up with "retarded" in my vocabulary. I am aware of this, and I work on it, but sometimes it comes out. Sometimes, I will call someone a retard or say something is retarded. But I don't think it's good.

When my actions are pointed out to me, I seek to modify my behaviour. Nor do I think it's particularly kosher in friends, family, or whatever. I would like to think I'm free of double standards, but I'm probably not. I'm not intentionally allowing it, either.

I don't think 'it's just a joke' is a free pass to say whatever.
But it matters what the joke is on. For example if the comedian plays a character who says horrible things, the joke might be on the character, and that kind of behaviour.

Depends on the context.

There's a lot to be said for context, but I also think it's easier to forgive if a comedian's joke is, well, funny.

There's also intent, but that can go to the question of who's saying it and context and it's sometimes hard to tell intent.

It's easier to assume no malicious intent when gays make gay jokes or blacks make black jokes because there's less likelihood of internal hatred or animosity than external. So yeah. Now I'm talking in circles.

I personally am more left-wing but I think people like Bill are just crocks. Its a massive double standard and I think if people take him seriously they should also take Ted Nugent seriously

I'm trying to think of the last thing Bill Maher said that could be construed as a threat to anyone's life or wellbeing.

Don't get me wrong. Bill Maher's only semi-scientifically literate and has weird, religulous beliefs about things like GMOs and vaccines, but just because they both say stupid things doesn't put them on par.

MRA is not "the same" as Feminism

What's especially disturbing there is how many of the MRA groups held up as "the good ones" have some really horrific stances. Like the Indian "family" group that thinks banning marital rape will stop families from functioning. I just....Ugh.

And also

I have no desire to use the N-word

It kind of....It kind of troubles me that so many white folk do. Especially when you see them using it in what would be an inherently negative context.

Obviously, #notallwhites are using it in a negative context.

 

[Keiichi Morisato]

the double standard that i let someone get away with is with my sister. she will get made, blow up, and speak her mind. but i am not allowed to do any of that otherwise i will get my face beaten in.

oh wait you are talking about double standards in society and stuff right? the one that gets on my nerve a lot is the fact that it's no racism if you are racist against white people, and we are simply expected to suck it up.

 

[Callate]

Generally speaking, if you're part of a group, you're allowed to defame and make generalizations about it, to an extent. Because in doing so, it's (usually) recognized that you're being self-deprecating, not hostile.

If you're not part of that group, it would be wise to watch yourself- even if you're making exactly the same generalization. Because you're it's no longer being self-deprecating- it's being insulting, trivializing, even demonizing.

Many people could stand to learn this, particularly the ones that want to pat themselves on the back for "engaging in productive dialogue".

 

[cypher-raige]

MRA is not "the same" as Feminism

They are both largely the same.

Redundant ideologies that aim to bring about equality while exclusively focussing on one gender.
If you read social media you will find sketchy individuals in both groups.

 

[Vault101]

They are both largely the same.

Redundant ideologies that aim to bring about equality while exclusively focussing on one gender.
If you read social media you will find sketchy individuals in both groups.

Feminism came about in reponse to a very REAL inequality between men and women..which still exists in certain ways today (and afects men too)

MRA came about on the very shakey notion that men (straight white men more specifically) are somhow the opressed ones in our society

 

[cypher-raige]

Feminism came about in reponse to a very REAL inequality between men and women..which still exists in certain ways today (and afects men too)

MRA came about on the very shakey notion that men (straight white men more specifically) are somhow the opressed ones in our society

Feminism's job is largely done and has little value in modern society. MRA never has much value to begin with.
The best thing to do is to teach equality and equality of opportunity without the baggage of either group.

 

[Colour Scientist]

oh wait you are talking about double standards in society and stuff right? the one that gets on my nerve a lot is the fact that it's no racism if you are racist against white people, and we are simply expected to suck it up.

This is thread is on double standard you allow, not ones you disapprove of.

Also, just because this is probably going to come up more than once in this thread, what people generally refer to in the States as racism against white people is more accurately prejudice or discrimination against white people. You can experience prejudice but racism tends to include elements of race-based group privilege, there're added connotations that white people generally don't experience.

I suppose you can call it racism if you like for simplicity's sake and I'm sure most people here will disagree with me but that's how I differentiate.

 

[Vault101]

Feminism's job is largely done and has little value in modern society. MRA never has much value to begin with.
The best thing to do is to teach equality and equality of opportunity without the baggage of either group.

I don't want a guy telling me what my problems are as much as black lady wouldn't want me telling her what her problems are

point being having everyone sitting around the campire singing kumbya is nice and all but usually its the same people who have the guitar and are choosing the songs...

 

[cypher-raige]

I don't want a guy telling me what my problems are as much as black lady wouldn't want me telling her what her problems are

point being having everyone sitting around the campire singing kumbya is nice and all but usually its the same people who have the guitar and are choosing the songs...

Everybody has problems. Being a certain race or gender does not mean anything.
"I wouldn't expect a guy to understand" and bringing up race as if it's the next stage of victim-hood is completely counter-productive.
The world is a LOT more complicated than "white guy gets a break in society and everybody else is a second/third-class citizen."