Dr Who: Dark Water

Kingjackl

New member
Nov 18, 2009
1,041
0
0
I think it says something that the parts of the episode set in the afterlife were the least surreal bits of it. The whole beginning with Clara going mad, tossing TARDIS keys into the volcano, and the dream-like nature of how the scenes were shot and acted made it hard for me to tell if Danny had even died to begin with. Speaking of which, I felt bad when that happened, because when he walked onto the road I made a joke about how he was gonna get hit by a car.

I love the portrayal of the afterlife in Doctor Who, because it's the most British afterlife you can imagine. Sterile office meetings rooms with coffee and counselling on arrival, full of social workers tutting about the Wi-fi and trying to act chipper. Behind closed doors, I imagine everything runs like an episode of 'Yes Minister'. Of course, the humour only makes the darker stuff all the more horrific. Pretty much everything that happened with Danny after his visitor arrived was heart-wrenching.

I worked out the big twist with Missy before the rest of my family, which is rare. It's a good thing they had that as a backup gut-punch because even without the teaser last week, the Cybermen stuff was really obvious. It is a good concept though; every Cyberman is basically a walking corpse and there would naturally be a lot of them in the afterlife. Makes you wonder why all the Daleks haven't tried to conquer it yet.
 

joshuaayt

Vocal SJW
Nov 15, 2009
1,988
0
0
I really enjoyed Clara's little insurrection- there's absolutely no way it won't be fucking important next episode, it's too big a thing.

I've loved pretty much everything Clara's done this season- She's easily the most autonomous companion, she wants something done and she fucking does it. Yeah, it's shifting the focus off the Doctor a little bit, but that's because they're trying to push just how evenly important the two characters are. Older episodes tended to read like "The Doctor brings his buddies to work!"; these ones are really beginning to feel like Doc and Clara are in a buddy time-cop movie.

Also, Mistress stuff, pretty cool, I like it when they bring up sex changing time lords.
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 16, 2010
15,906
1,507
118
Kingjackl said:
I think it says something that the parts of the episode set in the afterlife were the least surreal bits of it. The whole beginning with Clara going mad, tossing TARDIS keys into the volcano, and the dream-like nature of how the scenes were shot and acted made it hard for me to tell if Danny had even died to begin with.
Yeah, me too.

Kingjackl said:
Speaking of which, I felt bad when that happened, because when he walked onto the road I made a joke about how he was gonna get hit by a car.
Eh, I liked how she stands in traffic on the road where he was hit and killed by a car.

Kingjackl said:
It is a good concept though; every Cyberman is basically a walking corpse and there would naturally be a lot of them in the afterlife. Makes you wonder why all the Daleks haven't tried to conquer it yet.
As mentioned, Revelation of the Daleks featured something similar, only more sensible and with a cool assassin.
 

Gizmo1990

Insert funny title here
Oct 19, 2010
1,900
0
0
Zontar said:
Gizmo1990 said:
Zontar said:
This is now making me thing, weren't some of the people who where taken to 'heaven' from the future on other planets? Am I rememboring things wrong, or is this plot hole #132419428-B that has been created by Moffit?
They were in other times/ on other planets but what Missy is and the tech she is using is an easy way to explain that.
Seems awfully inefficient if that is the case, and still begs the question 'why is it specifically people around the doctor this season'?
That one is also easy to answer

The Master/Mistress loves screwing over the Doctor. Taking people who have had contact with him enables her to learn what this latest incarnation of the Doctor is like allowing her to better mess with him.
 

rosac

New member
Sep 13, 2008
1,206
0
0
I loved it.

I'm no tv snob or critic, and I loved this.

I didn't see the "next week" teaser for this episode, so the Cybermen and Claras insurrection were still good twists for me, Missy's identity being revealed andDanny being killed with no warning was huge as well, I know people ***** about Clara and Danny, but this has allowed a set up for a great ep.
 

Maze1125

New member
Oct 14, 2008
1,679
0
0
Zontar said:
Gizmo1990 said:
Zontar said:
This is now making me thing, weren't some of the people who where taken to 'heaven' from the future on other planets? Am I rememboring things wrong, or is this plot hole #132419428-B that has been created by Moffit?
They were in other times/ on other planets but what Missy is and the tech she is using is an easy way to explain that.
Seems awfully inefficient if that is the case, and still begs the question 'why is it specifically people around the doctor this season'?
From the evidence we have we can say that The Mistress has taken two sorts of people:
1) People from Earth over a significant time period in order to build a Cyberman army.
2) People who died near The Doctor in various time periods.

The reasons for the first we know, while the reasons for the second would presumably be to gather intel on The Doctor's current incarnation.
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 16, 2010
15,906
1,507
118
Maze1125 said:
From the evidence we have we can say that The Mistress has taken two sorts of people:
1) People from Earth over a significant time period in order to build a Cyberman army.
2) People who died near The Doctor in various time periods.

The reasons for the first we know, while the reasons for the second would presumably be to gather intel on The Doctor's current incarnation.
Also, the Doctor doesn't have FB, so you have to cyber-stalk him by stealing the minds of dead people. That sort of thing isn't out of character.
 

ToastiestZombie

Don't worry. Be happy!
Mar 21, 2011
3,691
0
0
That was a pretty good episode. Although I'm hoping now that Danny and Clara seem to be near the end of their arcs we get more time with the Doctor in the next season. A female Master (or Mistress) actually really works and Gomez is a really good actress to play the part, I like it.

That "Don't cremate me" was one of the only times Doctor Who has legitimatelly gotten to me since that Satan episode I watched back when I was 10.
 

VincentX3

New member
Jun 30, 2009
1,299
0
0
This episode while the buildup took pretty long was really really good. (At least compared to most of the episodes from this season)

The thing is...
The master was a guy
Now he's a girl
and he kissed the doctor
... :v
kinky


Other than that can't wait for next week.
 
Dec 10, 2012
867
0
0
Did anyone else catch the name of the guy who supposedly heard the 3 words, and who set up the whole mausoleum of fish tank dead people? Chang said it was "Dr. Skarosa." As in Skaro. As in the homeworld of the Daleks.

Now what could that be hinting at?
 

Kingjackl

New member
Nov 18, 2009
1,041
0
0
VincentX3 said:
This episode while the buildup took pretty long was really really good. (At least compared to most of the episodes from this season)

The thing is...
The master was a guy
Now he's a girl
and he kissed the doctor
... :v
kinky


Other than that can't wait for next week.
As I said on Facebook after watching that: "Tonight, a million Doctor Who fangirls just punched the air."

Which is actually based on a line from the show about Shakespeare being bi. Those fangirls got nothing on me.
 

Sonic Doctor

Time Lord / Whack-A-Newbie!
Jan 9, 2010
3,042
0
0
Tanis said:
A bit irked Missy wasn't The Rani.

Also:
How they gonna explain the whole 'End of Time' deal?
I'm pissed about that same point too. Moffat, ever since he's taken over has missed so many opportunities to make mystery characters a link to original Doctor Who. He miss that chance with River Song(Wish I could erase that time baby shit from existence), and he has missed that chance with "Missy".

Really though, you do realize the reason they revealed Missy as the Master?

If feel this sinister idea has been in the works even all the way back in the first new series when Eccleston's Doctor regenerating saying, "I could change into anything".

Missy being the Master gives way to them to say, "Well there is now no problem with the Doctor changing into/being cast as a woman. We have made it canon." Even though they should know they can't write canon, and this act is against it.

This does not go with original Doctor Who and the canon. The only time that this idea has been mentioned/brought up is in the new series. I really do believe they were planning this from the beginning, they took their time and peppered in things they felt they could say here's why we can now do this.

If this revelation and change that has come with the Master, I believe I'm done with the show. I rather leave and get out before it is totally ruined by people who don't know how to keep a franchise/series structure/canon intact.
 

elvor0

New member
Sep 8, 2008
2,320
0
0
Tanis said:
A bit irked Missy wasn't The Rani.

Also:
How they gonna explain the whole 'End of Time' deal?
Yeah I'm a bit miffed about that too. The Rani was my bet, #2 being a future nutty incarnation of the Tardis, given Missy said "he's my boyfriend". I'd by lying if said I didn't enjoy Gomez playing the character, but I don't like it being The Master. Like you said, he died, I know he's The Doctors nemesis and all, but The Masters arc seemed pretty signed and sealed with The End of Time. The Rani would've been great and fine, Gomez could still play her exactly the same and it doesn't require the need for any icky plot retcons. There's nothing to say The Rani wasn't still out there, kept in hiding or optionally hiding till the time was right, or the fact that Galifrey is actually still knocking about.

I'm a bit dissapointed with myself that I didn't pick up on it being the Cybermen /before/ the episode though, considering the Cyberman eye holes were actually present in the scenes in The Nethersphere before now, I even registered them, just didn't make the connection. My girlfriend picked it up though, perhaps because we've been blitzing through the entire revived series/Torchwood on the cusp of her getting into Who due to liking Capaldi when I was watching it on TV.

Dream sequence with Clara was a bit naff though. I mean not only is throwing the keys away meaningless (The Doctor doesn't need a key!), she must've known that it would be stupid for The Doctor to be prevented from entering his Tardis from something so silly as losing the sodding key ><

Overall, I'll wait till the second part for my judgement. Also, screw you BBC, why on earth would you spoil the reveal moments after the episode fucking aired?!

TheVampwizimp said:
Did anyone else catch the name of the guy who supposedly heard the 3 words, and who set up the whole mausoleum of fish tank dead people? Chang said it was "Dr. Skarosa." As in Skaro. As in the homeworld of the Daleks.

Now what could that be hinting at?
I did not. Good catch. Could either be The Master screwing with The Doctor or maybe it's a bait and switch and The Daleks are playing The Master?

Sonic Doctor said:
If feel this sinister idea has been in the works even all the way back in the first new series when Eccleston's Doctor regenerating saying, "I could change into anything".

Missy being the Master gives way to them to say, "Well there is now no problem with the Doctor changing into/being cast as a woman. We have made it canon." Even though they should know they can't write canon, and this act is against it.

This does not go with original Doctor Who and the canon. The only time that this idea has been mentioned/brought up is in the new series. I really do believe they were planning this from the beginning, they took their time and peppered in things they felt they could say here's why we can now do this.

If this revelation and change that has come with the Master, I believe I'm done with the show. I rather leave and get out before it is totally ruined by people who don't know how to keep a franchise/series structure/canon intact.
I think you might be giving them a bit too much credit on the planning. As much as I feel iffy about The Doctor turning female as long as they get the right person (I don't know /who/ exactly) it could work.

Also,potentially making The Doctor female is "sinister", would "ruin the show" and the straw that broke the camels back, really? Not the dodgy writing, bad pacing, or countless deus ex machina?

Also also, what do you mean by "they should know they can't write canon"? You can be annoyed with what they write as canon, of course, but surely you must realise that who ever is currently running the show is the one who gets to actually decide the canon? I mean...that is why they're called "Show Runner" and "Head Writer".
 

Soviet Heavy

New member
Jan 22, 2010
12,218
0
0
Sonic Doctor said:
This does not go with original Doctor Who and the canon. The only time that this idea has been mentioned/brought up is in the new series. I really do believe they were planning this from the beginning, they took their time and peppered in things they felt they could say here's why we can now do this.
Curse of the Fatal Death, 1999 parody episode. Also, written by Steven Moffat.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

New member
Oct 9, 2008
2,686
0
0
Im really suprised at the big reveal....
You know, this whole time I was tricked. When when she was saying she came back, that she lived in 'heaven' and when she kissed him. Until the last minute I was absolutely convinced she was some sort of angry embittered River Song back from the dead, pissed off at the doctor for leaving him in the library. I suppose she could still be and just be lieing eh? Most of the time I am predicting the return of the master with any character whose identity is vague and this time I was wrong because I was predicting River.
 

Breakdown

Oxy Moron
Sep 5, 2014
753
148
48
down a well
Country
Northumbria
Gender
Lad
I always thought that Missy would turn out to be the Master, basically because I thought that would be the lamest explanation and therefore the most likely. I was actually surprised at how well the twist played out, credit due to the actress in the role.
 

votemarvel

Elite Member
Legacy
Nov 29, 2009
1,353
3
43
Country
England
Didn't like the episode myself.

The small reveal was spoilt in the press several times over and the big one was hardly a shock.

After all there was only a handful of names that it could have been and only one that would have been familiar to NuWho fans.

That's not a knock against people who became fans with the restart. Just that the last thing a TV show wants with a reveal is for the viewers to go, and forgive the pun, "who?"

I like the Capaldi Doctor but I have a big feeling that a lot of the stories for this season were intended for Matt Smith.
 

Sonic Doctor

Time Lord / Whack-A-Newbie!
Jan 9, 2010
3,042
0
0
Soviet Heavy said:
Sonic Doctor said:
This does not go with original Doctor Who and the canon. The only time that this idea has been mentioned/brought up is in the new series. I really do believe they were planning this from the beginning, they took their time and peppered in things they felt they could say here's why we can now do this.
Curse of the Fatal Death, 1999 parody episode. Also, written by Steven Moffat.
Didn't know that existed, when I first got into Doctor Who I search for, read, and watched everything I could find, and I never heard of it.

But then again, if we are talking canon, it doesn't count as in keyword "parody" episode.
But since he wrote it, it does show the sinister plot in his mind, "The Doctor Regenerates into a woman, oh ha ha ha, would that be silly." Of course what he was really doing is slipping in false information to try and get people to think that something like that is possible in the canon, which it isn't.

As far as Moffat is concerned, anything he does that goes against canon, is immediately seen as a non-thing.
For me anything involving Amy and Rory doesn't exist, River Song never showed up again after the Series 4 Library episodes(Because Moffat's explanation of who she was, was pure shit.) For series 5 through part of 7, as far as I'm concerned, the Doctor was unconscious and was having a really stupid nightmare.

Again, the show is headed in the direction I suspecting that Moffat is shifting it, the show will be dead to me. If the Doctor regenerates into a woman, the show is dead, at the point the entity that is the Doctor, is fully dead. Oh and before anybody tries to say it is a sexist thing or whatever, no it has nothing to do with anything like that. It all has to do with canon and sticking to continuity. I would be just as angry if it was a race change or he changed into some non-human looking creature. If people want a show similar to Doctor Who with a female lead, then they should just make their own show, don't mess with things that are established and don't need changing.

I'm seeing a huge pattern of TV and movie franchises I like dieing because people think, well we have to change this up radically for it to stay good and be accepted by more people. Stargate died because of how Stargate Universe was handled(filmed and written). JJ Abrams mucked up and pretty much killed Star Trek with his "Nu Trek", now he's off to ruin Star Wars(have you seen the storm trooper helmets, guess he was trying to get in more lens flare). Even a thing from my childhood like the Ninja Turtles and that shit new movie. When will people learn that in order to keep a franchise good and going is to keep the core of it 100% the same and only change small things that don't mess with story, casting patterns, film style, etc, etc.

But of course no that's not possible, because people don't know when to leave well enough alone, so with the way things are headed, Doctor Who will be yet another ruined and dead franchise.
 

Kingjackl

New member
Nov 18, 2009
1,041
0
0
Sonic Doctor said:
Tanis said:
A bit irked Missy wasn't The Rani.

Also:
How they gonna explain the whole 'End of Time' deal?
I'm pissed about that same point too. Moffat, ever since he's taken over has missed so many opportunities to make mystery characters a link to original Doctor Who. He miss that chance with River Song(Wish I could erase that time baby shit from existence), and he has missed that chance with "Missy".

Really though, you do realize the reason they revealed Missy as the Master?

If feel this sinister idea has been in the works even all the way back in the first new series when Eccleston's Doctor regenerating saying, "I could change into anything".

Missy being the Master gives way to them to say, "Well there is now no problem with the Doctor changing into/being cast as a woman. We have made it canon." Even though they should know they can't write canon, and this act is against it.

This does not go with original Doctor Who and the canon. The only time that this idea has been mentioned/brought up is in the new series. I really do believe they were planning this from the beginning, they took their time and peppered in things they felt they could say here's why we can now do this.

If this revelation and change that has come with the Master, I believe I'm done with the show. I rather leave and get out before it is totally ruined by people who don't know how to keep a franchise/series structure/canon intact.
Okay first of all, why is he obligated to work mystery characters into 'original' Doctor Who? The Master is a character from the original series, so I'm not sure what you're on about there, but is it really so heart-breaking that River Song ended up being an original creation rather than a call-back that would have confused new fans and (inevitably) angered old ones? If you were in charge of the show, wouldn't you rather use the boundless resources available to actually create new content and add to the universe instead of wallowing in old stuff?

And I agree, making the Master a woman is basically guaranteeing that the same will eventually happen to the Doctor. But again, why is that so bad? People have been calling for a female Doctor for years, I'm sure a lot of them were pleased now it's confirmed possible. They'd already hinted at gender-swapping regenerations before (I think there was a reference to that in Neil Gaimen's TARDIS episode), I don't think it's going to 'ruin' anything. Besides, Doctor Who canon is looser than the Simpsons' at this point. The Master came back from the dead unexplained last night, the Daleks and Cybermen have been doing it since time immemorial, and at the end of the day we're going to keep watching them.