Dragon Age 2 leaked
- Thread starter znix
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I still think piracy boils down to "would you rather have everyone playing and many of them enjoying your creation, or would you rather have a comparatively small number of people playing your game with an even comparatively smaller number enjoying it?"
I don't think money should be an important factor in deciding your sales model. Notch wants as many people as possible to experience his creation, which just isn't going to happen in the $60 pay before you play it, no demo sales model of today.
I don't think money should be an important factor in deciding your sales model. Notch wants as many people as possible to experience his creation, which just isn't going to happen in the $60 pay before you play it, no demo sales model of today.
You know, one simple thing can be said about piracy, it's bad. Because some people pirate games (even if they never planned on buying it or plan on buying it after pirating it), publishers overreact and make the game worse for people who actually follow the system and buy it legitimately. Do you think companies like wasting money on DRM, they only do it because they think/hope it'll buy a bit more time before something is pirated.
Use any argument you want for piracy, but you're just making things worse for that reason above.
Use any argument you want for piracy, but you're just making things worse for that reason above.
Oh I know that. And an Xbox can be hacked in 5 minutes so that's not a problem either. It's just that...both Crysis 2 and DA2 were under the EA wings, who then makes a fuss that PC pirates kill games. More people pirate on consoles and yet PC gamers still bear the stigma.Xzi said:
It's either a conspiracy or stupidity.
I think my stance is pretty clear. I think people who pirate are thieves. I do not claim to know if, in general, the actual effect is bad (that is, a company lost sales that would have otherwise been made), neutral (that the entire population of people who pirated a game would have never bought it even were it not possible to steal for example) or good (that the free publicity of piracy might lead to new sales or that some pirates would, upon finding a quality title, go and purchase it when the otherwise might not have).Savagezion said:
In short, I have seen no clear data that supports any claim as to the general effect of piracy but I am of the belief that if one is unwilling to spend money on goods or services they ought to just do without rather than resorting to theft regardless of the actual effect.
Just an afterthought on this quote here. That "damage" of making things worse is here to stay. Do you think that if an impossible yet highly annoying DRM came out tomorrow that stopped piracy came out tomorrow Prices would drop? How exactly is piracy making things worse? It is a scapegoat and the customer base is falling for it hook, line, and sinker. Tomorrow game companies could say "Sorry guys we have to raise the price of games 10 dollars because piracy is hitting us too hard" and the customer base will not see through the charade and start bitching about piracy. I mean their army of Lemmings (for lack of a better term)is getting powerful here. Just look at the used games arguments going on. They can damn near do anything they want and blame it on people pirating and buying used.MisterShine said:
Yet they keep turning out shovelware games and turning a profit on them. Turning a profit on most AAA games. Every title isn't bringing in profit but it is enough for Activision to reject the anticipated Ghostbusters game because they couldn't milk it. But it is obvious that is a game that was waiting for release day to make a hefty profit one time if need be. They aid no to free money because it was only a one time deal and not something they could milk. Then with a title they can milk like Guitar Hero they screw it all up and instead of timing it right, they flood the market and pull the plug when Rock Band 3 came out and did better than Guitar Hero 5. Guitar Hero has relased 10 titles in the past few years. Rock Band has released 6. (Really only 4 if you don't count the LEGO crap and stuff). Oversaturation. They themselves are the reason they are losing money and having to shut down companies and crap. I am not going to believe that pirates are hurting the industry as much as they claim when they are out there making ridiculous decisions like this.
I didn't realize the law was a party line..... Does that mean you would be ok if someone assualted you so person B, C, and D could have better lives?Zechnophobe said:
If person A wants to pirate the game but is unable, person A buys the game. GASP then person B, C , and D see it and buy it. Net gain = 4
There's a pretty basic difference between Minecraft and Dragon Age 2.
Minecraft is a brand new IP developed independently by a handful of people on a shoestring budget.
Dragon Age 2 is a AAA title produced by an international studio employing hundreds of people (not to mention employing marketing consultancies, external studios and so forth which will also add up to hundreds of people) and shareholders, all of which (justifiably, in my opinion) expect to see some kind of return on their time and/or money.
In economic terms, this means that, for Minecraft, having anyone play their game and talk about it is good. Since knowledge about the game has spread largely by word of mouth (and forum activity, etc) then anything which increases the amount of discussion of the game is good. The game also cost very little to make and has pretty much come out of the blue as a breakaway hit, this means that the expected profits are already massive due to the extremely small development budget.
Dragon Age 2, on the other hand, has likely cost millions to make and market. It has been marketed to such an extent that if you're the kind of person who is likely to play it you already know it exists. You aren't going to turn around and buy it because you see one of your friends playing a pirated copy or because someone says something nice on a forum about the pirated copy they bought, you're going to buy it because you want to play it or otherwise. It has been extensively and professionally reviewed, has taken up reams of advertising space, has a pretty comprehensive and free demo, there is a whole prequel which is fairly indicative of what the game is going to be like. There really isn't any excuse on being undecided on whether or not to buy it.
Don't try to reclaim some moral high ground by whining about how people in the industry would want you to play their games even if they're pirated. Those people also want jobs, they also want the big budgets which will enable them to produce the high quality AAA titles which we all enjoy playing. There is room for Minecrafts and Dragon Age 2s on the market, but don't try to pretend the marketing model is in any way similar, or that because Mojang can afford to say it's okay to pirate their game then Bioware should do the same.
Minecraft is a brand new IP developed independently by a handful of people on a shoestring budget.
Dragon Age 2 is a AAA title produced by an international studio employing hundreds of people (not to mention employing marketing consultancies, external studios and so forth which will also add up to hundreds of people) and shareholders, all of which (justifiably, in my opinion) expect to see some kind of return on their time and/or money.
In economic terms, this means that, for Minecraft, having anyone play their game and talk about it is good. Since knowledge about the game has spread largely by word of mouth (and forum activity, etc) then anything which increases the amount of discussion of the game is good. The game also cost very little to make and has pretty much come out of the blue as a breakaway hit, this means that the expected profits are already massive due to the extremely small development budget.
Dragon Age 2, on the other hand, has likely cost millions to make and market. It has been marketed to such an extent that if you're the kind of person who is likely to play it you already know it exists. You aren't going to turn around and buy it because you see one of your friends playing a pirated copy or because someone says something nice on a forum about the pirated copy they bought, you're going to buy it because you want to play it or otherwise. It has been extensively and professionally reviewed, has taken up reams of advertising space, has a pretty comprehensive and free demo, there is a whole prequel which is fairly indicative of what the game is going to be like. There really isn't any excuse on being undecided on whether or not to buy it.
Don't try to reclaim some moral high ground by whining about how people in the industry would want you to play their games even if they're pirated. Those people also want jobs, they also want the big budgets which will enable them to produce the high quality AAA titles which we all enjoy playing. There is room for Minecrafts and Dragon Age 2s on the market, but don't try to pretend the marketing model is in any way similar, or that because Mojang can afford to say it's okay to pirate their game then Bioware should do the same.
I pretty much agree with that stance honestly. Like I said, I am anti-piracy in my daily life. Shogun 2 is one I am just going to have to miss out on for a bit. I want it really bad and could pirate it but it just isn't in the cards and that is fine by me. There are a few games I am gonna have to miss out on when they come out this year because I have a long list. Hell, part of the fun for me this year is prioritizing which games I should get as opposed to which ones I should hold off on. Sometimes I am in a store and see a game I forgot about marked down and I love that. A pirate could never experience that.Eclectic Dreck said:
I am not condoning taking a free game or justifying it all the way around. But I get tired of reading that piracy is going to cause a video game crash on this site. I have this discussion OFTEN with my cousin and he has some good points. Some damn good points. Some are sketchy at best but some are solid. I won't go into them here as his points would only stand to ruffle feathers for no good reason. But, yeah, I pretty much agree with what you are saying ironically enough.
I'm not really surprised that it's got leaked and is out there already, after all it just seems to be the standard procedure for big name titles these days.
Also I don't really care all that much as I'll be buying Dragon Age 2 regardless.
Also I don't really care all that much as I'll be buying Dragon Age 2 regardless.
I'd like someone try to explain how piracy is going to hurt the sales of Dragon Age 2.
I'll be straight honest with you, if Dragon Age 2 was leaked sooner, maybe last week, and it was a retail copy, I would have pirated it and still kept my pre-order. For the simple fact that I could play it sooner.
I hope some people realize, that in some instances, companies outright support piracy of their game/movie at an early stage. Why? Because everyone knows that word-of-mouth advertising is the best advertising money can't buy. Doesn't help you if your game is shit though.
Dragon Age 2 will be a great sell, even it was "pirated" 2 months ago. Simply because it's a quality game and worthy of purchase. It hearkens back to the old RPGs, so it's something a lot of us simply 'must' own a hardcopy of.
I'll be straight honest with you, if Dragon Age 2 was leaked sooner, maybe last week, and it was a retail copy, I would have pirated it and still kept my pre-order. For the simple fact that I could play it sooner.
I hope some people realize, that in some instances, companies outright support piracy of their game/movie at an early stage. Why? Because everyone knows that word-of-mouth advertising is the best advertising money can't buy. Doesn't help you if your game is shit though.
Dragon Age 2 will be a great sell, even it was "pirated" 2 months ago. Simply because it's a quality game and worthy of purchase. It hearkens back to the old RPGs, so it's something a lot of us simply 'must' own a hardcopy of.
How can you be so sure - with Dragon Age 2, EA has basically ditched the "old" RPG crowd and started courting the Modern Warfare audience. This suggests the title is seriously running the risk of pleasing neither group.SyphonX said:
I for one am a great fan of Origins, but don't think DA2 is even worth the torrent bandwidth. Horrible, hollowed out (12 hour main quest) dumbed down, arcade version for consoles of what was once a fantastic title. But don't take my word for it - speak to Brent Knowles, the lead designer for Origins and see if he thinks DA2 is great as you take for granted. His email is on his blog.
Same opinion here. The temptation is strong though.Nova Helix said:
Will it look as bad on xbox as it' predecessor did?
Who votes for pc version?
No, EA caved in at the last minute. Originally the idea was to have periodic phone home to verify that you are not an evil thief, and also to transmit your game telemetry (how you play, how often, achievements etc etc) to EA's big brother server. However that is now officially scrapped, and there is just a one-time online activation. After that it will check if you happen to be online, but should work if you never go online again. See the BioWare social forum for details (but beware of the Tali romance threads - they can leave you scarred for life).Snotnarok said:
To be honest, why can't things just be out the day they are done? These delays to get "released" are redundant and are only necessary to suit some desires of the masses to stay in endless lines, whereas they think it makes their e-dick bigger.
Seriously, release when it's done. All in all, I support leaks of finished product.
Seriously, release when it's done. All in all, I support leaks of finished product.
Actually, active devil worship doesn't get you on suspension. As long as said devil worship can't be interpreted as having any relations to software piracy.Savagezion said:
Ot: Why do people still get up in arms over leaks, even after the crysis 2 leak, and how that ruined the company, and killed thousands of kittens?
I think piracy works in mysterious ways. Photoshop wouldn't be anywhere near as popular today if it hadn't been pirated in the past. All the rampant pirating of that particular app made for a whole generation who grew up using it and who will often pay for it when going on to a professional career. The same applies to apps such as Windows, Maya, Word, etc.
You could also flip that perspective on its head and say that they only got pirated so much precisely because they were good apps. That it was inevitable.
What people forget is that even though some consumers may be able to afford a nice gaming rig, sometimes that's the limit of their funds. Not every gamer has a nice steady income, and some of those who do have a nice income, choose to prioritize their funds on other things.
Even if games were completely uncrackable, the increase in sales across the board would be very modest. Someone who consumes a lot of games every month through piracy might simply scale back to a few must-have titles. Then spend the rest of their time on something else.
On the positive side, people who pirate games often contribute indirectly by talking about them online, creating more buzz, life, etc. If a game doesn't have a lot of buzz, but is still good, piracy can even help promote it - as witnessed by Minecraft.
I think instead of trying to combat piracy, companies should look into value adding their games and communities and perhaps reach out to consumers much more than they do today. Bring them on board and behind the scenes. I don't know of any major game studio that does this today. How games come into being is still hidden behind NDAs and veils of silence. Some companies may feel this helps them against their competition (really?), but I wager that an open approach would get a lot more community support and involvement.
Companies could also be more upfront about the economics of their games. For example. After having released Dragon Age 1, what if Bioware put up a sales counter on their website and put it bluntly: We need to reach X amount of sales before we can move ahead full steam with Dragon Age 2.
Couple that approach with a continued look into their production pipeline, and suddenly you have a brand new way of advertising their game. A lot of fans would love to follow a game from start to finish and it would create huge amounts of buzz all on its own. Much more than a few pieces of concept art and an occasional game-play trailer does.
One company that's doing this a little bit is Crate Entertainment with Grim Dawn. They speak openly about their development on their forums and engage the community. It's certain that their game will be pirated - but the game will also sell and have an initial momentum, especially thanks to the crowd which has been following its development and contributed by interacting with the devs. People love developers who care enough to listen to them.
TL
R There IS money out there, lots of it and people buy games all the time. Piracy seems bad, but in reality it doesn't matter all that much. What drives sales are good games from good developers who care about their costumers.
Honey works better than vinegar.
You could also flip that perspective on its head and say that they only got pirated so much precisely because they were good apps. That it was inevitable.
What people forget is that even though some consumers may be able to afford a nice gaming rig, sometimes that's the limit of their funds. Not every gamer has a nice steady income, and some of those who do have a nice income, choose to prioritize their funds on other things.
Even if games were completely uncrackable, the increase in sales across the board would be very modest. Someone who consumes a lot of games every month through piracy might simply scale back to a few must-have titles. Then spend the rest of their time on something else.
On the positive side, people who pirate games often contribute indirectly by talking about them online, creating more buzz, life, etc. If a game doesn't have a lot of buzz, but is still good, piracy can even help promote it - as witnessed by Minecraft.
I think instead of trying to combat piracy, companies should look into value adding their games and communities and perhaps reach out to consumers much more than they do today. Bring them on board and behind the scenes. I don't know of any major game studio that does this today. How games come into being is still hidden behind NDAs and veils of silence. Some companies may feel this helps them against their competition (really?), but I wager that an open approach would get a lot more community support and involvement.
Companies could also be more upfront about the economics of their games. For example. After having released Dragon Age 1, what if Bioware put up a sales counter on their website and put it bluntly: We need to reach X amount of sales before we can move ahead full steam with Dragon Age 2.
Couple that approach with a continued look into their production pipeline, and suddenly you have a brand new way of advertising their game. A lot of fans would love to follow a game from start to finish and it would create huge amounts of buzz all on its own. Much more than a few pieces of concept art and an occasional game-play trailer does.
One company that's doing this a little bit is Crate Entertainment with Grim Dawn. They speak openly about their development on their forums and engage the community. It's certain that their game will be pirated - but the game will also sell and have an initial momentum, especially thanks to the crowd which has been following its development and contributed by interacting with the devs. People love developers who care enough to listen to them.
TL
R There IS money out there, lots of it and people buy games all the time. Piracy seems bad, but in reality it doesn't matter all that much. What drives sales are good games from good developers who care about their costumers.Honey works better than vinegar.
It's less than a week before its US release, and it's been leaked.
Not bad, to be honest. Not much of a gap. Usually, it's worse.
Not bad, to be honest. Not much of a gap. Usually, it's worse.