Dragon Age 2
- Thread starter Cpt. Lozan
- Start date
Well dragon age 2 wasn't all bad. But for $60 it was a rip off.
Cut and pasted maps: In what world did they think that was acceptable?
Character spaz: Anders. That guys actions made no real sense. Just added for "drama"
Mages: The phrase jumping the shark comes to mind. When thinking about their plot-line.
wave system: Sure, lets have a warriors somehow defend against waves that come out of nowhere and land in middle of your group. Its very bad when the best tactic to every fight is to run away and form a traditional battle line. It also gets boring fast imo.
Anime: More of a pet peeve of mine, first game was a grim somewhat realistic looking game. Second one looked like a cartoon. Not an improvement. (Oh and the last fight I just winced at the entire time)
Cut and pasted maps: In what world did they think that was acceptable?
Character spaz: Anders. That guys actions made no real sense. Just added for "drama"
Mages: The phrase jumping the shark comes to mind. When thinking about their plot-line.
wave system: Sure, lets have a warriors somehow defend against waves that come out of nowhere and land in middle of your group. Its very bad when the best tactic to every fight is to run away and form a traditional battle line. It also gets boring fast imo.
Anime: More of a pet peeve of mine, first game was a grim somewhat realistic looking game. Second one looked like a cartoon. Not an improvement. (Oh and the last fight I just winced at the entire time)
This pretty much sums up how I feel about it. Dragon Age: Origins was Baldur's Gate II with modern graphics; Dragon Age II was Mass Effect with swords. It's not that I dislike Mass Effect, or action RPGs - I enjoyed the hell out of Mass Effect - but I enjoyed it for very different reasons than why I enjoyed Dragon Age.deathbydeath said:
Dragon Age II only let you play as a human, gave the main character a voice (thus reducing the number of dialogue options), brought over the Mass Effect dialogue wheel, reduced your options for customising party members, and got rid of the top-down tactical view.
This would be fine for an action RPG, and streamlining everything worked great for Mass Effect 2, but if I want to play an action RPG I'll play Mass Effect 2, not Dragon Age.
Dragon Age was most definitely not BG2 with modern graphics. The Baldur's Gate saga was a fluke in Bioware's history. They've either never been able to replicate its magic, or they haven't cared to try. Dragon Age is nothing more or less than another iteration of the same formula Bioware has been repeating since KOTOR. The only real parallel to Baldur's Gate is that both games use a fantasy setting. Don't get me wrong: KOTOR was a great game. But I've played KOTOR, Jade Empire, the Mass Effect trilogy and Dragon Age, and the Bioware plot is beginning to stick out as obviously as the reused environments in DA2.Anachronism said:
Im just started replaying dragon age origins and I'm really enjoying it, much more than my first play through, it a shame it take so long to play through. but i have been spurred on to pick up dragon age 2, it looks like it could be fun. but since i havent played it, i can not comment on it quality.
Fair point, well made. The formula they use for their story and characters does get pretty obvious and annoying once you've played two or three of their games. It's a bit depressing that KotOR, Mass Effect and Dragon Age 1 all have the same basic structure: introductory business, four main plot missions, endgame.Scars Unseen said:
I don't know about Baldur's Gate exactly being a fluke, even if Baldur's Gate II is far and away their best game. It was made at the time when you could put absolutely masses of content into a game and it would still only cost a fraction to make of what it costs today. It was geared towards a fairly small audience and so could aim specifically for that audience, as opposed to trying to reach as many people as possible like most of BioWare's recent games do; and it was on PC, meaning it could avoid the limitations imposed on KotOR and Jade Empire by being Xbox exclusive.
I guess what I meant was that Dragon Age: Origins was intended as a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, and even though it used the usual BioWare formula, I appreciated the effort they made with the setting, amount of content, and top-down tactical gameplay. I still thought it was a terrific game.
Dear lord, I hated Dragon Age II. First game I've ever sold. Ever. I still have frikkin ColecoVision games from when I was 2, but I traded Dragon Age II the minute after I beat it to get 28 bucks worth of credit I used toward Homefront. Yes, Homefront. I got more enjoyment out of that game then I did Dragon Age II. Barely any. Still more then Dragon Age II.
Copy paste world, crap music, crap sfx, crap visuals, a story where no matter what you do, you're surrounded by assholes, and not in the intresting intrigish sort of way. They're just pretty much assholes. Uninteresting NPC's. Either everyone's a whiny emo, or cardboard, or "Hey, people LOVE the socially awkward girl in all our games since Baulder's Gate 2, lets make the most awkward one yet, and people with love her the bestest!"... ... ok, the dwarf was cool...uh, yeah. Pretty much everything in the game is crap.
One thing I hear is "well, the combat is good". All it is is a big game of rock paper sissors. "Oh, I'm doing a combo! Oh, look! Rock! Time to use PAPER!" Any "planning" that goes into fighting just involves invoking one of three statuses, and hitting them with the attack that will do extra damage. All other damage is just done to kill time until you can do the combo again. Not to mention that even the combos fail to make it feel like they have some bite. I did my first combo attack expecting some big visual and effect payoff, and all I got was feeling like I just flicked the bad guy's ear. Where is my Earth Shattering Kaboom? If you're going to be more actiony, at least do it right.
They tried to go hack and slashy while trying to keep the trappings of the RPG combat of Origin, and ended up half-assing both. Stick to one or the other, though if they did that, the way BioWare is now, they would sadly go with the former to appeal to the mass market.
I'm tired of game companies dumbing down games into tasteless, textureless, actiony grey gruel just to appeal to the "mass market". Screw those guys. If those guys are so great, and so worth getting because of all their sweet money they bring in, then why are all the big name publishers hemmoraging money like a hemophilliac through a plate glass window?
Find a audiance for your game. Cater to them. Make other games that cater to other crowds. Screw trying to please everyone, it won't work. That frikkin Marketing 101.
In actuality, this isn't game that made me mistrust Bioware. Sure, I was upset about it, but hey, everyone gets one, right? Then Mass Effect 3 came out. Once is a coinicidence. Twice is a pattern. Still not ready to dismiss Bioware quite yet. I'll let them try with Dragon Age 3. Not pre-ordering it, though. I'll wait and see (which is sad. Time was you could preorder a game from BioWare and a handful of other companies, and you could rest assured that the game would be, at worst, merely "OK". Guess those days are done.)
They're on Strike 2, though. I get the feeling if they don't deliver with DA3, EA's going to cast their empty husk aside into the pit with the rest of the companies they've drained dry. Maybe I'll be nice and dig BioWare's corpse out of the pile, and provide a proper buriel out of respect for old time's sake.
Copy paste world, crap music, crap sfx, crap visuals, a story where no matter what you do, you're surrounded by assholes, and not in the intresting intrigish sort of way. They're just pretty much assholes. Uninteresting NPC's. Either everyone's a whiny emo, or cardboard, or "Hey, people LOVE the socially awkward girl in all our games since Baulder's Gate 2, lets make the most awkward one yet, and people with love her the bestest!"... ... ok, the dwarf was cool...uh, yeah. Pretty much everything in the game is crap.
One thing I hear is "well, the combat is good". All it is is a big game of rock paper sissors. "Oh, I'm doing a combo! Oh, look! Rock! Time to use PAPER!" Any "planning" that goes into fighting just involves invoking one of three statuses, and hitting them with the attack that will do extra damage. All other damage is just done to kill time until you can do the combo again. Not to mention that even the combos fail to make it feel like they have some bite. I did my first combo attack expecting some big visual and effect payoff, and all I got was feeling like I just flicked the bad guy's ear. Where is my Earth Shattering Kaboom? If you're going to be more actiony, at least do it right.
They tried to go hack and slashy while trying to keep the trappings of the RPG combat of Origin, and ended up half-assing both. Stick to one or the other, though if they did that, the way BioWare is now, they would sadly go with the former to appeal to the mass market.
I'm tired of game companies dumbing down games into tasteless, textureless, actiony grey gruel just to appeal to the "mass market". Screw those guys. If those guys are so great, and so worth getting because of all their sweet money they bring in, then why are all the big name publishers hemmoraging money like a hemophilliac through a plate glass window?
Find a audiance for your game. Cater to them. Make other games that cater to other crowds. Screw trying to please everyone, it won't work. That frikkin Marketing 101.
In actuality, this isn't game that made me mistrust Bioware. Sure, I was upset about it, but hey, everyone gets one, right? Then Mass Effect 3 came out. Once is a coinicidence. Twice is a pattern. Still not ready to dismiss Bioware quite yet. I'll let them try with Dragon Age 3. Not pre-ordering it, though. I'll wait and see (which is sad. Time was you could preorder a game from BioWare and a handful of other companies, and you could rest assured that the game would be, at worst, merely "OK". Guess those days are done.)
They're on Strike 2, though. I get the feeling if they don't deliver with DA3, EA's going to cast their empty husk aside into the pit with the rest of the companies they've drained dry. Maybe I'll be nice and dig BioWare's corpse out of the pile, and provide a proper buriel out of respect for old time's sake.
eccept that DA2 doesn't have a plot. It is exactly what you described. Oh I want money so I am going to do these quests. Oh I have money but am still doing these quests, ermahgerd QUNARI!! same again except it is ermahgerd MAGES AND TEMPLARS!!!! Even though all these are main quests they aren't connected to the a plot in any way.Devoneaux said:
I recently bought both Dragon age 1 and 2 and played them one after the other and these were my impressions.
Dragon age 2 had a fun robust combat system but thats pretty much it.
The characters were quite frankly unmemorable cept for maybe one or two of them. (Too much angst)
The story was delved too much into the whole templers vs mages thing to the point were it was starting to get annoying.
The environments were uninspired , repetitive and recycled
And the plot....well if you could call that a plot wasn't that good. All in all it seems like the result of a room of writers tasked to create a story that leads into a more epic conclusion in a short period of time.
While the game certainly isn't bad, it is a huge step down when compared to DA;O overall even when you factor in Origin's horrible combat mechanics.
I hope that Bioware actually give some thought into what makes an RPG great because at this stage Im half expecting Dragon age 3 to be an action game like every other EA title with slight RPG elements.
Dragon age 2 had a fun robust combat system but thats pretty much it.
The characters were quite frankly unmemorable cept for maybe one or two of them. (Too much angst)
The story was delved too much into the whole templers vs mages thing to the point were it was starting to get annoying.
The environments were uninspired , repetitive and recycled
And the plot....well if you could call that a plot wasn't that good. All in all it seems like the result of a room of writers tasked to create a story that leads into a more epic conclusion in a short period of time.
While the game certainly isn't bad, it is a huge step down when compared to DA;O overall even when you factor in Origin's horrible combat mechanics.
I hope that Bioware actually give some thought into what makes an RPG great because at this stage Im half expecting Dragon age 3 to be an action game like every other EA title with slight RPG elements.
I freaking hated DA:O. Found it to be some of the driest shit I've ever slogged through. The story had moments of interesting stuff (mostly from character banter) drowning in a bunch of brown, wanna-be Game of Thrones-ish...Stuff. Found the combat to be as uninteresting as it was uninspiring, and could never bring myself to finish more than one playthrough. The characters were cool, and I liked Morrigan a lot, but beyond that, ugh.
DA2 handled it's environments badly, and it handled the much vaunted frame narrative approach badly. But I found it to be a whole hell of a lot more engaging than DA:O in terms of combat and character relationships (and you don't even have to suck up to the bastards and ply them with gifts and be a yes-(wo)man, so I could feel free to tell Fenris to shove it and he could still be a useful party member if I chose to use him). I've played at least to the end of DA2 multiple times, and still see it as a game I can go back to and have some fun with; when I think about playing DA:O, it makes me feel like sighing.
And in case this comes up (because it always freaking does), I played the Baldur's Gate games, I played Icewind Dale, NWN, blah blah blah. I used to be up to my ears in CRPGs like that. DA:O's throwback totally does nothing for me. Especially how that whole "origin" crap becomes meaningless.
I will say, though, that I don't think either game handles character level progression that great. Once you get the core skills, there's not really anything else interesting going on. I wish it was a bit more like Etrian Odyssey where I always felt like my characters had more growing to do.
I'm with the OP. I liked DA2, I liked the DLC for the most part (found the humor in the one with Felicia Day to be mostly painful and incredibly forced, though), and I wish there could've been more DLC support for it.
DA2 handled it's environments badly, and it handled the much vaunted frame narrative approach badly. But I found it to be a whole hell of a lot more engaging than DA:O in terms of combat and character relationships (and you don't even have to suck up to the bastards and ply them with gifts and be a yes-(wo)man, so I could feel free to tell Fenris to shove it and he could still be a useful party member if I chose to use him). I've played at least to the end of DA2 multiple times, and still see it as a game I can go back to and have some fun with; when I think about playing DA:O, it makes me feel like sighing.
And in case this comes up (because it always freaking does), I played the Baldur's Gate games, I played Icewind Dale, NWN, blah blah blah. I used to be up to my ears in CRPGs like that. DA:O's throwback totally does nothing for me. Especially how that whole "origin" crap becomes meaningless.
I will say, though, that I don't think either game handles character level progression that great. Once you get the core skills, there's not really anything else interesting going on. I wish it was a bit more like Etrian Odyssey where I always felt like my characters had more growing to do.
I'm with the OP. I liked DA2, I liked the DLC for the most part (found the humor in the one with Felicia Day to be mostly painful and incredibly forced, though), and I wish there could've been more DLC support for it.
I absolutely love Origins/Awakening i must have played through 8-10 times, but DA2 I've played through once, it's not that it's a terrible game it's below average to average but not terrible, it's the fact it has the name Dragon Age when you go from a great game to a recycled quickly stitched together game it's a disgrace on the name, that's what makes it truly terrible.
I tried to give 2 a second chance once but i only got 2 hours in before giving up, it just doesn't feel like dragon age to me especially when you consider the fact that they changed the qunari completely...what the hell were they thinking? You can't go and redesign an entire race you effectively break the lore of your game, not to mention the constant recycling of the same 10-15 areas.
I tried to give 2 a second chance once but i only got 2 hours in before giving up, it just doesn't feel like dragon age to me especially when you consider the fact that they changed the qunari completely...what the hell were they thinking? You can't go and redesign an entire race you effectively break the lore of your game, not to mention the constant recycling of the same 10-15 areas.
Okay so opinions away:
-DAO is one of my favorite games of all time. I got embarrassingly into that game. Plot was meh (only really standout bit was the end, and that only because I liked the characters it centered around) but the characters were pretty good, the setting was amazing (the only fantasy setting I've really gotten into aside from LOTR).
-Favorite thing about DAO: I thought it was really good about letting you express yourself through dialogue. Know what you're going to say, have a decent amount of choice in what to say, usually get some reaction out of it.
-Combat was fun, loved the tactical old-school-ness without the hindrances of D&D. Unfortunately, way too much of it, difficulty was all over the place, and it was really unbalanced.
-DA2 does look like it would be interesting with the mage/templar conflict (I love political/moral disagreements in video games) and the conceit of confining the action to one city. When it comes to Mass Effect, I recognize that they (esp. the later two) have lots of writing flaws, but generally enjoy them overall.
So: Will I like Dragon Age 2? I cannot find two people on the Internet who will give me the same answer to this question.
-DAO is one of my favorite games of all time. I got embarrassingly into that game. Plot was meh (only really standout bit was the end, and that only because I liked the characters it centered around) but the characters were pretty good, the setting was amazing (the only fantasy setting I've really gotten into aside from LOTR).
-Favorite thing about DAO: I thought it was really good about letting you express yourself through dialogue. Know what you're going to say, have a decent amount of choice in what to say, usually get some reaction out of it.
-Combat was fun, loved the tactical old-school-ness without the hindrances of D&D. Unfortunately, way too much of it, difficulty was all over the place, and it was really unbalanced.
-DA2 does look like it would be interesting with the mage/templar conflict (I love political/moral disagreements in video games) and the conceit of confining the action to one city. When it comes to Mass Effect, I recognize that they (esp. the later two) have lots of writing flaws, but generally enjoy them overall.
So: Will I like Dragon Age 2? I cannot find two people on the Internet who will give me the same answer to this question.
Please. Would it matter? Can you forsee any circumstance in which I explain those parts of the game I thought merited praise, and you would nod and say "well argued" and "I have changed my perspective on this issue"? Of course not. If I elaborate, I'll just have a horde of angry net denizens savaging my every word, and frothing about the time DA2 burgled their house and killed their dog during the getaway.Nazulu said:
If you don't think a healthy portion of DA2's detractors engaged in some rueful hyperbole whilst slamming the game, then you and I have very different opinions of what "hyperbole" means. Nowhere did I express that they were ignorant, but it if pleases you to cast me in the role of villain for not hating the game like poison than so be it. I can be your bad guy. I can wear a series of hats in varying shades of black, and I will twist my mustache just so whilst plotting my next offense.
Impossible to say. There's some definite red flags. Dialogue has been changed from "choose your sentence" to "choose your tone", ME style, and while I found the results generally acceptable and occasionally quite cool, there are jarring "What...I didn't mean to say that!" moments that will drive the hard core role players into a frenzy.StashAugustine said:
Combat has changed as well. More frenetic, more visceral...it has more "pop" and impact. However, it's also less tactical, most egregiously in the form of enemies dropping in from the sky or fading in out of nowhere in "waves". It's acceptably challenging and not un-fun to play, but those who like to survey a battleground and plan their tactics accordingly will find it anathema.
Storytelling is all over the place. There's actually some really nice philosophical and political stuff in there...when it's good, the writing is a significant step up over Origins, which I found painfully mundane. When it's bad, it feels like filler, and it's obvious at numerous points that the game was rushed, because the pacing is atrocious and a great many plot developments feel half-baked or under-explained and under-developed.
I had fun with DA2, but I'd hesitate to out and out recommend it. It's not a terrible game. There are some well crafted, memorable characters in the mix. There are some stirring story elements. There are some nice dramatic beats, and a few brilliantly executed surprises. The whole affair gets dragged down, however, by how rushed and unfinished everything is. Re-used environments in particular will begin to grate almost immediately.
If you can tolerate the fun but slightly goofy combat, and if the scattershot storytelling doesn't annoy you, and if you can tolerate your fully voiced and charismatic main character occasionally saying something bugfuck stupid in response to a misleading dialogue choice, then there are things to enjoy here.
To be perfectly honest, the game isn't actually bad by any stretch. It is different than Dragon Age, wildly so in terms of mechanics, but it is by most reasonable metrics well constructed. It is filled with interesting characters and tells a well paced story and it has a reasonably deep combat system. The two well accepted flaws present are questionable enemy spawning (more enemies regularly show up in the middle of a fight, more or less out of nowhere which makes positioning a crap shoot) and environmental reuse.
Neither of those flaws is sufficient to justify the amount of hate the game actually received making me believe the problem, really, wasn't about the quality of the game. The game is perfectly fine. The problem is simply that the game plays remarkably differently.
It is honestly similar to the controversy surrounding Aliens. I won't defend that game as being good by any stretch but the game is by no means as bad as people make it sound. Simply put, when you deliver a game that is remarkably different than the one you expected and/or hoped for, people tend to blow every flaw out of proportion.
Neither of those flaws is sufficient to justify the amount of hate the game actually received making me believe the problem, really, wasn't about the quality of the game. The game is perfectly fine. The problem is simply that the game plays remarkably differently.
It is honestly similar to the controversy surrounding Aliens. I won't defend that game as being good by any stretch but the game is by no means as bad as people make it sound. Simply put, when you deliver a game that is remarkably different than the one you expected and/or hoped for, people tend to blow every flaw out of proportion.
Hmmm, would it matter? Well, your post wouldn't be such a boring waste of space. The point is discussion, that's the rule that atleast makes it interesting. Also, I would nod and say well argued if you could explain your view well or make a point which you aren't doing at the moment.BloatedGuppy said:
And where did you get this 'be my villain' rubbish? Is this how you try to get out of the crap you start? And explain this.
Are they over reacting cause of a lack understanding? What!
And I love how say 'would it matter?', and then just explains it for StashAugustine. It must of mattered all of a sudden 'ey?
It's incredible how your comical and bizarrely overstated outrage isn't making me want to carry on a discussion with you. And is, in fact, validating my presumption that it would be an utter waste of time for both of us.Nazulu said:
"The crap I start". I imagine if we were in a saloon, you'd be bellowing "them's fightin' words" and breaking a chair over my head. My crime? I said DA2 wasn't a terrible game, just an average one.
Oh noes! Oh noooooooes!
Been following this thread a little bit, agreed with most of what has been said... on both sides... in the middle... pretty interesting video on the whole thing that I will leave here... maybe you will like it, maybe you won't...BloatedGuppy said:
Have a better one.