Dragon age 3 you will once again be playing as a human

[tzimize]

Despite being only mildly interested in DA3 (I'm more of a ME guy), I can't say this bothers me overmuch.

After all, the super-amazing-fantastic race options in DA:O consisted of human, short thickset human and small human with pointy ears.

...
-snip-

I'm guessing someone pointed it out, but the backgrounds were more than cosmetic. Being a dwarven princess was absolutely amazing, and the different reasons you had for being exiled/on the run/whatever also played into your character. This again makes you think about the choices your character makes in different ways.

Being poor is not the same as being poor and an elf. Being a noble human is not the same as being a part of dwarven society and a noble.

I LOVED the dwarven noble origin in DA:O. I loved how unexpectedly ruthless and dark it was. It colored my dwarven princess for the rest of the game.

DA2. I hated almost everything about it. The party members, the stupid protagonist. The boring city, and the small scope compared to DA:O...it was just a terrible step back.

I am NOT holding my breath for DA3, but seeing as the universe is mildly interesting, I'll probably check it out at least. Most likely through articles first. A pre-order is completely out of the question.

 

[disgruntledgamer]

Rough sales numbers of both games on both consoles (PC not included):
Dragon Age Origins: 3.85 million (an amazing number for a new IP)
Dragon Age II: 1.58 million

How is catering to a "broader audience" working out for you, EA? Let Dragon Age be Dragon Age and let Bioware be Bioware.

Oh so DAO did do better, I was wondering about that, funny that they seem to be stubborn and keep going down the DA 2 track.

 

[Knight Templar]

Oh so DAO did do better,

I wonder if it made more money though, since it had a much longer development time.

 

[Baralak]

I loved Dragon Age: Origins, putting hundreds of hours into it, beating it several times, experiencing several different experiences.

I love Dragon Age 2, putting hundreds of hours into it, beating it several times, experiencing several different experiences.

Did I miss the "Origins" of the first during the second? Not at all. Did I appreciate the more involved protagonist though? Most definitely. The first game felt more like a "party sim" while the second felt more like an actual "role-playing game."

One thing I did miss from the first though was how the story influenced which groups helped out during the final battle. It added more of a 'strategic' element. The sequel letting unused party members help out as long as they're on good terms is a nice addition though. "What would you do if I sang out of tune,would you stand up and walk out on me? Lend me your ears and I'll sing you a song and I'll try not to sing out of key."

As for this one on the way.. I can't wait to hear more!

I've started replaying 2. I cleared it when it came out. Since then I've cleared origins about 7 times. So I definitely prefer origins but I still like 2. I like the dialog. I like Anders, Varric, Aveline and yes I like Isabella, between setting the slaves free, her reaction to the model ship you give her and coming back at the end of act 2 there's more too her than people give her credit for. But of course if you make an attractive female who likes sex that's a disgrace. Everyone knows real women hate sex.

Sure it's not a big epic story like origins but I liked how it was a person building htheir name over years. And I was ok with the small scope of the game.

Yeah it has lots of problems, reused environments (that is completely unacceptable in a AAA game at full price),spawning enemies and making me tap a repeatedly to attack.

You can actually cut auto-attack back on in the options menu. I keep it off, because I loathe auto-attack in games.

 

[veloper]

The Origins start was the only ambitious feature in Dragon Age. This was a much bigger deal than the actual choice of a player race.

Most RPGs may put a few different ending in a game, but that doesn't give a game that much more replay value (example: in Deus Ex Rev you just reload the save in the button room to see all the endings).
Front loading a game with story branches gives it alot more replay value (that is, if you can stomach the rest of the game ofcourse). Occasionally that stuff even came up again later in the game.

The origins was a laudable feature and I can't think of any game that had anything that big. It's the only reason why I rate DA:O above mediocre.

I can understand why a company might want to cut that expense in a sequel, but it's still a downgrade and DA2 had nothing good to compensate.

Ofcourse what really needs to be fixed is the combat and the encounter design. That stuff was mediocre in the PC version of Origins and downright terrible in the console version and in DA2.

 

[WFox]

It's harder to write a story with a misc. character with a title ("Bhaal Spawn" and "Grey Warden")

Why does everyone think this is EA's sudden doing...

Why is this automatically such a bad thing?

Most of the dialogue choices in the BG series, and in DA led to the same response or were barely worth noticing. For most of DA:O outside of your origin nothing was important. Occasionally you are called knife ears as an elf, you get a slightly different epilogue. It's nice to design your character a bit more but really who cares in terms of what it deducts from the game because you ultimately lose maybe a bit of dialogue. Come on

I'm seeing this argument coming up a lot- That after the origins the rest of the game was the same anyway. Well yeah. It's not like they were making seven different games. For me at least the touches that were there were worth it. Going back to Orzammar as a dwarf Warden wasn't all that different in practical terms then going there as any other Warden, but from a role playing perspective it was a whole new experience. Just like the Arl of Denerim's Estate has a lot more meaning for a human noble Origin than the others.

And more than that, I don't see how DA2 did it better. At the very least Origins made replays slightly different. All DA2 did was let you side with the horrible Templars or the Horrible Mages. And don't get me wrong I enjoyed DA2 but I loved Dragon Age: Origins. The numbers don't lie, those of us who preferred Origins are in the majority. Perhaps those are the numbers Bioware should be looking at rather than how many people played as human.

 

[klaynexas3]

I call bullshit on this post. First off, what the hell would you consider positive news about Dragon Age 3? Everything we have heard sounds less and less like the original and more of an attempt to appeal to a "broader audience" that couldn't appreciate a good RPG if it hit them in the face.

This guy gets it and isn't blinded by a ray of fanboy retard

Ah, I see you're using that special definition of "gets it" which means "agrees with me and only me".

I also like how people who enjoy things you don't are "fanboy retards"! What a well-reasoned and logical point; you don't like the way the Dragon Age series is heading, and since you are the ultimate arbiter of quality, the only person allowed to define what "fun" is and where it can be found, anyone who likes what you don't MUST be mentally defective and/or in denial. You stay classy, buddy.

I'm surprised that he isn't in the Religion and Politics section of the forums, I bet he'd do fine over there with his "I'm right and everyone else is an idiot" mentality. I honestly haven't found a single post by him that isn't rage filled and without any actual points or facts to his arguement, just saying everything is a lie and spewing hate. I wonder if he's also a conspiracy theorist, it would follow his personality.

 

[darlarosa]

It's harder to write a story with a misc. character with a title ("Bhaal Spawn" and "Grey Warden")

Why does everyone think this is EA's sudden doing...

Why is this automatically such a bad thing?

Most of the dialogue choices in the BG series, and in DA led to the same response or were barely worth noticing. For most of DA:O outside of your origin nothing was important. Occasionally you are called knife ears as an elf, you get a slightly different epilogue. It's nice to design your character a bit more but really who cares in terms of what it deducts from the game because you ultimately lose maybe a bit of dialogue. Come on

I'm seeing this argument coming up a lot- That after the origins the rest of the game was the same anyway. Well yeah. It's not like they were making seven different games. For me at least the touches that were there were worth it. Going back to Orzammar as a dwarf Warden wasn't all that different in practical terms then going there as any other Warden, but from a role playing perspective it was a whole new experience. Just like the Arl of Denerim's Estate has a lot more meaning for a human noble Origin than the others.

And more than that, I don't see how DA2 did it better. At the very least Origins made replays slightly different. All DA2 did was let you side with the horrible Templars or the Horrible Mages. And don't get me wrong I enjoyed DA2 but I loved Dragon Age: Origins. The numbers don't lie, those of us who preferred Origins are in the majority. Perhaps those are the numbers Bioware should be looking at rather than how many people played as human.

Never said DA2 did it better, just more consistent.

You're kinda proving my overall point. What is the problem? If the origins and races don't matter as much then there is virtually no matter to complain about necessarily. You can direct Hawke, or ME Shepard in the same directions as you could a Grey Warden or Bhaal spawn really. The difference is you are now aware of how meaningless a lot of the choices those games offered really are. Yes choosing answer X out of 7 may mean something to you or I as a player but that is sentimental. Not saying it's wrong, but it is a sentimental notion.

From the sounds of DA3 the main character will probably be a Templar. That I have no set problems with in terms of you being given a kind of character. By giving set options to choose from it gives the player unique experiences to play through instead of just different dungeons. That said the issue I do have with it is how it is seemingly set up. The situation has always positioned the player as able to help Templars or Mages...to me the nature of what the game seems to lean toward forces the player into a position that he or she may not lean toward without any sense of balance. However that is a different conversation

The problem is that the games are focusing the story on the human experience because for bioware human has ALWAYS been the default. Dwarf does not work well because dwarves are always kind of outsiders outside of their thaigs. Elves...well that one is not as justifiable, but we could assume there is a difficulty in that it is hard to convincingly write an elf coming to a significant position under more ordinary circumstances unless he/she is a grey warden or in a position recognized as more neutral.

I never said I liked DA2 more or that it was better. Never Never. I think it was mediocre game and I understand the choices Bioware made. The problems with DA2 are deeper. This overall discussion and the OP's original post are just distractions. They do not target the real problems of what ultimately made DA2 mediocre in comparison with DA:O. The OP seems to be bemoaning the fact that this has been implemented at all that the system is some how inferior or flawed without an explanation. The notion itself falls apart considering how popular games are that give you a set character. Bioware is giving far more choices than those kind of games usually do. How does setting up a basic position in the world negate or deter or act against your enjoyment of the gaming experience in comparison to being able to choose from several different options? Removing the enjoyment of choice how does this automatically hurt a game.

 

[Shadowsetzer]

I didn't really enjoy DA2 or ME3, so I'll be giving this a "meh" until I see the finished product.

 

[ultrachicken]

Frankly, if they were to put out what essentially amounted to DA2 but with an interesting setting, more than 6 dungeons, and refined the combat's tactical aspect, I would buy it in a heartbeat. I miss being able to play a dwarf, but in Orlais that wouldn't make any sense, in addition to the fact that focusing on one story ? when done right ? is better than having a bunch of other unimportant stories.

 

[Milanezi]

Also, my choices in Dragon Age 2 felt more powerful, I felt like really deciding things, maybe they didn't have actual gameplay impact

Yep. You made "powerful choices" that had no impact on anything. That's Dragon Age 2 in a nutshell.

But I agree with you, however, what game does allow for REAL impact? Because Dragon Age Origins didn't do it either. All we can get is a "sense" of impact, the game can trick you into thinking you're in control, but all in all, you never are, because, well, it's a game and any thing you choose will lead the game to one of many paths (or sometimes one single path, anyway), but fact is, it's all there before you chose, written by someone else, and being able to choose from two sides of a coin doesn't change the fact that maybe you want NOT to toss the coin at all because there are trillions of options you could go for (if it was a "real life situation") but it's a scripted game, it will be. So there will also never be real freedom of choice, or moral standings as far as the game is concerned.
However, it CAN impact the GAMER.

Spoiler

The choice where that crazy mage chose to blow up a tower, was amazing in my opinion, and it had a hell of an impact for me: the nice characterization of Hawke made me feel like I was in control of his personality, I didn't make him, or his backbone story, but his personality was MINE. So I spent a lot of time helping that asshole mage in many ways, I agreed with him in most ways, damn I trusted that bastard... And then he showed up and revealed he would blow up the tower. And that's where I drew my line in the sand, that's where I, GAMER IN CONTROL OF HAWKE'S PERSONALITY, infused my real-life beliefs into the game, and said "No. I'm not helping, as a matter of fact I'll do what I can to stop you"... True enough in terms of THE GAME that choice doesn't matter, because agreeing or not doesn't change the fact that he placed the bomb and that it WILL explode, it's only your character's moral standing that matters.

And just like in real life, many times what we want, unfortunately, doesn't mean we can do something about it. having a given moral ground doesn't give us enough power, by itself, to stop or alter certain events, mostly the events that are of bigger scope.
In the end, Dragon Age Origins didn't give me the feeling I was molding the story (but no games do, so I won't bash it for it), but it failed to give me the sense that I was imprinting my character with my values (be them real-life values or not, doesn't matter, as long as you can migrate a personality of your choosing, of your creation, into the game); whereas Dragon Age 2 really made me feel like I was controlling Hawke's personality (even though the character per se, was not created by me).

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

It's harder to write a story with a misc. character with a title ("Bhaal Spawn" and "Grey Warden")

Why does everyone think this is EA's sudden doing...

Why is this automatically such a bad thing?

Most of the dialogue choices in the BG series, and in DA led to the same response or were barely worth noticing. For most of DA:O outside of your origin nothing was important. Occasionally you are called knife ears as an elf, you get a slightly different epilogue. It's nice to design your character a bit more but really who cares in terms of what it deducts from the game because you ultimately lose maybe a bit of dialogue. Come on

It is the equivilant of cutting the chocolate ration in 1984. That is what the industry is doing.

 

[disgruntledgamer]

Oh so DAO did do better,

I wonder if it made more money though, since it had a much longer development time.

Yeah DA 2 was really halfa$$ed, they probably made more per sold but what that is.

I call bullshit on this post. First off, what the hell would you consider positive news about Dragon Age 3? Everything we have heard sounds less and less like the original and more of an attempt to appeal to a "broader audience" that couldn't appreciate a good RPG if it hit them in the face.

This guy gets it and isn't blinded by a ray of fanboy retard

Ah, I see you're using that special definition of "gets it" which means "agrees with me and only me".

I also like how people who enjoy things you don't are "fanboy retards"! What a well-reasoned and logical point; you don't like the way the Dragon Age series is heading, and since you are the ultimate arbiter of quality, the only person allowed to define what "fun" is and where it can be found, anyone who likes what you don't MUST be mentally defective and/or in denial. You stay classy, buddy.

I'm surprised that he isn't in the Religion and Politics section of the forums, I bet he'd do fine over there with his "I'm right and everyone else is an idiot" mentality. I honestly haven't found a single post by him that isn't rage filled and without any actual points or facts to his arguement, just saying everything is a lie and spewing hate. I wonder if he's also a conspiracy theorist, it would follow his personality.

Well if you really want to know I'm an evolutionist/ Anti-theist and I don't debate Religious people very often for the same reason I don't debate people who think the moon is made out of cheese. Oh and Ha ha republicans you lost.

 

[James Mann]

Well if you really want to know I'm an evolutionist/ Anti-theist and I don't debate Religious people very often for the same reason I don't debate people who think the moon is made out of cheese. Oh and Ha ha republicans you lost.

Urgh, you're just like a big bubble of bile aren't ya?

"Evolutionish/Anti-theist" ? Basically just another hop on the atheist to be better than everyone else train aren't you?

Regardless, to the actual content of my post:

Loved DA:O; enjoyed what i could play of DA:2 although i couldn't finish it, it got boring for me, it just seemed like there was no motivation to the story, no real push.

As for DA:3 from what i've seen im optimistic, and this isn't childish optimism since i wasn't looking forward to DA:2 when it was coming out, the third installment has me more excited for it though, and while it is in pre-production so nothing really set in stone, you can kinda tell whats coming from what they're planning, sure it might not all come out, but there's a good chance it will.

From the concept art, it looks to me like they're reaching back to a more DA:O style of visuals, which i greatly enjoyed, but with enough of their own unique look, I like that they're boasting better customization and am curious to see what it brings, even though i haven't been fond of the approach bioware has been taking with customization in companions, especially in regards to armour.

"Companion's armour can be changed and it's character sensitive, meaning the look of each piece of armour will be tailored to fit whichever companion you choose to equip it."

Has me both worried and excited, i'd like to see the variety of armour in DA:O but with each of the companions wearing each with their own unique flare (as this could help reinforce their personalities in a brilliant way)

I'm not too worried about being human, as a lot of people said i usually play human anyway; Mostly because when i roleplay i like to play as myself in that fantasy setting; So i usually end up human, although it's fun to mix it up and i would have liked to see the Qunari playable eventually, from the quote in the link i'm half expecting the other races to be released as DLC or in DA:4. I am hoping however that we get a true Qunari companion at least, Sten was fun but lets be honest, he's just a tall guy; not a giant horned beast like the Qunari in DA2. And I want one of those this time!

Also, owning my own castle? Yeah i'm cool with that. If it's being mentioned this early it's likely not just an extra; Likely it will be the hub of the game, i actually quite enjoyed having to do quests for the keep in awakening, made me feel incharge, and frankly i look forward to it being potentially more flushed out this time around.

I'm hoping, with keeping the main lead designer on, that Bioware have had a chance to learn fron DA:2, along with the extended pre-production time to ponder on it, I'm thinking this game has the chance to get right what they missed in DA:2, and expand on the parts that made the game good without the flaws that dragged it back down.

On a side note, Captcha: save yourself

 

[disgruntledgamer]

Urgh, you're just like a big bubble of bile aren't ya?

"Evolutionish/Anti-theist" ? Basically just another hop on the atheist to be better than everyone else train aren't you?

No I just find the concept of believing in a god without a shred of proof/evidence and despite the evidence ridiculous.

Not that my personal beliefs have anything to do with this post or topic, so why people thought to bring it up and attack me for it is beyond me. Ironic I got flamed for using the term fanboy but only fanboys would make baseless assumptions and derail a thread to attack someone this way.

From the concept art, it looks to me like they're reaching back to a more DA:O style of visuals, which i greatly enjoyed, but with enough of their own unique look,

I really don't understand how anyone could like the Dragon age art style, it looks like a Team America puppet movie with carved haircuts made out of wood. IMO the graphics need vast improving especially if they're on a next gen system and the art style needs redone.

 

[James Mann]

No I just find the concept of believing in a god without a shred of proof/evidence and despite the evidence ridiculous.

Not that my personal beliefs have anything to do with this post or topic, so why people thought to bring it up and attack me for it is beyond me. Ironic I got flamed for using the term fanboy but only fanboys would make baseless assumptions and derail a thread to attack someone this way.

Ha. the fanboy argument isn't a real argument that's why you get flamed for it; it's an attempt at dismissing and demeaning an argument without needing to support it, empty aggression.
(and fyi, my problem wasn't that you don't believe in a god, i don't myself, but that you would take the label "Anti-theist")

I really don't understand how anyone could like the Dragon age art style, it look like a Team America puppet art with carved haircuts made out of wood. IMO the graphics need vast improving especially if they're on a next gen system and the art style needs redone.

I think the reason you dont understand it is because you seem to be a bit confused on what the terms mean, art style is the aesthetics of the game, its not the same thing as the graphics the game has.

The graphics engine was fairly weak in origins i admit, but thats not a fault on the art style, the design team didn't sit around one day and decide that they really felt it was important to the game that the characters all had wooden hairstyles, it was a limitation of the engine they used. And the graphics are going to get a big overhaul, since they've upped to the frostbite 2 engine, the same engine games like battlefield 3 was built on, giving it a huge advantage in graphical capabilities, although that is entirely irrelevant to the point of art style. We have absolutely no idea how good the graphics are going to be in the game, because they haven't released any in-game screenshots yet, but from the concept art we can get an idea of the art style they are going for, and from what i see it reminds me a whole lot more of DA:O than it does of DA:2.

 

[disgruntledgamer]

Ha. the fanboy argument isn't a real argument that's why you get flamed for it; it's an attempt at dismissing and demeaning an argument without needing to support it, empty aggression.
(and fyi, my problem wasn't that you don't believe in a god, i don't myself, but that you would take the label "Anti-theist")

The difference is someone baselessly defending bioware and being a complete Biodrone given the topic at hand is completely plausible and on topic, my political and religious beliefs (or lack of them) have nothing to do with the topic at hand. And why are you so offended by the term "Anti-theist"? Many good people take the label Anti-theist like AronRa. There is nothing wrong with it.

I think the reason you dont understand it is because you seem to be a bit confused on what the terms mean, art style is the aesthetics of the game, its not the same thing as the graphics the game has.

No no I took the poor graphics of Dragon Age into consideration, may people have a problem with the art style and I'm one of them, I personally don't like. The Wood cut hair is from the art style more than graphical limitations, they had moving hair in NWN which was made how many years before DA?

 

[James Mann]

The difference is someone baselessly defending bioware and being a complete Biodrone given the topic at hand is completely plausible and on topic, my political and religious beliefs (or lack of them) have nothing to do with the topic at hand. And why are you so offended by the term "Anti-theist"? Many good people take the label Anti-theist like AronRa. There is nothing wrong with it.

Baselessly defending something is just as bad as baselessly attacking; most of you're posts here i've seen have far from posted a balanced argument, moreso they have only worked to finding fuel to throw on you're hate, with complete disregard for any positive factor of Biowares.
And "Ant-theist" implies, if not claims, not only holding a disbelief in a deity, but that you stand against others doing so; which is as bad as any other close minded member of another religion.

No no I took the poor graphics of Dragon Age into consideration, may people have a problem with the art style and I'm one of them, I personally don't like. The Wood cut hair is from the art style more than graphical limitations, they had moving hair in NWN which was made how many years before DA?

DA and NWN both run on different engines, and as i remember NWN's hair movement wasn't exactly a marvel to behold. Like i said, it wasn't an art style choice, its a graphics issue. Just because it was done elsewhere does not automatically make in an art style choice.. that's not how it works.

But regardless, thats a taste issue, it's not a problem with the game, many people also loved the art style of DA:O, people wouldn't put literally hundreds of hours into the game if they hated the art style.
Don't get me wrong, it's not like i completely hated the art style from 2, i liked the new look of the Qunari, i love the welsh and irish accents, so the new dalish elves i approve of, but a bunch of other choices i just couldn't get behind, the darkspawn in DA2 looked like complete ass to me, while the DAO looked like they were corrupted monsters, the ones in 2 just looked like dried up zombies. The choice to have the companions only have a limited option of armors also was quite annoying, an artistic choice most likely, but one that also messed with gameplay to an extent.