Dragon Age II has a 3.4/10 on Metacritic, WHY!?

lucky_sharm

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Aug 27, 2009
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DominicxD said:
Here's a shocking concept to you:

Your favourite company is capable of making a bad game.
Any score below a 7/10 is a game that is completely broken and unplayable dog turd, which is certainly not true for Dragon Age 2. Hell, cheap, unambitious titles have gotten better scores than a 2/10. Clearly this is just a case of fans bitching and overeacting.
 

Jodah

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Aug 2, 2008
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With such a big gap I'm gunna say theres a bunch of emos that are QQing that it is different than DA:O. If it was something like 6/10 vs the 8 or 9 out of 10 that the "professional" reviewers are giving it there might be some validity. But in this case, there isn't.
 

Danpascooch

Zombie Specialist
Apr 16, 2009
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Therumancer said:
danpascooch said:
I haven't had the chance to pick up my preorder of Dragon Age II yet, I plan on getting it later today, but I did look up some reviews, and while critics seem to love it, it has a user score of 3.4 on Metacritic.

Now I'm worried, the Metacritic user score is 3.4, which is so bad it's usually reserved for one of two cases:

1.) They did something specific to cause rage that results in spams of unfairly biased reviews (such as Modern Warfare 2's drop of dedicated servers)

2.) Only a few people reviewed it so far, and of them is an ass.

Well, 178 people rated the game, so it's not #2, and they aren't complaining about a specific nerd rage or single facet that caused hate (don't jump down my throat about my comment on MW2, it was just an example, I know dedicated servers are important but the majority of Metacritic user reviews about them read as if the change from dedicated servers murdered their parents), they are making broad statements about it being linear and bland. This does not bode well.

Does anyone have any explanation for this? Is the game really just crappy? I know Metacritic has some quirks but please don't just post saying Metacritic has no grounding in reality, 200 people don't just wake up and say "hey guys! You know what would be funny? If we all collectively pretended this particular game was terrible!"

I haven't checked the metacritic ratings, but the news doesn't terribly surprise me. I also suspect that as time goes on we're liable to see more of this. One of the big reasons is that professional reviewers mostly act as an advertising source nowadays. EA/Bioware has a lot of money invested in this, and as a result they probably bought a lot of reviewers, assuring a high metacritic score from professional sources. There have been contreversies over this kind of thing, so it's not like people can pretend it isn't happening.

*IF* the discrepency is as described, I very much doubt it was caused by a handfull of trolls as the guys compiling the information tend to keep an eye on things like that nowadays due to the antics of various groups over the years.

As for why "Dragon Age 2" might be getting bad reviews, well understand that they DID dumb the game down considerably and it's no longer a hardcore RPG for the people who love stats, gear optimization, and similar things. It's also a shorter game, the voice acting and dialogue doesn't quite match the standards of it's predessesor , and of course there was the whole stunt Bioware pulled by handing people a pre-defined character as opposed to one a player could fully build themselves. What they did was ask the general populance if people liked that idea, got a resounding "no" from the majority of sources, and then decided to go ahead with it anyway and pretend they got a positive response. To say that this pissed people off would be an understatement.

Understand that Bioware made the design desicians it did in order to (hopefully) cater to a larger group of players. Dumbing the game down and so on, was done to make it more approchable. As a result there are going to be a decent number of people who like what they did, and approve of it. On the other hand the original core of players who lionized "Dragon Age" to begin with for being a fairly hard core RPG experience, as opposed to a title designed to cater to the mainstream exclusively, are understandably unhappy about it.

We're looking at the entire "Mass Effect 2" situation again. Remember though that one of the big defenses made of turning "Mass Effect 2" into a glorified shooter was that Bioware still had "Dragon Age" as a series for serious RPG gamers. This is no longer the case.

I'll also be blunt in saying that this reaction, if accurate, shouldn't surprise anyone. Anyone who has been keeping an ear to the ground, as opposed to simply paying attention to those they agree with, would probably have caught the rumbles over the "Mass Effect 2" thing, and understand that while outnumbered by the mainstream or "casual" gamers, the more serious RPG gamers are NOT a tiny group, having been one of the biggest gaming markets for most of the time gamig has been around, and arguably THE sweet spot for making money before the fairly recent mainstream boom.

As a lot of people had been saying, "Mass Effect 2" sold due to the popularity and inertia from the first game. A lot of people got upset when they actually plugged in the game and saw what Bioware did to it. At this point however the game had already undergone massive sales. A lot of those same people made it quite clear they had become wary of Bioware and wouldn't be supporting them if this continued.

What we're seeing now is Bioware pulling the same basic thing with "Dragon Age", and well, it's not pretty since the consumers themselves can't be bought and controlled. I don't think we'll see how serious this is until "Mass Effect 3" at the end of the year and perhaps with "Dragon Age 3" should one be made.

This is just my opinion and observations of course.

Understand that just because a lot of people belittle the millions who didn't like the changes made to things like the "Mass Effect" series, or think it was an evolution, does not mean those people disappeared, changed their minds, or were wrong. Like it or not Bioware has POed a substantial amount of their customer base and there are going to be shockwaves irregardless of whether you (or anyone else) agrees with the changes.

As I write this, my household purchused multiple copies of DA2. My copy is still en-route from Amazon (due to some kind of screw up on their part). My father and stepmother have gotten their copies... and yes, I do think that the game is lacking in terms of gameplay and even the script/dialogue despite Hawke speaking. It has however improved in terms of graphics quality, and the combat animations themselves.

Also I do not think that there has been any major conflict between Console and PC gamers here. Or at least none from so called "PC elitists", that seems to be people projecting. The game seems to be perfectly playable both ways. Also the platform has little to do with the kinds of problems that have apparently been plagueing the metacritic rating.

Now if you want to see what a REAL battle between PC and Console gamers is like, check out some of the initial traffic going on with "DC Universe Online" and how messed up the PC user interface is, due to them not wanting to change it majorly from the way it worked on consoles.

At any rate, we'll see what happens in the long run, perhaps I'm wrong, but I think Bioware is going to be hit by some serious shockwaves come it's next single player releases.

I'll also be blunt in saying that Bioware was originally successful due to the way they focused on each other their games, one at a time. I think that some of the things that are annoying people were not done just to cater to a wider audience, but also because the games were easier to do this way. Remembr, Bioware has greatly expanded in size and has a lot more people (not all of whom are going to have the original quality) and it's working on multiple projects simultaneously. Rather than one game at a time, they are working on "Dragon Age", "Mass Effect", and most notably "Old Republic Online" all at once. With the 300+ million dollars invested in Old Republic Online (the most expensive game EA has ever made) I think their best people are pretty much tied to that project by demand of the investors, and I think the last couple of games they have done (Mass Effect 2, and Dragon Age 2) have reflected this. Not an opinion you hear too often, but I think it's a factor that applies as much (if not more so) than them trying to cater to a more casual audience.
Woah, text wall.

You bring up some good points, I actually didn't mind Mass Effect 2 so much though, I felt what they lost in exploration and inventory they gained in character development.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Karthak said:
My personal policy: Ignore user reviews. Perhaps it's mental scarring from my years on the WoW forums, but the only reviewers I trust these days are the professional ones.
Well, I have mixed opinions about eithr kinds of reviews. I tend to rely more on the person than whether it's a private or professional source when looking at reviews individually. When it comes to things like Metacritic, I think the user review "score" tends to be a lot more accurate than the professional one simply because professional reviews are frequently bought. Sure there are doubtlessly honest professional review sources, but when your looking at things from an overall perspective it tends to be more inherantly biased.

If you follow the coverage of reviews over the years, you'll find that what happened with Mr. Gerstmann over "Kane and Lynch" was just the tip of the iceberg. We see constant referances to how companies will find ways to pressure reviewers to hold back on negative reviews until after a game's initial sales boom. Companies being concerned about pumping up the metacritic ratings is a common thread to these reports as well. Remember that as loved as companies like "Bioware" are, a lot of the quality developers of yesterday are now owned by hated juggernaut companies like EA, and Activision who are the ones who coming up with the money and setting policy as well.

I wrote an even longer rant about this (within this thread) but the bottom line is that after what they pulled with "Mass Effect 2", their stunt about asking "if we should remove character customization, and give players a more predefined character and backround" getting a negative response, and then doing it anyway, and similar things it's not surprising that they are facing some backlash here. Every defense about how "It's okay to turn Mass Effect into more of a shooter, because hardcore RPG fans have Dragon Age" just exploded in their face.

Even if there are lots of people who LIKE the changes to Dragon Age 2, and what they did with Mass Effect 2, there are tons of people who don't. Pretending that those people don't exist, or are simply contrarians, or whatever else doesn't change this. The user score being reported probably says a lot about how the numbers actually break down among the customers, and exactly what Bioware has brought on itself.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens come the third installments in these series should we see them. I'm honestly not going to be terribly surprised if we see the same thing with "Mass Effect 3" if it's more similar to the second one than the first one playwise, except on a nastier scale.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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erto101 said:
danpascooch said:
(...) 200 people don't just wake up and say "hey guys! You know what would be funny? If we all collectively pretended this particular game was terrible!"
Yes they do. The even form groups to do shit like that =) 4chan for instance xD

OT: The game will be available in 38 hours here in Denmark, so I have yet to form an opinion. I did enjoy the demo and pre-ordered it though
Even 4Chan and Anon are usually motivated by something, they go after people who piss them off, they don't usually do anything 100% randomly, plus the reviews are really too coherent for that to be the case.
 

cystemic

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Jan 14, 2009
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i pre-ordered off steam and had to wait an extra 2 days because i live in Australia and apparently we have mad cow disease and have to be quarantined for 48 hours before we're allowed to be graced with its presence. still, i loved the first game, I just want more of that and I'll be happy no matter how easy or dumbed down
 

Bad Cluster

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I started playing DA2 yesterday, and so far it does feel dumbed down compared to the first game but if you examine the combat system it actually has more options and strategies available than the first game. I can only explain this feeling with the way it is designed, its more informative and not as obscure with skills, "the path" is always clear. Nightmare is still difficult, if you are looking for a challenge, it even feels impossible at times. That's actually a plus in my book, lets you focus on combat more than its mechanics.

So far Dragon Age 2 is pretty much a medieval Mass Effect 2 or simply "Dragon Effect 2", uses the same design, same plot mechanisms with slight variations here and there. Not gonna go into specific comparisons, that would be spoiling it for others.

I'm also not a big fan of Mass Effect dialogue system, I prefer the old KOTOR/DA dialogues. Somehow hearing my character talk detaches me from the game a little.

In short, the game feels like a professional quality cache in, all muscle and shine but no soul. I wouldn't rate it that low however, feels like 6/10 or 7/10 for me so far. I played through the first DA 4 times, DA2 feels like I'll be out of ideas in 2.

I really hope it'll get better as the plot advances.
 

Ren3004

In an unsuspicious cabin
Jul 22, 2009
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There's been a lot of outcry because it's very simplified compared to the first game and to older RPGs like Baldur's Gate. I don't know if people have just been giving it 0 and 1 scores and giving exaggerated criticism because the game isn't exactly what they wanted or if they actually took the time to evaluate the game properly and decide they didn't like it.
 

Light 086

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Feb 10, 2011
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Fanatics that expected the game to be perfect through hype or otherwise. The game didn't live up to be perfect then they start crying, happens all the time because no game is perfect. Like some said Mass Effect 2 took a hit in reviews because it was more of an action game. Yet later on, the reviews changed drastically favoring the game.

Personally I don't care about other people's reviews, if I like I'll get. Other people's opinions on a game won't change my opinion about it.
 

Pyro Paul

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Dec 7, 2007
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People are mad, instead of refining the old DA:O and making it into a better game, they simply cut out all the parts that didn't work.

the game feels like a rushed hack job.
and people are mad.

you are going to see a LOT of greif come from the PC community in particular because the game is effectively a port from console, and with it comes a myrid of problems and issues. simplification and 'dumbing down' aside the lower res textures, limited path choice, and highly repetitive enviornments makes many a PC player whom absolutely loved the orginal DA:O game find this to be a knife in the gut.
 

Bugerion

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DustyDrB said:
I'm going to try to say this in an understanding way...

1) User reviews skew towards the extremes. And with the way we've grown to interpret review scores, a 5 (the average between an equal amount of scores of 10 and 0) is a bad score. Now more people who hate the game are likely to post reviews earlier, due to having given up or having their minds made up before they played it. Massive disparities in critic and review scores are more common than you think (the Gears of War 2 launch, Little Big Planet, Resistance 2). This will even out over time for Dragon Age 2, however.

2) There are many jaded PC gamers out there who are displeased with BioWare's direction over the last few years. The streamlining of Origins (seen as a spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate) doesn't please them. It's not beyond belief that these people organize (similar to the "Amazon Bombing" of the "Bulletstorm causes rape" woman) and try to bring down the scores in order to make a statement.

3) Because of the previous point, the user review scores we're seeing may not reflect the actual quality of the game. It may just show people who are upset about what they perceive to be a negative trend.

I'm not a PC gamer and never really have been one, though I've been gaming since probably I was five years old (1992). So though I can't honestly understand the scope of these gamers who feel jilted, I can sympathize some if they feel marginalized. But that said, I'm more inclined to trust critics (some much more than others. My five: The Escapist, Destructoid, Giant Bomb, Eurogamer, and Kotaku) than user reviews. I'm highly doubtful that Dragon Age 2 will even (to me) be a mediocre game[footnote]I'm saying "I doubt it will" because my preorder hasn't arrived and won't until tomorrow[/footnote]. I loved Dragon Age: Origins, and actually have loved it more with each playthrough. I also loved Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. But if people hate the game for what it is not, then I can't say their opinion is illegitimate.

Well If the Baldurs gate fans did it I can understand it because I have played the game and dragon age is kinda dumbed down in that way but also all games are dumbed down from then even Origins was dumbed down compared to BG.
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
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Because review scores mean absolutely nothing, and you shouldn't care if it has a 3.4/10. It means as much as if the game had a 9.4/10: NOTHING. Numbers are useless for expressing whether or not a game is worth playing.

Lexodus said:
The first game was 'too hard', and now they've changed the difficulty, they're bitching again. These people aren't worth listening to; they're practically bipolar, or just love having something to complain about (hipster scum).
Or it's two different groups of people. I never understand why almost everyone seems to think anyone complaining about something is always the same people. It couldn't possibly be that the people complaining now thought the first game was fine and thus weren't part of the earlier group of complainers, no! That would make some sense.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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bussinrounds said:
danpascooch said:
Therumancer said:
danpascooch said:
I haven't had the chance to pick up my preorder of Dragon Age II yet, I plan on getting it later today, but I did look up some reviews, and while critics seem to love it, it has a user score of 3.4 on Metacritic.

Now I'm worried, the Metacritic user score is 3.4, which is so bad it's usually reserved for one of two cases:

1.) They did something specific to cause rage that results in spams of unfairly biased reviews (such as Modern Warfare 2's drop of dedicated servers)

2.) Only a few people reviewed it so far, and of them is an ass.

Well, 178 people rated the game, so it's not #2, and they aren't complaining about a specific nerd rage or single facet that caused hate (don't jump down my throat about my comment on MW2, it was just an example, I know dedicated servers are important but the majority of Metacritic user reviews about them read as if the change from dedicated servers murdered their parents), they are making broad statements about it being linear and bland. This does not bode well.

Does anyone have any explanation for this? Is the game really just crappy? I know Metacritic has some quirks but please don't just post saying Metacritic has no grounding in reality, 200 people don't just wake up and say "hey guys! You know what would be funny? If we all collectively pretended this particular game was terrible!"

I haven't checked the metacritic ratings, but the news doesn't terribly surprise me. I also suspect that as time goes on we're liable to see more of this. One of the big reasons is that professional reviewers mostly act as an advertising source nowadays. EA/Bioware has a lot of money invested in this, and as a result they probably bought a lot of reviewers, assuring a high metacritic score from professional sources. There have been contreversies over this kind of thing, so it's not like people can pretend it isn't happening.

*IF* the discrepency is as described, I very much doubt it was caused by a handfull of trolls as the guys compiling the information tend to keep an eye on things like that nowadays due to the antics of various groups over the years.

As for why "Dragon Age 2" might be getting bad reviews, well understand that they DID dumb the game down considerably and it's no longer a hardcore RPG for the people who love stats, gear optimization, and similar things. It's also a shorter game, the voice acting and dialogue doesn't quite match the standards of it's predessesor , and of course there was the whole stunt Bioware pulled by handing people a pre-defined character as opposed to one a player could fully build themselves. What they did was ask the general populance if people liked that idea, got a resounding "no" from the majority of sources, and then decided to go ahead with it anyway and pretend they got a positive response. To say that this pissed people off would be an understatement.

Understand that Bioware made the design desicians it did in order to (hopefully) cater to a larger group of players. Dumbing the game down and so on, was done to make it more approchable. As a result there are going to be a decent number of people who like what they did, and approve of it. On the other hand the original core of players who lionized "Dragon Age" to begin with for being a fairly hard core RPG experience, as opposed to a title designed to cater to the mainstream exclusively, are understandably unhappy about it.

We're looking at the entire "Mass Effect 2" situation again. Remember though that one of the big defenses made of turning "Mass Effect 2" into a glorified shooter was that Bioware still had "Dragon Age" as a series for serious RPG gamers. This is no longer the case.

I'll also be blunt in saying that this reaction, if accurate, shouldn't surprise anyone. Anyone who has been keeping an ear to the ground, as opposed to simply paying attention to those they agree with, would probably have caught the rumbles over the "Mass Effect 2" thing, and understand that while outnumbered by the mainstream or "casual" gamers, the more serious RPG gamers are NOT a tiny group, having been one of the biggest gaming markets for most of the time gamig has been around, and arguably THE sweet spot for making money before the fairly recent mainstream boom.

As a lot of people had been saying, "Mass Effect 2" sold due to the popularity and inertia from the first game. A lot of people got upset when they actually plugged in the game and saw what Bioware did to it. At this point however the game had already undergone massive sales. A lot of those same people made it quite clear they had become wary of Bioware and wouldn't be supporting them if this continued.

What we're seeing now is Bioware pulling the same basic thing with "Dragon Age", and well, it's not pretty since the consumers themselves can't be bought and controlled. I don't think we'll see how serious this is until "Mass Effect 3" at the end of the year and perhaps with "Dragon Age 3" should one be made.

This is just my opinion and observations of course.

Understand that just because a lot of people belittle the millions who didn't like the changes made to things like the "Mass Effect" series, or think it was an evolution, does not mean those people disappeared, changed their minds, or were wrong. Like it or not Bioware has POed a substantial amount of their customer base and there are going to be shockwaves irregardless of whether you (or anyone else) agrees with the changes.

As I write this, my household purchused multiple copies of DA2. My copy is still en-route from Amazon (due to some kind of screw up on their part). My father and stepmother have gotten their copies... and yes, I do think that the game is lacking in terms of gameplay and even the script/dialogue despite Hawke speaking. It has however improved in terms of graphics quality, and the combat animations themselves.

Also I do not think that there has been any major conflict between Console and PC gamers here. Or at least none from so called "PC elitists", that seems to be people projecting. The game seems to be perfectly playable both ways. Also the platform has little to do with the kinds of problems that have apparently been plagueing the metacritic rating.

Now if you want to see what a REAL battle between PC and Console gamers is like, check out some of the initial traffic going on with "DC Universe Online" and how messed up the PC user interface is, due to them not wanting to change it majorly from the way it worked on consoles.

At any rate, we'll see what happens in the long run, perhaps I'm wrong, but I think Bioware is going to be hit by some serious shockwaves come it's next single player releases.

I'll also be blunt in saying that Bioware was originally successful due to the way they focused on each other their games, one at a time. I think that some of the things that are annoying people were not done just to cater to a wider audience, but also because the games were easier to do this way. Remembr, Bioware has greatly expanded in size and has a lot more people (not all of whom are going to have the original quality) and it's working on multiple projects simultaneously. Rather than one game at a time, they are working on "Dragon Age", "Mass Effect", and most notably "Old Republic Online" all at once. With the 300+ million dollars invested in Old Republic Online (the most expensive game EA has ever made) I think their best people are pretty much tied to that project by demand of the investors, and I think the last couple of games they have done (Mass Effect 2, and Dragon Age 2) have reflected this. Not an opinion you hear too often, but I think it's a factor that applies as much (if not more so) than them trying to cater to a more casual audience.
Woah, text wall.

You bring up some good points, I actually didn't mind Mass Effect 2 so much though, I felt what they lost in exploration and inventory they gained in character development.
Actually, a text wall would be with no paragraphs. His post was spot on, btw.
I didn't mean it was a bad post if that's what you thought I was implying, I just said "text wall" to convey that I was surprised he wrote so much, I didn't know it only applied to single paragraph posts.
 

Brian Hendershot

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Mar 3, 2010
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Lexodus said:
The first game was 'too hard', and now they've changed the difficulty, they're bitching again. These people aren't worth listening to; they're practically bipolar, or just love having something to complain about (hipster scum).
Speaking for the hipster scum (not to be confused with guys who wear women's clothing cause it's cool mind you) we would like you to change your insult to either bunchy of bitchy PC elitist or bunch of whiny trolls. We don't want to be associated with such people. That is all.

Also, I am idk, six hours into the game and they only complaint I really have is Flemmeth's new look and the fact my companions can't wear armor persay.
 

skywalkerlion

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Jun 21, 2009
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*flame testudo*
..because it's bad.

To be more specific, it has terrible visuals, terrible dialogue, and isn't a thing like it's precursor. Bioware should have called it "Dragon *thing*" and I'd play it, but because they completely changed the game I fell in love with, I'm not buying it. Like another guy said, it should be another IP. Hell, it doesn't even feel like a BioWare game to me anymore. I'm happy I'm not the only one who feels this way.