Not because I didn't like it, but because that game is dense and I just don't have the time. I slowly stopped playing it because each time I got a rare day off, I would be half lost about what was going on. Slowly I stopped playing it at all once other games caught my attention. I don't know if I can go back since it's been so long.
Speaking for yourself! I was grinning the entire time until I read your post.
Anyway to add my two cents to this amazing thread, I too chose to stop playing.
Basically after the nightmare fade bit where you have to choose between Alistair and Hawke dying. And I was super in to Dragon Age 1&2 and replayed a bunch to get the romance finality I wanted. Alistair went off with Mahariel to be a Chapter Master or whatever and Hawke bonded with Merrill.
And then this game comes along and takes a piss all over it! And in a stupidly lazy fucking way! I have my Inquisitor with all dragon bone equipment, my entire heavy hitter team all in dragon bone equipment, Hawke the one man meat-grinder himself and Alistair the Arch-Daemon slayer! We could beat a daemon-Primarch for fucks sake! And here we have to leave behind someone to die because of...reasons.
It was a very lazy and stupid way to raise the stakes and make us have "the feels man"
So after that I just put the game down. Wasn't interested with whatever bullshit story they were trying to tell afterwards.
Alistair is involved there? For me I had some generic NPC with a weird beard, who of course did not survive the choice. Did Alistair not become King for you?
But yeah, those situations are very contrived.
I don't remember what choices I made. I don't think any of them mattered much, did they? It all ends the same way IIRC. I let Morrigan drink from that lake, even though I was tempted to myself. The Wardens survived because the Wardens are awesome. I don't remember which politician is in charge. Probably whichever one had the least stupid voice. WeirdAccentLady is the Divine, because she's a nobody and Leliana is actually useful to me where she is.
Callen gave up the Lyrium and Cole is more human, I think. Bowlcut-Scouser-Girl got told to GTFO. And I told Varric that WeirdAccentLady requested more smutty books. That's all I can really recall.
Oh hey, droll posts about DA:I's perceived qualities in a thread that has nothing to do with DA:I's perceived qualities. How original, internetz.
Choices: I chose everything - because replays.
Well, okay I've only gone through it twice so far, but for me DA Keep has rather made defined player canon a bit meaningles - it imposes more of a kind of 'what if' multiverse structure, instead, so I honestly couldn't say if I have my own canon choices for the series any more.
Besides, it wasn't me who picked Blackwall as an LI for the first run, that was my apparently stupid RP'd character. Or at least that's the excuse I'm going with now...
But broadly speaking in terms of favoured major choices?
Mages - because fuck the Templars weird 'we're fighting only because the plot demands it' motivations.
Josephine as an LI - not finished her story yet with my current female warrior, but she seems remarkably well adjusted and genuinely likeable, which is a nice change from DA's typically emotionally crippled roster.
Wardens - kept them around. Why wouldn't I/the Inquisitor? They're an odd bunch, to be sure, but they're handy in a Blight, as has been proven five times already.
Leliana as Divine - because Cassandra seems to just perpetuate another cycle doomed to failure, and-- well, sod whatever Vivienne has planned - it's probably not good for mages.
The Well of MacGuffins - originally I let Morrigan go nuts with it, but in terms of gameplay and 'story' it's probably more enjoyable when the Inquisitor takes a wisdom-bath, so I'd likely make that my canon-ish choice going forward.
Empress/fate of Orlais - I saved her, as my character wasn't amoral or nuts enough to simply stand by and let someone be murdered. Giving Gaspard more power seems destined to failure, and the Briala path is a bit too deviously Game Of Thrones manipulative for my liking. Puppets on strings never ends well for anyone...
The Inquisitor - going with the multiverse thing I don't really have a canon Herald. A Dalish female mage was a lot of fun, especially with Solas as an LI from a lore POV.
Hawke's fate - she always survives, so Alistair or Stroud will always meet the same [dopey] demise.
Favourite tier3 schematic and gold farming spot - why, that's the Cradle of Sulevin, of course - no DA:I run should be without it.
Not because I didn't like it, but because that game is dense and I just don't have the time. I slowly stopped playing it because each time I got a rare day off, I would be half lost about what was going on. Slowly I stopped playing it at all once other games caught my attention. I don't know if I can go back since it's been so long.
I know what you mean, it's one of those games that takes quite an investment of time. I only played it once, but there's so much stuff that I'm going to wait until all the DLC is released, get them in a bundle, then play it once more before DA4 comes out.
- Male Human Rogue Inquisitor. He also black. I swear I didn't see the "Black one is a thief" stereotype until half way throught the game.
- Sided with the templars. To be honest I didn't know about:
A)Time magic at work
B)Fiona being
Alistair's Mother
Otherwise I would have sided with the mages. I just started the Templar Quest and just went along with it.
- Made peace with everybody at the ball... In retrospect, I doesn't work very well does it?
- The box got community services, I believe it's really important to point that out.
- I conviced that elven girl to seek out the wardens. OH GOD, WHAT A TERRIBLE MISTAKE THAT WAS!
- Left Stroud to die in fade... I don't regret that... At all. However I do understand why some people have a problem when it's Alistair\Loghain in place of Stroud.
- Let the Wardens stay. They ARE still needed for the blight.
- Lord Dickface (Or whatever the name of the guy in the Warden's quest was) was made Tranquil. It was the worst thing I could think to do with him. Especially after the elven girl from above. (What terrible choice.)
- Let Morrigan drink from the Well. I admit the only reason I let her drink has because I still trusted Morrigan from experience from Dragon Age Origins. In game my Inquisitor had no reason to trust her to do it, it was a case of me getting in the way of "role play".
- I guess Cassandra learned the hard way that once you go black you can't go back. (It was terrible, but so worth it. The joke I mean, not the romance.). I should point out that I was all like "Oh, it's cutting to black to not show us anythi... ARE THOSES BOOBS?!" at that romance. I was actually surprised. Better plot twist than Corypheus being the big bad.
- Unhardened Leliana, I really hated to see Leliana so Hardened in this game. It's was really nice at the end to see her cheerfully praying, acting more like Leliana from the first Dragon Age.
- Cole made more Human. (Solas Disaproves)
- Saved the Charges, I just couldn't bring myself to let them die. They are awesome.
Well to add my snark as well, i too chose to not finish it and uninstall it as i grew massively bored, but i don't want to be rude, so here are my choices as far as i made it.
- Chose to save the mages as allies, because i am sure not going through hell saving them just to enslave them again right after. Seems like a pretty silly choice to make, might as well choose the templars then.
- Sacrificed Hawke. Because i like Loghain. And because f**k Da 2.
- Let the Wardens stay. Who am i to disband them anyway? They allready saved the world 4 times more often than the Inquisitor ever will.
- Romanced Josephine, mainly because all the other options were pretty horrible in my mind.
Well, okay I've only gone through it twice so far, but for me DA Keep has rather made defined player canon a bit meaningles - it imposes more of a kind of 'what if' multiverse structure, instead, so I honestly couldn't say if I have my own canon choices for the series any more.
While the Keep does indeed allow you to set up any scenario for the game's backstory that you like, I'm pretty sure the more practical application of "Since those of you who played this on the past gen can't transfer your files to the current gen we'll let you re-build your games from the past gen so you can use them on the current gen." As such, I don't really see your point regarding how the Keep renders player-made choices meaningless. While it can indeed be used to make any canon you want, it can more specifically be used to remake the canon you had.
OT:
A cow by any other name would moo just as loud...
My first - and so far only - playthrough was as a Female Qunari Mage. I wanted to be as big of a blasphemy as possible to the Andrastian faith when they placed me at the head of a religious order and commander of a crusade. Would have gone male for the full trifecta, but I had plans of romancing Sera so I went for two out of three possible middle fingers.
I was rather disappointed that you're essentially a human that just looks like a Qunari. I was really hoping to be full-blown "I adhere to the wisdom of the Qun" Qunari. I really think that would have made for a much more interesting backstory and given the Qunari Inquisitor a very unique playthrough experience full of different possibilities. As it is there really is no point in rolling a Qunari. Such a waste, Bioware...such a waste.
Mages vs Templars
Given that I was a mage, I sided with my magey brethren.
What is love? Baby don't hurt me.
Romanced Sera because she was delightfully mad. Nothing like a good bit of crazy, keeps matters of one's love life from getting boring. :3
Requiem for a Dream
I let Stroud kill himself in the fade because I sure as fuck wasn't going to sacrifice Hawke after all the time I spent reconstructing her face so that it looked like the Hawke from my DAII, and I always liked Alistair so I wasn't going to leave him behind.
Judgement of the Wardens
I kept them around and impressed them into the Inquisition because regardless of if there's a blight around, they're still highly skill soldiers so why not bring them into your ranks?
I then promptly sent them to their glorious deaths in the War Room missions where you have the chance to use them three times in a row. You complete the missions, but by the end the Wardens are pretty much wiped out. Hey, they wanted to fall on their swords anyways, at least I gave them a meaningful death.
I Like Ballllllllllls!
At the royal ball I ensured that the Empress survived and suggested that she pay more attention to her former lover, the Dalis elf. Even my Qunari Inquisitor knows that the Dalish have a shit lot in life and so she wanted to help them out a bit.
Hey! It worked in Blazing Saddles!
Somehow Vivienne ended up as the Divine...annnnnd I honestly don't know how that happened. Apparently I broke Lelianna and made her a cold hearted cynical *****, so I wasn't going to put her on the Sunburst Throne. I really enjoyed Cassandra's character arc so I had every intention of giving her the big pope hat. At one point Vivienne discussed things with me, saying that she believed Cassandra would make for a good Divine. I agreed with her. Somehow this translated to "THE HERALD OF ANDRASTE FULLY SUPPORTS VIVIENNE'S NOMINATION! LETS MAKE HER THE DIVINE!"
So yeah...don't quite know how it turned out that way, but I guess that was my "choice."
Too much information...really...
I let Morrigan drink from the Well of Deus Ex Machina, then laughed as she found herself forever bound to the one person she was hoping to never see again: her "mother".
While the Keep does indeed allow you to set up any scenario for the game's backstory that you like, I'm pretty sure the more practical application of "Since those of you who played this on the past gen can't transfer your files to the current gen we'll let you re-build your games from the past gen so you can use them on the current gen." As such, I don't really see your point regarding how the Keep renders player-made choices meaningless. While it can indeed be used to make any canon you want, it can more specifically be used to remake the canon you had.
That wasn't the only reason they went with the Keep; it became a nightmare to create games that tracked so many plot flags using a file import system.
And it's not about player choices being rendered "meaningless", it's about the limitations of the file import being completely blown out the, er, airlock (it's late and I'm using out-of-lore metaphors... ). Compare the effort and time it takes; I take about 50hrs average clearing DA:O, and about 30-40 for DAII. That's at least 80 or so hours of time and effort - spread across weeks or, far more likely, months of gameplay.
With the Keep? I faff around for about an evening, maybe tweak some details the next day, and BAM! Universe canon created. I have a handful of world states saved, so for me every one of them blurs in and out of canon. They are all equal, and all serve the purpose of exploring the variations in--- well, timelines or universes, frankly.
Point being; you're no longer locked, at all, to what you "had" - you have every possibility open to you (even if you never even played that event out in a previous game).
Point being; you're no longer locked, at all, to what you "had" - you have every possibility open to you (even if you never even played that event out in a previous game).
Hey, it's not the game's fault, you just apparently have a lack of self control when given all the options to play story-god.
Just because you can make any background possible doesn't mean you have to make every background possible. Sure, you can faff about in the Keep and play around with the options for an evening and make a story that you never played. Or you could, you know, use the Keep to recreate the stories that you actually did play so that you can use those stories on the current gen consoles. For all the rest? There's the novel idea of actually playing through the first two games a couple more times to get all the options you missed.
As I said in our PM: the Keep no more creates a "multiverse paradigm" than actually playing through the games multiple times does. It just takes less time to use the Keep.
Sided with the mages, I figured she would sympathise with their desire for freedom, Dalsih have mages as their leaders so one shouldn't have much against them plus with the way events play out for someone who isn't already invested in the conflict it seems like where you would probably end up. The templars start out hostile and unwilling to listen. The mages clearly want something but are at least willing to talk. By the time you find out things are not what they seem you're already involved and there is cult trying to kill you.
Sacrificed Hawke
Reluctantly let the grey wardens stay
Let the chargers die. Sorry Bull.
Made Cole more human.
Kept Celene alive and had her reconcile with the elf (jeez, she is either a very good actor or very forgiving). If I bother replaying (unlikely) or importing this if do buy the next one I might change that one just cause I don't know that my character should be politically savvy enough to pull that off.
Well of sorrows: I have two saves because both could work and I haven't decided which way I want it to go. Leaning more towards rejecting it and letting Morrigan have it. Her comeuppance if you do is hilarious.
Divine: I got Cassandra (Leliana went mental because I didn't stop her from killing than one traitor so I wouldn't want her as divine anyway)
Romance: Solas, I had his twist spoiled ahead of time and figured my Dalsih elf falling for you-know-who would be hilarious and I enjoy drinking my own RPG characters tears. Without that I wouldn't have bothered.
We were both privileged, black, upper class, human female mages, and my thoughts on the issue were locked in when she asked me how I'd found life in the circle. I chose to say I had no problem with it, and the Templars never bothered me; of course they wouldn't, I was from a well-off family and had every benefit going my way. Of course my character wouldn't fully sympathise with the rebels
Just dropping by for the important reminder - this is how Dragon Age got cancer and died. Somewhere around 2 it completely stopped being Sword&Sorcery fantasy with a couple strokes of Dark, and became Tumblr Fantasy - modern social issues and waifus/husbandos with da magiks because waifus need da magiks to look cooler, with a couple strokes of Dark of course. Which can be a somewhat enjoyable experience, but in the end it's far too bullshit to try and mentally digest. And now it is dead because of it.
Yeah, I know right, it's almost like allegorical fiction is a thing.
Seriously, in an age where Game of Thrones is the most popular show on television and The Witcher series is kicking it's arse at being dark fantasy, I think it was smart of Dragon Age to shift to a lighter tone. It's clearly what Bioware's writers are more comfortable with, and it makes it stand out from other medieval fantasy.
Yeah, I know right, it's almost like allegorical fiction is a thing.
Seriously, in an age where Game of Thrones is the most popular show on television and The Witcher series is kicking it's arse at being dark fantasy, I think it was smart of Dragon Age to shift to a lighter tone. It's clearly what Bioware's writers are more comfortable with, and it makes it stand out from other medieval fantasy.
I personally think it didn't really do them any favours. The reason dark fantasy is so popular right now is because everyone's sick and tired of light fantasy. Light fantasy has been pretty much the standart fantasy and it's just really generic most of the time.
And so is DAI now. Generic and rather boring. While i can remember at least one scene out of every major quest in Origins, like the Landsmeet, the Confrontation of the possessed child, or the Broodmother, there's barely anything memorable in DAI. The only story element that comes to mind is the time-travel in the mages quest and i only remember that because i had to facepalm about how out of place this deus-ex plot element was.
Yeah, I know right, it's almost like allegorical fiction is a thing.
Seriously, in an age where Game of Thrones is the most popular show on television and The Witcher series is kicking it's arse at being dark fantasy, I think it was smart of Dragon Age to shift to a lighter tone. It's clearly what Bioware's writers are more comfortable with, and it makes it stand out from other medieval fantasy.
I personally think it didn't really do them any favours. The reason dark fantasy is so popular right now is because everyone's sick and tired of light fantasy. Light fantasy has been pretty much the standart fantasy and it's just really generic most of the time.
And so is DAI now. Generic and rather boring. While i can remember at least one scene out of every major quest in Origins, like the Landsmeet, the Confrontation of the possessed child, or the Broodmother, there's barely anything memorable in DAI. The only story element that comes to mind is the time-travel in the mages quest and i only remember that because i had to facepalm about how out of place this deus-ex plot element was.
But as I said, these days dark fantasy is the norm. It's the same cycle superhero movies went through; they started out fairly bright, then they went through a grim-dark phase, and now the colour's coming back again. Tastes change, and I would argue that it's better for Dragon Age to do light fantasy with modern progressive political elements (as if that wasn't the case with Origins; that game wasn't nearly as subversive as it made itself out to be), rather than being just another knock-off of Game of Thrones. And that's clearly where Bioware's strength lies; the closest they had to Realpolitik fantasy intrigue was the "Great Game" stuff at the Orlesian ball and it didn't engage me at all. It was the uplifting character bits like discovering Skyhold or drinking with Iron Bull that made that game.
Anyway, I regret responding to that first post now. I get the feeling they were just triggered by my use of the word "privilege" (ignoring the actual context) and started gibbering at the mouth about Tumblr or whatever. Not really worth the effort.
But as I said, these days dark fantasy is the norm. It's the same cycle superhero movies went through; they started out fairly bright, then they went through a grim-dark phase, and now the colour's coming back again. Tastes change, and I would argue that it's better for Dragon Age to do light fantasy with modern progressive political elements (as if that wasn't the case with Origins; that game wasn't nearly as subversive as it made itself out to be), rather than being just another knock-off of Game of Thrones. And that's clearly where Bioware's strength lies; the closest they had to Realpolitik fantasy intrigue was the "Great Game" stuff at the Orlesian ball and it didn't engage me at all. It was the uplifting character bits like discovering Skyhold or drinking with Iron Bull that made that game.
Anyway, I regret responding to that first post now. I get the feeling they were just triggered by my use of the word "privilege" (ignoring the actual context) and started gibbering at the mouth about Tumblr or whatever. Not really worth the effort.
You could compare it to the superhero films actually. DAI is like Man of Steel. A lot of people liked the dark theme of the Batman films, but then the people turned to the lighthearted marvel movies instead and dc released the just as dark Man of Steel, while everyone was still enjoying the lightheartedness and was sick of the dark theme.
Not a real good move.
But as i said, it's just my opinion and i found DAI's Story and Theme painfully boring. If you liked it, great. Everyone likes something different.
But as I said, these days dark fantasy is the norm. It's the same cycle superhero movies went through; they started out fairly bright, then they went through a grim-dark phase, and now the colour's coming back again. Tastes change, and I would argue that it's better for Dragon Age to do light fantasy with modern progressive political elements (as if that wasn't the case with Origins; that game wasn't nearly as subversive as it made itself out to be), rather than being just another knock-off of Game of Thrones. And that's clearly where Bioware's strength lies; the closest they had to Realpolitik fantasy intrigue was the "Great Game" stuff at the Orlesian ball and it didn't engage me at all. It was the uplifting character bits like discovering Skyhold or drinking with Iron Bull that made that game.
Okay, but speaking seriously now, I actually think you're summing up the problem with the Dragon Age franchise as a whole. I don't really care that they include progressive elements or whatever - it makes the fandom a pain in the ass, but they're easy enough to avoid - rather Dragon Age's problem is pretty much exactly what you're talking about as a positive - it has no goddamn clue what it wants to be.
I remember reading that David Gaider made a tweet about how Dragon Age changes itself with every installation - but that's not a good thing. It means the franchise lacks an identity. Origins was a dark fantasy, 2 was a personal story, Inquisition was a "return to form" that felt more like a bizarre and disfigured lovechild between the BioWare Formula and Bethesda's games. There's nothing that's truly representative of Dragon Age as a whole, nothing consistent and memorable. The only recurring presence throughout all the games has been Flemeth, and naturally, Flemeth is probably the most recognizable thing to come out of the franchise. But even with her, the writers don't seem to know what they want. She was an old hag in Origins, a weirdly sexy grandma in 2, an elven goddess in Inquisition - and now she's gone entirely, so there goes the one iconic aspect of the franchise. It's to the point where the series seems more like a random fantasy anthology rather than a strong, coherent story - it's so hard to get invested, and they lose so many fans with every installment, because they wipe the slate clean with every sequel and all the things and people you fell in love with will be lucky to get so much as a cameo.
The Dragon Age brand is just one giant identity crisis. They should've stuck with their first one or ditched it before they began, because this constantly wobbling between many is what's bring BioWare down.
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