Dragon Tongue Reveals Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim's World Eater
- Thread starter Tom Goldman
- Start date
Actually maturin, you might be on to something.
"Dragonborn" is a title attributed to Talos, a general of Nordic descent who became an emperor of Cyrodiil and later conquered all of Tamriel... and apparently became one of the Nine Divines. So, maybe the hero of Skyrim is an incarnation of Talos, sort of like how the hero in Morrowind is a reincarnation of the Nerevar. That'd be cool.
You're right... it's complicated. Whatever the plot is, it's got to be more interesting than "that darn Mehrunes Dagon is at it again" like in Oblivion.
"Dragonborn" is a title attributed to Talos, a general of Nordic descent who became an emperor of Cyrodiil and later conquered all of Tamriel... and apparently became one of the Nine Divines. So, maybe the hero of Skyrim is an incarnation of Talos, sort of like how the hero in Morrowind is a reincarnation of the Nerevar. That'd be cool.
You're right... it's complicated. Whatever the plot is, it's got to be more interesting than "that darn Mehrunes Dagon is at it again" like in Oblivion.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:AlduinTheGoldenMan said:
As far as I can tell he's the Nordic representation of Akatosh. Mind you, there are plenty of regional variations of aedra and daedra. in the Khajiiti pantheon Mehrunes Dagon is represented as a kitten called Merrunz. I'm not entirely sure, but there's some kind of connection. TES lore is pretty vague sometimes.
I hope to get a key to this language very soon, that way I can start writing in the tounge of dragons.
Or any combination, now that class restrictions are out the window. For better or for worse.Mcoffey said:
LORE NUTS REPORT! I HAVE AN INTERPRETATION FOR YOU TO RIP APART.
Seems like (and there are many interpretations here) Akatosh really is "evil", and i mean not just evil but like villain of the decade evil, if you consider grand... kinda (i stress kinda) understandable revenge schemes as evil.
we know in the beginning was Anu, the original concept of order, king of stasis who created space, but then came Padomey, the original concept of chaos who created the possibility for change, IE Time (sound familiar?). From the interplay of "light and darkness" (and this is always said to be Anu=Light and Darkness=Padomey which i agree with, but there is no official stand on this, we know Order has the capability of being seen as Dark and Evil, Jyggalag is a great example, an Anuic god like the Aedra, but the destructive power and disregard for life commonly associated with daedra) came Nir, mother of creation, who loved Anu and made Padomey jealous, there was a fight and Nir became injured, and died giving birth to creation. And here's the first important part, Anu cast Padomey outside Time, Padomey still had the power to return after a time. When Padomey came back he hated the 12 worlds of creation, and so went about cleaving them with his sword, Anu came back and fought Padomey again, defeating him. To save what was left of creation Anu forged all the worlds into one, Nirn, while he was doing this Padomey regained his strength and impaled Anu through the chest, Anu with a sword through him had no choice but to cast them both outside of Time (the sword connecting the both of them together is important) The blood of Anu becomes the stars, the blood of Padomey becomes the Daedra and the Mixed blood of both gods becomes the et'Ada, Aedra. Padomey has already exhibited the power to return to the universe after being cast out of time, Anu has not, but has exhibited both the ability to cast Padomey outside of Time, and that being connected to Padomey in this act causes himself to travel outside of time as well. Padomey was very much alive at this point, and so reasonably Padomey would return, (Sithis, who is Canonically accepted to be Padomey has been whispering to mortals pretty much since they existed, so I at least see this as Padomey having returned some time before the mortal Ehlnofey as they were before becoming men and mer, were created) with Anu in tow. However we don't hear of this, instead the most powerful successor being we hear of is the chief of the newly formed Aedra (and mankar camoran refutes this but his claims had only Dagons words to back him up, which was based on knowledge originally given by Hermaeus Mora to Xarxes who was Akatosh's Scribe, who had millenia to make alterations and then give it to Mehrunes Dagon in the form of the Oghma Infinium, the Mysterium Xarxes is merely a reinterpretation of already reinterpreted and frankly suspect material, given Dagons history of being used and tricked by other Daedric lords time and time again, along with him [Back to Camoran] exhibiting very little knowledge of oblivion and the gods in the first place, getting oblivion realms mixed up and shit, poor show Camoran... Poor show...) Lorkhan and Akatosh, the two gods who are still part of every Tamrielic pantheon (except the Ka'Po'Tun who worship Tosh Raka [Arguably a mirror aspect of Akatosh, but i wont get into him] and the Dunmer who worship/ped the Tribunal). Now Lorkhan tricked (or simply with-held the full cost of it) the other Aedra into creating intelligent and powerful life on Nirn in the images they desired, the Daedra and many Aedra disagree'd, yet interestingly Lorkhan held so much power he didn't need the support of either party, and went along with his plan anyway, all of a sudden the Aedra found their power being drained and themselves pulled into Nirn, some (the 8 divines) accepted this and allowed their power to be drained into Nirn, essentially imprisoning themselves, some in their attempt to escape fled to the stars and in magnus' case the sun, and many cut themselves off from the spiritual plane becoming as mortal, and found the only way to survive was to procreate... A LOT, and after a few generations created the Ehlnofey (so i believe the elves were right in this respect, in that they were literally descended from the Aedra, as opposed to what Men believe, that they were created as a combined effort by the divines, only Lorkhan can be directly accredited for that, the 8 only accepted their fate and gave them power, the ehlnofey form was just, like i just mentioned, an intended bi-product of Lorkhan's trickery), but not before creating something... else, and We'll be meeting them come 11/11/11
.
Now in the wake of the Mer's rule over Tamriel, the joining point of the 12 worlds, we find Akatosh all of a sudden the ruler over the 8 remaining Aedra with any kind of power left, and they are pissed right off with Lorkhan, they rip out his heart and cast it into the earth, but being Aedra he doesn't die, only retreats, this is why he is not considered part of the current nine divines pantheon (not directly, I'll get onto Talos in a bit... by the way have you any concept of how colossoly badass Talos/Tiber Septim really is/was? hooooooooly shit, this guy makes Pelinal Whitestrake and Galerion look like prissy little schoolgirls), while the Nords did and still do worship Lorkhan as Shor, Shezzar in Tamrielic (and i will provide why i am connecting the two in a bit, and it will bequite interesting to other lore nuts out there as it provides a hint on the possible nature of our Dovahkiin), he is only a minor deity in Imperial religeon (as per Alessia's deal with the nords, to not write him out completely)
Now remember in the Atmoran culture, which was the only human culture (besides the redguards of Yokuda who are a whole other story) who were never enslaved by or integrated into Elven culture for generations, (instead choosing the slaughter those knife eared bastards all over skyrim like a boss) Akatosh was feared as Alduin the World Eater, so we have Shor (chief god of the nords) and Alduin (pretty much the devil), who have a history of fighting eachother, always to the tune of Alduin fucks over man because his Worshippers (to the Aedra, to be worshipped is literally to be given power) ask nicely. Then Shor comes along and backs up Man exclusively, and bitchslaps Alduin in the process, either through Avatars or Demigod "Shezzarines". Now you may be asking "how does this mean Shor is Lorkhan?", Well back in 2006 Michael Kirkbride, Elder scrolls lore-writer let this slip in relation to Lorkhan;
Lorkhan
1. Wulfharth L
2. Hjalti O
3. Ysmir R
4. Talos K
5. Arctus H
6. Septim A
N
Now let's go over each individual here, Wulfharth, resurrected by Shor as a champion, became worshipped by the nords as Ysmir. Hjalti, Became Tiber Septim and champion of Wulfharth/Ysmir (who at this point was Shor's champion). Ysmir as i just said was the Apotheosis of Wulfharth and Guide to Tiber Septim. Talos while commonly believed to be Tiber Septim is in fact a trinity of Wulfharth, Zurin Arctus and Tiber Septim. Zurin Arctus, Underking (the same name attributed to Ysmir) Resurrected as a champion of Shor to decimate the Numidium with the battlemages magic after Ysmir's betrayal by Tiber Septim (it wasn't such a big deal, still got the job done, plenty of elves got pasted, so Shor just wanted the thing blown up on Principal, and he was an avatar, not the god himself), and of course Tiber Septim himself, the name given to him by the nordic greybeards when they tought him the power of Thu'um, thus creating the most insanely powerful badass of the elder scrolls history, and dubbed by Kirkbride as the single most powerful figure (even Anu/Padomey included here) in elder scrolls Lore. (This guy was the third "Dragonborn" or Shezzarine, depicted on Alduins wall in a line of Four, remember who is on the end of that line? Oh yeah... Dovahkiin, you thought playing Morrowind as an epic reincarnated demi-god was awesome, try playing the reincarnation of a figure that was at one point considered more powerful than the forces which created space and time... And people actually doubt just how amazing skyrim will be? BAH!)
So as you can see, Kirkbrides little dyslexic breakdown of Lorkhan, coupled with the key historical context of each of those figures makes it pretty clear. Lorkhan IS Shor (and this is already stated on the wiki, but all this wall of text was needed for the rest of this), but is Lorkhan Anu? and how does that make Akatosh anything but a human friendly interpretation of Auri-El?
"Their defeat was merely a setback", I've hypothesized on the Dovahkiin being Shezzarine, so now how does Shor fit into that statement? At orkey's bidding (Orcish god, therefor a mer god) Alduin once ate the age of the Nords down to six, sounds wierd but yes being a dragon of time he can apparently do that, and limiting them to die children after only six years, Then king of skyrim, Wulfharth (pre Ysmir Apotheosis) prayed to shor to save them, being the human loving dragon hating god he is, he came and defeated (According to lore, and this is an interesting statement, like he did at the beginning of creation, only seem to remember Anu/Padomey fighting at that specific time... funny) Alduin's arguably closest attempt at finishing the Atmorans once and for all. but "Their defeat was merely a setback".
Now the Altmer worship Akatosh as Auri-El the great general.
And also remember the Altmer belief system, that is in this interpretations case partly correct, that they are the literal descendants of the Aedra, and that Lorkhan cheated them of their immortality and heaven (which is where they get mixed up, were it not for Lorkhans betrayal there would be no Altmer to speak of), this is of course not unique to the Altmer, all Mer besides the relatively young Dunmer hold this belief.
But only the Altmer (What appears to be) have an in character quote by again, Kirkbride;
What appears to be an Altmeri comentary on Talos
To kill Man is to reach Heaven, from where we came before the Doom Drum's iniquity. When we accomplish this, we can escape the mockery and long shame of the Material Prison.
To achieve this goal, we must:
1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.
2) Remove Man not just from the world, but from the Pattern of Possibility, so that the very idea of them can be forgotten and thereby never again repeated.
3) With Talos and the Sons of Talos removed, the Dragon will become ours to unbind. The world of mortals will be over. The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden, spilling time along the innumerable roads we once travelled. And with that we will regain the mantle of the imperishable spirit.
Now remember the "Doom Drum" is an Elven name for Lorkhan, who they revile as the most unholy of Aedra.
Now just recently, Martin Septim spent a short time as an Avatar of the Alessian Akatosh, dying in the process, he was the last of the septim line, so bam, part 3 is done, releasing Akatosh from the deal he made with Alessia (so long as our joined blood rules the imperial throne bla bla dragonfires, bla, safe from daedric armies). A deal that a historically man hating, Mer loving god (now I'm not talking about Alduin here, not by name anyway, though i do still believe Akatosh and Auri-El ARE Alduin, I'm talking about Auri-El) made to help man fight mer, by cutting off the source of their daedric armies, IE no more Back up from Meridia and friends. Why would Akatosh make this deal? Because of the nature of the Aedra, worship is power, and the Ayleids were poised to decimate the greatest wellspring of power since the dawn of time, the Alessian empire, so the choice was only natural, leading me to believe Akatosh only really 'loves' the elves when it it's worth something to him, and seeing as he has just had many thousands of years worth of constant power-ups from the imperial and remaining elven pantheons before being released from his deal, (and here I am kinda putting words in his mouth, but it more than fits the profile of Alduin/Auri-El, and our only concept of the good and pure akatosh comes from a temporary truce with a slave race who had heard nothing but "Auri-El this" and "Akatosh that" for thousands of years. he doesn't need either race, and believes himself powerful enough to eat the world, and with no Shezzarine in sight what's stopping him? Prophecy? *****-please, prophecy is a mortal construct and half the elder scrolls have gone in his favor anyway, the Daedra Worshipping Jagar Tharn was deposed before he could run the empire into ruin, and the Champion of Cyrodiil pretty much hand guided the end of the Septim line.
The first three dragonborn are long dead, (1 = Pelinal 2 = Reman? i don't know, Ysgramor is also an option here, but Pelinal and Reman have the bigger elf-kill count), all Akatosh has to do is kill the Dovahkiin of Alduins wall and prophecy is debunked, Shor/Talos and all his Avatars are out of the picture and we're back to 8 Divines led by Akatosh as it's one almighty power base, only 1 step to go, wipe out everything that is keeping him chained to Nirn, IE the Descendants of the Ehlnofey, those Altmer will sure be in for a surprise.
What about the dragons? remember those Aedra that cut themselves off from the spirit plane before their power could be siphoned away? Oh yeah, while they might not have been in on Padomeys/Akatosh/Auri-El/Alduin's plan all along, they will be more than willing to follow him back to heaven, after all they are not ehlnofey, they aren't in his way.
Thus, skyrim.
TL;DR
Anu=Lorkhan=Shor=Represented on the Pantheon by the Colossal Badass Talos, keeping power Balanced between Talos and Akatosh. Good guy as far as the world not getting eaten goes.
Padomey=Sithis=Auri-El=Akatosh=Alduin. Douchebag who want's to eat the world.
Dovahkiin=Shezzarine=Talos Reincarnated=Possibly the greaters Player Character Concept of all time, your pretty much Jesus if he ate dragons and killed gods.
Seems like (and there are many interpretations here) Akatosh really is "evil", and i mean not just evil but like villain of the decade evil, if you consider grand... kinda (i stress kinda) understandable revenge schemes as evil.
we know in the beginning was Anu, the original concept of order, king of stasis who created space, but then came Padomey, the original concept of chaos who created the possibility for change, IE Time (sound familiar?). From the interplay of "light and darkness" (and this is always said to be Anu=Light and Darkness=Padomey which i agree with, but there is no official stand on this, we know Order has the capability of being seen as Dark and Evil, Jyggalag is a great example, an Anuic god like the Aedra, but the destructive power and disregard for life commonly associated with daedra) came Nir, mother of creation, who loved Anu and made Padomey jealous, there was a fight and Nir became injured, and died giving birth to creation. And here's the first important part, Anu cast Padomey outside Time, Padomey still had the power to return after a time. When Padomey came back he hated the 12 worlds of creation, and so went about cleaving them with his sword, Anu came back and fought Padomey again, defeating him. To save what was left of creation Anu forged all the worlds into one, Nirn, while he was doing this Padomey regained his strength and impaled Anu through the chest, Anu with a sword through him had no choice but to cast them both outside of Time (the sword connecting the both of them together is important) The blood of Anu becomes the stars, the blood of Padomey becomes the Daedra and the Mixed blood of both gods becomes the et'Ada, Aedra. Padomey has already exhibited the power to return to the universe after being cast out of time, Anu has not, but has exhibited both the ability to cast Padomey outside of Time, and that being connected to Padomey in this act causes himself to travel outside of time as well. Padomey was very much alive at this point, and so reasonably Padomey would return, (Sithis, who is Canonically accepted to be Padomey has been whispering to mortals pretty much since they existed, so I at least see this as Padomey having returned some time before the mortal Ehlnofey as they were before becoming men and mer, were created) with Anu in tow. However we don't hear of this, instead the most powerful successor being we hear of is the chief of the newly formed Aedra (and mankar camoran refutes this but his claims had only Dagons words to back him up, which was based on knowledge originally given by Hermaeus Mora to Xarxes who was Akatosh's Scribe, who had millenia to make alterations and then give it to Mehrunes Dagon in the form of the Oghma Infinium, the Mysterium Xarxes is merely a reinterpretation of already reinterpreted and frankly suspect material, given Dagons history of being used and tricked by other Daedric lords time and time again, along with him [Back to Camoran] exhibiting very little knowledge of oblivion and the gods in the first place, getting oblivion realms mixed up and shit, poor show Camoran... Poor show...) Lorkhan and Akatosh, the two gods who are still part of every Tamrielic pantheon (except the Ka'Po'Tun who worship Tosh Raka [Arguably a mirror aspect of Akatosh, but i wont get into him] and the Dunmer who worship/ped the Tribunal). Now Lorkhan tricked (or simply with-held the full cost of it) the other Aedra into creating intelligent and powerful life on Nirn in the images they desired, the Daedra and many Aedra disagree'd, yet interestingly Lorkhan held so much power he didn't need the support of either party, and went along with his plan anyway, all of a sudden the Aedra found their power being drained and themselves pulled into Nirn, some (the 8 divines) accepted this and allowed their power to be drained into Nirn, essentially imprisoning themselves, some in their attempt to escape fled to the stars and in magnus' case the sun, and many cut themselves off from the spiritual plane becoming as mortal, and found the only way to survive was to procreate... A LOT, and after a few generations created the Ehlnofey (so i believe the elves were right in this respect, in that they were literally descended from the Aedra, as opposed to what Men believe, that they were created as a combined effort by the divines, only Lorkhan can be directly accredited for that, the 8 only accepted their fate and gave them power, the ehlnofey form was just, like i just mentioned, an intended bi-product of Lorkhan's trickery), but not before creating something... else, and We'll be meeting them come 11/11/11
. Now in the wake of the Mer's rule over Tamriel, the joining point of the 12 worlds, we find Akatosh all of a sudden the ruler over the 8 remaining Aedra with any kind of power left, and they are pissed right off with Lorkhan, they rip out his heart and cast it into the earth, but being Aedra he doesn't die, only retreats, this is why he is not considered part of the current nine divines pantheon (not directly, I'll get onto Talos in a bit... by the way have you any concept of how colossoly badass Talos/Tiber Septim really is/was? hooooooooly shit, this guy makes Pelinal Whitestrake and Galerion look like prissy little schoolgirls), while the Nords did and still do worship Lorkhan as Shor, Shezzar in Tamrielic (and i will provide why i am connecting the two in a bit, and it will bequite interesting to other lore nuts out there as it provides a hint on the possible nature of our Dovahkiin), he is only a minor deity in Imperial religeon (as per Alessia's deal with the nords, to not write him out completely)
Now remember in the Atmoran culture, which was the only human culture (besides the redguards of Yokuda who are a whole other story) who were never enslaved by or integrated into Elven culture for generations, (instead choosing the slaughter those knife eared bastards all over skyrim like a boss) Akatosh was feared as Alduin the World Eater, so we have Shor (chief god of the nords) and Alduin (pretty much the devil), who have a history of fighting eachother, always to the tune of Alduin fucks over man because his Worshippers (to the Aedra, to be worshipped is literally to be given power) ask nicely. Then Shor comes along and backs up Man exclusively, and bitchslaps Alduin in the process, either through Avatars or Demigod "Shezzarines". Now you may be asking "how does this mean Shor is Lorkhan?", Well back in 2006 Michael Kirkbride, Elder scrolls lore-writer let this slip in relation to Lorkhan;
Lorkhan
1. Wulfharth L
2. Hjalti O
3. Ysmir R
4. Talos K
5. Arctus H
6. Septim A
N
Now let's go over each individual here, Wulfharth, resurrected by Shor as a champion, became worshipped by the nords as Ysmir. Hjalti, Became Tiber Septim and champion of Wulfharth/Ysmir (who at this point was Shor's champion). Ysmir as i just said was the Apotheosis of Wulfharth and Guide to Tiber Septim. Talos while commonly believed to be Tiber Septim is in fact a trinity of Wulfharth, Zurin Arctus and Tiber Septim. Zurin Arctus, Underking (the same name attributed to Ysmir) Resurrected as a champion of Shor to decimate the Numidium with the battlemages magic after Ysmir's betrayal by Tiber Septim (it wasn't such a big deal, still got the job done, plenty of elves got pasted, so Shor just wanted the thing blown up on Principal, and he was an avatar, not the god himself), and of course Tiber Septim himself, the name given to him by the nordic greybeards when they tought him the power of Thu'um, thus creating the most insanely powerful badass of the elder scrolls history, and dubbed by Kirkbride as the single most powerful figure (even Anu/Padomey included here) in elder scrolls Lore. (This guy was the third "Dragonborn" or Shezzarine, depicted on Alduins wall in a line of Four, remember who is on the end of that line? Oh yeah... Dovahkiin, you thought playing Morrowind as an epic reincarnated demi-god was awesome, try playing the reincarnation of a figure that was at one point considered more powerful than the forces which created space and time... And people actually doubt just how amazing skyrim will be? BAH!)
So as you can see, Kirkbrides little dyslexic breakdown of Lorkhan, coupled with the key historical context of each of those figures makes it pretty clear. Lorkhan IS Shor (and this is already stated on the wiki, but all this wall of text was needed for the rest of this), but is Lorkhan Anu? and how does that make Akatosh anything but a human friendly interpretation of Auri-El?
"Their defeat was merely a setback", I've hypothesized on the Dovahkiin being Shezzarine, so now how does Shor fit into that statement? At orkey's bidding (Orcish god, therefor a mer god) Alduin once ate the age of the Nords down to six, sounds wierd but yes being a dragon of time he can apparently do that, and limiting them to die children after only six years, Then king of skyrim, Wulfharth (pre Ysmir Apotheosis) prayed to shor to save them, being the human loving dragon hating god he is, he came and defeated (According to lore, and this is an interesting statement, like he did at the beginning of creation, only seem to remember Anu/Padomey fighting at that specific time... funny) Alduin's arguably closest attempt at finishing the Atmorans once and for all. but "Their defeat was merely a setback".
Now the Altmer worship Akatosh as Auri-El the great general.
And also remember the Altmer belief system, that is in this interpretations case partly correct, that they are the literal descendants of the Aedra, and that Lorkhan cheated them of their immortality and heaven (which is where they get mixed up, were it not for Lorkhans betrayal there would be no Altmer to speak of), this is of course not unique to the Altmer, all Mer besides the relatively young Dunmer hold this belief.
But only the Altmer (What appears to be) have an in character quote by again, Kirkbride;
What appears to be an Altmeri comentary on Talos
To kill Man is to reach Heaven, from where we came before the Doom Drum's iniquity. When we accomplish this, we can escape the mockery and long shame of the Material Prison.
To achieve this goal, we must:
1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.
2) Remove Man not just from the world, but from the Pattern of Possibility, so that the very idea of them can be forgotten and thereby never again repeated.
3) With Talos and the Sons of Talos removed, the Dragon will become ours to unbind. The world of mortals will be over. The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden, spilling time along the innumerable roads we once travelled. And with that we will regain the mantle of the imperishable spirit.
Now remember the "Doom Drum" is an Elven name for Lorkhan, who they revile as the most unholy of Aedra.
Now just recently, Martin Septim spent a short time as an Avatar of the Alessian Akatosh, dying in the process, he was the last of the septim line, so bam, part 3 is done, releasing Akatosh from the deal he made with Alessia (so long as our joined blood rules the imperial throne bla bla dragonfires, bla, safe from daedric armies). A deal that a historically man hating, Mer loving god (now I'm not talking about Alduin here, not by name anyway, though i do still believe Akatosh and Auri-El ARE Alduin, I'm talking about Auri-El) made to help man fight mer, by cutting off the source of their daedric armies, IE no more Back up from Meridia and friends. Why would Akatosh make this deal? Because of the nature of the Aedra, worship is power, and the Ayleids were poised to decimate the greatest wellspring of power since the dawn of time, the Alessian empire, so the choice was only natural, leading me to believe Akatosh only really 'loves' the elves when it it's worth something to him, and seeing as he has just had many thousands of years worth of constant power-ups from the imperial and remaining elven pantheons before being released from his deal, (and here I am kinda putting words in his mouth, but it more than fits the profile of Alduin/Auri-El, and our only concept of the good and pure akatosh comes from a temporary truce with a slave race who had heard nothing but "Auri-El this" and "Akatosh that" for thousands of years. he doesn't need either race, and believes himself powerful enough to eat the world, and with no Shezzarine in sight what's stopping him? Prophecy? *****-please, prophecy is a mortal construct and half the elder scrolls have gone in his favor anyway, the Daedra Worshipping Jagar Tharn was deposed before he could run the empire into ruin, and the Champion of Cyrodiil pretty much hand guided the end of the Septim line.
The first three dragonborn are long dead, (1 = Pelinal 2 = Reman? i don't know, Ysgramor is also an option here, but Pelinal and Reman have the bigger elf-kill count), all Akatosh has to do is kill the Dovahkiin of Alduins wall and prophecy is debunked, Shor/Talos and all his Avatars are out of the picture and we're back to 8 Divines led by Akatosh as it's one almighty power base, only 1 step to go, wipe out everything that is keeping him chained to Nirn, IE the Descendants of the Ehlnofey, those Altmer will sure be in for a surprise.
What about the dragons? remember those Aedra that cut themselves off from the spirit plane before their power could be siphoned away? Oh yeah, while they might not have been in on Padomeys/Akatosh/Auri-El/Alduin's plan all along, they will be more than willing to follow him back to heaven, after all they are not ehlnofey, they aren't in his way.
Thus, skyrim.
TL;DR
Anu=Lorkhan=Shor=Represented on the Pantheon by the Colossal Badass Talos, keeping power Balanced between Talos and Akatosh. Good guy as far as the world not getting eaten goes.
Padomey=Sithis=Auri-El=Akatosh=Alduin. Douchebag who want's to eat the world.
Dovahkiin=Shezzarine=Talos Reincarnated=Possibly the greaters Player Character Concept of all time, your pretty much Jesus if he ate dragons and killed gods.
This could also leave the Champion of Cyrodiil open as a failed Shezzarine (unlikely as he is a crappy candidate for one of the four on Alduins wall... barely killed any elves at all), Very successful pawn of Akatosh, or just a regular guy with no Gods pulling his strings. And Dagon as either a pawn of Akatosh OR Hermaeus Mora (because Hermy is a bro? or maybe just didn't particularly want Akatosh being free'd and breaking all his shit), more likely Akatosh considering A) It went so perfectly in his favor (Septim line ended at the height of his power) and B) Xarxes had every chance to edit the Oghma infinium in Auri-El's favor before giving it to Dagon so he could write the Mysterium Xarxes.
Though we really don't know just how smart a title like "god of knowledge" actually implies, or what his agenda in giving the knowledge of the Oghma Infinium TRULY was.
Though we really don't know just how smart a title like "god of knowledge" actually implies, or what his agenda in giving the knowledge of the Oghma Infinium TRULY was.
@Unacomn
I could hardly speculate on multiple endings (but if New Vegas taught bethesda anything it's that bitches love multiple endings, awww yeeaahh), BUT about the dragon break, if the collossal wall of text i wrote has any truth to it, I see it as the likely outcome of "killing" akatosh, seeing he is Aedra and therefore bound to Nirn, he can't go to void, he can't go to Aetherius, he can't hardly die, only be cast out of time by beings of equal or greater power, IE Talos, Shezzar or the Shezzarine/Dovahkiin (or perhaps the dreamseeve? would that even matter to a being that powerful?)
Also not only would it make the most sense in the elder scrolls universe, it would make the most sense as far as continuing the series goes, the Dovahkiin casts Akatosh out of time, "Kills" him if you will, there is a massive dragon break leading to exponential creative possibilities for spinnoffs (A-la redguar, battlespire, shadowkey etc) over the next year or so, not to mention new elder scrolls games and books and the like, it would be EPIC.
I could hardly speculate on multiple endings (but if New Vegas taught bethesda anything it's that bitches love multiple endings, awww yeeaahh), BUT about the dragon break, if the collossal wall of text i wrote has any truth to it, I see it as the likely outcome of "killing" akatosh, seeing he is Aedra and therefore bound to Nirn, he can't go to void, he can't go to Aetherius, he can't hardly die, only be cast out of time by beings of equal or greater power, IE Talos, Shezzar or the Shezzarine/Dovahkiin (or perhaps the dreamseeve? would that even matter to a being that powerful?)
Also not only would it make the most sense in the elder scrolls universe, it would make the most sense as far as continuing the series goes, the Dovahkiin casts Akatosh out of time, "Kills" him if you will, there is a massive dragon break leading to exponential creative possibilities for spinnoffs (A-la redguar, battlespire, shadowkey etc) over the next year or so, not to mention new elder scrolls games and books and the like, it would be EPIC.
When we consider skyrim as an Atmoran culture, which is far FAAAARRR older than the Allesian empire, we look at all the old Atmoran kings of skyrim, from Ysgramor and onwards, and even before him in ancient Atmora, Shor has always been the patron of kings of man, and Akatosh the enemy of man/shor as the Altmeri God-general Auri-El, and feared by the Atmorans as Alduin the World Eater, Even Hjalti Early-Beard who later went on to become general Talos and Tiber Septim, didn't have a drop of Alessian blood in him, making the entire Septim line sovereign from Akatosh's literal blood, the entire Amulet of kings/Dragonfires story as the Imperial orthodoxy tells it is swiss cheese, it makes no sense!TheRightToArmBears said:
Hjalti Early-Beard is in no way related to Alessia or the Remans, and the Remans are also in no way related to Alessia. Martin is also in no way related to Hjalti Early-Beard (the septim line lost it's blood purity at the succession of Uriel the IV who's father was a commoner and mother was only a septim through marriage)
Not to mention Vershidue Shai never wore the amulet of kings, and he absolutely was no relative of Alessia's, hell he was a Tsaesci.
And Mankar Cameron also wore it
No i believe the whole Damn Imperial Orthodox story of it is a lie, probably intended to keep Alessia's line in power. The choosy nature of the Amulet of kings, lies in Akatosh's nature as a divine, to keep and increase his power requires lots and lots of faith, so the wearer of the amulet must have the qualities of an emperor, simple as that. That also casts doubt on the true nature of the amulet, if it were true that the Amulet chooses emperors that people would follow in faith, why Mankar Camoran who worshipped Dagon? My guess is that the Amulet is something like a soul gem, the center gem is stated as literally being an ayleid soul gem on the oblivion wiki, along with these lines afterwards;
"The soul of each reigning emperor is enshrined within the central stone, presumably during the coronation ritual involving the Dragonfires and the divine Covenant. In this way Cyrodiil's rulers are brought together in death, forming an 'oversoul' that may provide counsel to their successors. The amulet may only be worn by certain individuals - those who can be said to have the 'Dragon Blood' in their veins. The specific requirements, however, are a subject of debate, and they may simply call for the attributes of a ruler or some divine mandate."
This oversoul is what is "joined" with the blood of akatosh, the same oversoul that gives "counsel" to the wearer, the nature of the counsel is unspecified and exactly how strong an influence this oversoul has is also unspecified, but the nature of a soulgem may provide an answer, a soulgem filled beyond it's capacity "leaks" it's inner essence, influencing the soul of the wearer/hander with the soul (or in this case, souls) trapped within it. If Akatosh's blood controlled the souls within, and therefore corrupted the wearer, even Mankar Camoran would be a fitting Emperor. This doesn't explain the actions of Tiber Septim however, as he did indeed wear the amulet, yet took counsel from an avatar of Shor in Ysmir/Wulfharth, perhaps the presence of another Divine neutralised the power of the Amulet... who knows.
Prophegandist is spot on IMO, and Cryo sorta hit the mark, if you can't be bothered to read the gigantic bottom of page 1 post i made (and believe me, i understand lol), I'll tl;dr my rants about Talos:Cryo84R said:
On Alduin's wall there is 4 Dragonborn standing in a row, the Dovahkiin is the last and most prominent in the line, I believe the first 3 to be, Pelinal Whitestrake (Because he killed a lot of elves), Reman Cyrodiil (because he killed even more elves) and Tiber Septim (because he was such a monumentally badass genocidal elf murdering maniac that he was granted Apotheosis to become part of the trinity that is the Divine Talos, who represents Shezzar/Lorkhan in the imperial Pantheon).
Now i don't believe for a second that the dovahkiin is related to Tiber Septim by blood, as the Septim line technically became only Septim by name loooong ago.
BUT an Avatar of Talos, and "heir" in that you are the next champion of Shezzar in the Four "Shezzarine" line, absolutely.