Dragon's Dogma: How to Screw Up a Game in Five and a Half Simple Steps.

gim73

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I'm suprised nobody has brought it up:

NIGHT IS TOO FRAKKIN' DARK!!!

Yeah, I did some crafting of weapons, and didn't really realize what I was doing when I crafted away my LANTERN (which costs a small fortune btw), and when night came around, I was blindly walking around while monsters came at me. It's seriously as dark at night in an open plain as it is inside a cave.

Of course, alot of this stuff adds alot of cool balance. Like when you are fighting the lizardmen in the well and they soak your stuff so you really can't see them well. And finding the fine balance between being heavy and lightly encumbered. Running around in the battlefield while jumping to get up the big monsters requires some strategy. At least the game is generous enough to actually let you PAUSE and use items out of your menu without limiting you to how many(dragon age) or having enemies attack you with your menu open (Infinite Undiscovery).

I like Dragons Dogma despite the few flaws. It doesn't change that it has a fun combat dynamic and is different from the herd. Then again, I see absolutely no flaws in Skyrim either. I can actually play skyrim for fun, rather than play a minimalist leveling game like I do in Oblivion (which I actually got bored of and preferred Morrowind). Everyone's different, just some people wind up stealing the elder scroll and getting the gray foxs mask at level 2.
 

Valiard

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Feb 26, 2009
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if you want to complain play betrayal at krondor then talk about slow clutzy gameplay
 

GasparNolasco

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Those are kinda nitpicky topics.
I actually grown to like the lack of a fast travel option and slow paced travelling. Finding shortcuts and administrating quests per area are, actually, aspects of the game. Fast travel often makes the world seem a bit small to me and, if you put up the option, people will simply not explore after a certain point.
I agree inventory could be better, though. Weapons and armor could be in a shared menu or something like that as could be the consumables and such. but DD wan't the only game to commit this sin. Elder Scrolls series inventory is also nightmarish and don't even get me started on The Witcher 2. At least when you're crafting or selling in DD you can automatically draw stuff from storage, in Witcher 2 you had to walk all the way to the area hotel...

It's a great, but imperfect game, IMO. It dared in a number of fields modern RPGs are conservative. People often talk about it as if the flaws diminished the enjoyment and I really don't think that's the case.
 

lastverdance

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1.) Fast travel issue: Think about it... If Dragon's Dogma does have fast travel; well say good bye to random events. Just clicking on a button on the map hinders you in enjoying the immerse world of Gransys. For example I was just walking around to Blue moon tower so i can get some good loots. Suddenly, bam, gryphon'd (yes, I made a new verb) in the face.

2.) Speed: So you like fast-paced type games? My only question is are you a warrior by chance or any of the heavily armored brutes? The heavier you are in the game, the longer it takes you to journey to your destination. Me, well I am an assassin, I move pretty fast and with the right augments especially from the strider I never have to see myself staring at the screen as the arisen stop to take a breather. Leg Strength and Grit is what you need then!

3.) Monsters: Well I don't mind the constant battles with the same monsters, but I HATE IT THAT THEY DON'T SCALE! I have high hopes for capcom on bringing in dlc with more monsters, and scaling the monsters at least 10 or 20 levels higher than me to spice up the difficulty of the game.
4.) Pawns: I hate my pawn. That's why I don't have one. I could have a pawn, but choose not too. As said earlier I am an assassin in the game so I gain huge benefit from not having a pawn.
5.) Inventory: I'm by myself throughout the game, so I only have one inventory. I do agree with you though, I wish they have like hotkeys... it's a pain when your switching arrows.

You are forgetting the biggest problem that most people will agree on: length. I finished the game no side quest or anything just all main mission, and it only took me a good 8hours. You got to agree with me the length of the game is just too damn short. The salvation only appeared (fully) in two missions. I didn't even considered them once as a threat to Gransys until they attacked the great wall. AND THAT WAS THEIR LAST APPEARANCE?

But I forgive capcom for all the mistakes they made, and will cherish Dragon's Dogma for sometime. But do remember Capcom is stepping out of its comfort zone to compete against wrpg. Dragon's Dogma is just the foundation. I will continue to support it, until Dragon's Dogma predecessors can triumph.
 

Smooth Operator

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Yup those are all glaring faults, but you realize ofcourse this started a war... fanboys will defend it blind till the end of days.

But my bigger gripe with is the fucking boring setting, it's a fantasy game why the fuck did you make everything realistic an boring looking, I don't want to go on a school field trip I want to explore an enthralling environment... and this is none of that.
Like I already said before I am far more excited for the sequel because they clearly didn't take the time to finish this.
 

Simonoly

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Hmm interesting. You have taken to this game completely different to myself

1) I have no problem with the ferrystone system. I complete a quest and then I use a ferrystone to return to Gran Soren and from there I start a new quest. Later on you get a permanent means of fast travel where you can set up a conduit between gran soren and any other location on the map. It's not really a game designed for you to just shoot all across the map doing objectives in a similar way to Skyrim. That's why many quests do not require you to go to multiple locations. You choose a quest, you venture out to do it and then you return to Gran Soren to take on another. Dragon's Dogma is all about planning in advance and not about doing things on the fly. But this style of gameplay won't be to everyone's tastes.

2) I agree with this actually. You can obviously lighten your load so you move quicker, but sometimes it would be nice to be able to sprint a bit further. In towns you have infinite stamina. I think that you should have infinite stamina outside too but when you get into a fight it then starts draining. Might be a little immersion breaking and difficult to implement but it would help us get the job done quicker.

3) I like that most monsters spawn in the same locations (there are many random encounters too). It's done this way so you remember where particular enemy mobs dwell so you plan your journey accordingly. For example I was doing an escort quest from Gran Soren to the Shadow Fort and I was going to go one way, but I knew there were loads of arsehole bandits on that road so I went another route which was still risky but less so than the route with the bandits. But there are also random encounters interspersed within areas where you find the same enemies to mix things up every now and again. It's a sort of Dark Souls style enemy deployment. Some people will like it, others simply will not.

4) I suppose this is just what we're going to get as a by-product of the system. I've trained my pawn to speak less which has helped a bit but unfortunately other people have not done the same with their pawns as they won't shut up at all (maybe it doesn't carry over into other people's games?). I hope a sequel is made where Pawns have a checklist of things to say or a way of knowing that certain bits of information are not relevant anymore as you've already encountered it. But I don't know how you could expect Pawns to have any personality. They're disposable husks and the game makes that very clear. You're not really supposed to be getting attached to any of the pawns. They are your loyal mindless servants and nothing more.

5) Yep the inventory system sucks. What I find odd is the inclusion of a separate menu for equipment, that's just irritating. I agree something like Dragon Age would be better. But a shared inventory system would be a nightmare with other people's pawns spamming your herbs etc. Maybe just a shared inventory for equipment.

6) The story is definitely not what this game is about, although I think they could have paced it a lot lot better. However, it wouldn't be a Capcom game if all the characters and plotlines weren't horrendouly corny and over the top.

It's not a perfect game by far and there are some things in the game which I find questionable. But it's an admirable first effort from a team with seemingly little experience of the genre. And hats off to them for trying something new with the Pawn system.
 

lastverdance

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Jun 3, 2012
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I made sure my game is very dark. I dimmed everything to add the emphasis of complete darkness. Me and my trusty lantern is all I need.
 

killcannon71

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Well it seems that it's a love or hate game. People either love it because it's different, or hate it because it's different. Well I guess there are people who dislike it too because it's not fantasy enough? or something? I'm not sure how to even rectify that, maybe make the grass purple and have my little ponies instead of griffons? shrug. Anyway hope the people who liked it will buy it, and the people who are on the fence will give it a chance and a rent and that Capcom will make another one, because I want more rpg's out there and less MW3's. But it seems like the majority of people who replied enjoyed the game and that bodes well. Until pawns stop saying aught, make mine Dragon's Dogma.
 

DigitalAtlas

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Dear OP, it sounds to me like you would just absolutely hate Dark Souls. Please don't buy it and make this EXACT same thread.
 

natster43

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Seems like kinda minor but annoying problems, especially the enemies in the same spot each time. Either way if I do get this game it is going to be for the Resident Evil 6 demo mostly.
 

martyrdrebel27

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Atmos Duality said:
martyrdrebel27 said:
realistic as in the medicinal qualities of herbs have to be discovered by experimentation. do you think people just automatically discovered the benefits of plants like aloe vera? no, they had to experiment with it. in oblivion, you combine wheat and corn enough times and suddenly you know what other plants do. in skyrim, you only discover the uses of plants by using the plants.
Well, fair's fair. I just thought your wording of it was hilarious given the context of "alchemy".

that's what i mean by realistic you smartass.
Oh lighten up. -_-
okay, i can see what you were going for, and you see what i was going for so we're good here.

consider me lightened up. i must've used a feather potion. just like in real life.
 

killcannon71

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Mr.K. said:
Yup those are all glaring faults, but you realize ofcourse this started a war... fanboys will defend it blind till the end of days.

But my bigger gripe with is the fucking boring setting, it's a fantasy game why the fuck did you make everything realistic an boring looking, I don't want to go on a school field trip I want to explore an enthralling environment... and this is none of that.
Like I already said before I am far more excited for the sequel because they clearly didn't take the time to finish this.
And, by the by, there really haven't been any "fanboy" posts on here.Most everyone who has posted a positive reaction to the game have noted and remarked on the flaws of the game. And most of us have also said we have played Skyrim and most other rpg's, pc and console.
 

CD-R

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gim73 said:
I'm suprised nobody has brought it up:

NIGHT IS TOO FRAKKIN' DARK!!!
Ever try going out in a heavily wooded area without a light source at night? It looks just like it does in Dragon's Dogma.
 

CD-R

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Dandark said:
I actully was planning to buy Dragons dogma on day 1 since it was looking pretty good, however I decided against it when I heard about day 1 on disk DLC. It's Capcom so I thought I may as well wait for the "SUPER MEGA ULTRA HYPER DELUXE GAME OF THE YEAR UBER 1337 COMPLETE!1!!!1!!1!" edition that has all the DLC.

However now im not sure if i'll get it or not, it sounds like it's got some irritating problems but it did still look pretty cool so i'll probably give it a rent at some point to see if it's worth buying or not.
The DLC isn't anything substantial. It's just some weapons, a set of female armor, some hairstyles and some extra quests. It's not like it's half a fighting game roster or anything to get worked up over. If you're undecided about getting it and want an idea of how it plays, there is a demo also the developers posted a 2 hour stream of game play. However I'd suggest watching this more hilarious stream.

http://videogamesawesome.com/2012/05/24/dragons-dogma-is-awesome/
 

Scars Unseen

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Thespian said:
I actually got a lot of these points just from the demo.

I agree with what you said and you put it rather well.
A bad game is a punch to the gut - A bad game that could have been good is a knife to the gut.
But a bad game that could have been good, but was made bad not by core design flaws but by sloppy interfacing and irritating mechanics that weigh it down? That's just twisting the knife.

It sucks knowing when something is unbearable just because they didn't do the simple things right.
Then it's a good thing that Dragon's Dogma is a great game despite its actual flaws and in part because of what some people that have to have everything "now damnit!" perceive as flaws. Dragon's Dogma would certainly be a lesser game with Elder Scrolls style fast travel.
 

Dandark

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CD-R said:
Dandark said:
I actully was planning to buy Dragons dogma on day 1 since it was looking pretty good, however I decided against it when I heard about day 1 on disk DLC. It's Capcom so I thought I may as well wait for the "SUPER MEGA ULTRA HYPER DELUXE GAME OF THE YEAR UBER 1337 COMPLETE!1!!!1!!1!" edition that has all the DLC.

However now im not sure if i'll get it or not, it sounds like it's got some irritating problems but it did still look pretty cool so i'll probably give it a rent at some point to see if it's worth buying or not.
The DLC isn't anything substantial. It's just some weapons, a set of female armor, some hairstyles and some extra quests. It's not like it's half a fighting game roster or anything to get worked up over. If you're undecided about getting it an idea of how it plays, there is a demo also the developers posted a 2 hour stream of game play. However I'd suggest watching this more hilarious stream.

http://videogamesawesome.com/2012/05/24/dragons-dogma-is-awesome/
It isn't so much that I think I need the DLC to play, it's just that I hate on disk DLC so im not buying it. To be fair to Capcom they have said that they are now stopping on disk DLC but it was too late to get it off of upcoming games like Dragons Dogma so im actully reconsidering it and it does look pretty good.

Im saving up for some other things at the moment but later in the year it may be something I try to buy, prefrably new, so im just going to hold off, im already occupied with Skyrim anyway and since they are releasing new DLC this summer I don't want to get any more Fantasy RPGs quite yet.
Im just not too sure how long it will last me, Im also thinking about the Witcher 2, gah! Why are there so many cool fantasy games coming out now?
 

DorkRunner

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I, like a few others, also disagree with many of your points, but I do definitely respect your right to dislike something :). Same with me and Fallout 3, Fable and a number of other games; lots of others like them, and I even enjoy them somewhat, but for the most part they just aren't to my specific taste. I'd rather play Borderlands than Fallout because I think first person shooters benefit more from fast paced combat rather than forcing in too many of the RPG elements (and VATS is abhorrent to me, way to make an "easy" button on any difficulty but the hardest). Anyway, on to the actual disagreement, which I hope to present respectfully.

Being honest, the lack of fast travel sometimes bothers me, but sometimes I absolutely LOVE that it's not there. Sure, places are far apart, and take quite a bit of time to travel between, but as some others have pointed out, it really makes you feel like you're adventuring. Also, the map isn't quite as large as other games that definitely need a fast travel system (such as Elder Scrolls), so it's feasible on that account. Also, if this game did have fast travel, a number of other gameplay elements that I enjoy would be nilched. You're supposed to prepare for setting out, knowing that if you bring too much, you won't be able to efficiently loot, but if you bring too little, then you could be in for some hurt. Also, since the health bar doesn't fully heal with spells (temporary perma-damage is one of my favorite new concepts about the game), the lack of ability to do anything about that unless you have consumables or somehow make it back to town on really low health makes for an interesting and fun experience not found elsewhere. Not to mention that most people who enjoy this game love the sense of immersion, such as enemies having somewhat realistic locations and the discovery of new locations nestled in with the familiarity of traveling the old. The only issue I had with lack of fast travel was all the freaking escort quests that they have... but I'd rather they solved them by having less of them, or making the distance shorter. Really, why do four people all need to go to the Shadowfort, and I have to escort each of them from Grand Soren individually? Ugh....
One solution I wouldn't have minded is that, later in the game once you've traveled to each place and back forty times, they then give you a *limited* fast travel system. What I mean by that is, you can only fast travel at specific locations, and it costs money (like the Skyrim Cart that is rather unnecessary except for speed runs). That way, people still need to prepare when setting out, but you don't have to go from Cassardis to Gran Soren fighting infuriating harpies and wolves for the bazillionth time.
Or, maybe a flight system... they have enough mythical creatures, maybe make it so later you can use a pegasus from town or something? It would be kind of like how they make "fast travel" for older final fantasy games, the tales games, or Golden Sun (airships, for those who don't know). That would make seeing the world from up above really fun, make you still feel immersed and like your traveling, and reduce random encounters. The trade off could be a little bit of safety too; arial travel could be made a little bit more dangerous than going by ground by including arial combat with gryphons, drakes, etc. More dangerous because obviously, you could get knocked off your mount if you're not careful.
In summary, I can see why a lack of fast travel upsets you, but I think this is a matter of personal preference; there *are* some enjoyable elements about lacking fast travel, but not everyone will think that they are worth it.

I actually agree with your second point; I wouldn't mind if stamina was unlimited for running, even in combat (though if they really wanted they could limit it in combat). Fact of the matter is, I have yet to run around enough in any combat for it to influence by stamina meter to a great degree; typically, the only time I'm running out of stamina is when I'm hammering on my snakebite skill to lay on the hurt, or using cutting wind a lot to stay mobile in a tough fight. Though, maybe that's why I haven't noticed a huge deal about stamina with running in combat... because I use cutting wind for the mobility xD. Anyway, I also don't see a need to force players to stop and walk when out traveling, and wouldn't have minded that change. The only reason I can see for running influencing stamina out in the wild is that if you've run too much, your stamina is unprepared for the next fight, but eventually you learn spawn and enemy locations and are never unprepared like that anyway (except in the beginning of the game, but still). But obviously this isn't a game breaker for me, and I can respect the designers for this specific choice despite my slight inconvenience.
Oh, to address the other points brought up in your second point... I don't think the characters move too slowly at all, it's just a big world so it can seem like that at times. And, the pause when out of stamina is also something that I like, because otherwise there is absolutely no penalty for not monitoring your energy; I've never understood games that don't have a penalty like this, because in real life you definitely need to pace yourself; not just talking about a real fight, but also sports and stuff. If you go "balls to the wall", then you're going to suffer if your opponent isn't down. In fact, I even think most RPGs should allow mages to cast beyond their mana, but only once, and have some sort of penalty after it happens. Many books you read about that have magic mention consequences like this, after all, where mages can over-exert themselves and get hurt or even die.

For your third point, I partially agree. First, with my disagreements; as someone mentioned, it seems like they tried to make enemies be placed in certain environments, so running into the same enemy in the same location actually makes sense to me. And, this rewards all the traveling you've done with a knowledge of how better to prepare for the area you're going to travel through, since you know what you'll likely encounter. Second, combat is a big part of the fun of this game, being very active and engaging, so I would HATE to see enemies go away for good once you've killed them... it would be quite sad, really. Where I do agree with you though is that it's kind of annoying fighting enemies that give you paltry experience, like those wolves in the beginning of the game, and harpies. There's no real point to fighting them, and I suppose I could run by them, but that would kind of break the immersion again. And they're no longer challenging either... but they are evasive, making fighting them still somewhat time-consuming. So, what I would have liked to see is some sort of scaling mechanic. Most RPGs that scale to your level tend to get it wrong though... (mostly because it sacrifices any sense of character progression and can make enemies unrealistic) so something more integrated into questline progression might be workable. That way, the designers could keep certain areas more challenging (which is another positive about this game, that some areas *are* more dangerous than others), while making the less dangerous areas less boring to fight and traverse through. Heck, they could even switch up which areas are more dangerous based on how far you've gotten in the story; though the story isn't good, it does still have potential world-changing elements that could reduce difficulty in certain areas while raising it in others.

Point four... another where I see your point, but no easy solution. I like that the pawns talk; it makes them feel more like *companions* and less like raggedy dolls that are being dragged around just to help you fight like in other RPGs (which is kind of ironic, since the companions based on story are FAR more like the personality-less characters of other games xD). However, the repetition of phrases IS irritating, and makes them go back to feeling like the raggedy, programmed dolls that they are... suffice to say, this one would be a hard solution. A tremendous amount of work would have to be made to give them enough unique dialogue to keep them talking throughout the game while avoiding repeated phrases. Maybe a little bit less chatter could help, but Idk.
I suppose programming them to only say certain phrases once (or three times) could help. Or an option to turn of pawn dialogue; after all, and option means that a player can choose whatever makes his or her personal playthrough more fun.

Point five, I like the inventory management. I hated that Dragon Age had shared inventory... and enjoy games that divide it. It just makes sense; if you're friend is carrying something, you obviously aren't. Dragon Quest kind of mitigates it by having both a shared and divided inventory, but that's only made possible because in Dragon Quest you have a cart for the shared inventory. Also, dividing the inventory *helps* management; you can then organize items based on who actually needs or uses them; hates sifting through all the swords and axes in Dragon Age to equip a new staff for my mage... Main point being, a shared inventory is *not* necessarily more convenient or pleasing to everyone, so that solution is not a "perfect" one.
As for shortcuts... those have always been a problem for console games, and why RTS games and others of their ilk are all but impossible to make on console. Dragon's Dogma's controller is already fully mapped with relevant button-presses, and I couldn't see any of them being replace. Maybe clicking the right stick could bring up a radial...? I think that's the only thing I don't use consistently. I suppose Left Trigger's current use (sheathing and unsheathing) isn't vital either, but I find myself using it a lot... lol.

The story; you're right, it sucks. However, I've come to realize that I don't mind it if games lack a story anymore. There have been games I've played that had great stories, but I couldn't stand to finish them because I hated the gameplay. Then there's games like this and Borderlands that have "meh" for a story... and I love them. I've come to realize that, in the end, a game is about having fun, and while it's nice to have a good story, I don't find it necessary for me to enjoy a game; if you want a good story, go read a book. If you look at the legacy of games, however, earlier ones didn't even pretend to offer story, or even pretend to make sense. Mario; a plumber in the middle ages that lives in a kingdom of mushroom people that have a human princes that gets kidnapped by a dinosaur-turtle that somehow has seven children that... you get the idea. But that didn't stop players from having fun playing the game, stomping on little brown things called "goombas" and kicking turtle shells at fire-spewing plants.
Again, not to say I don't like story in video games, just that if the gameplay is fun enough, I'm more than willing to forgive a lacking story.


Anyway, that's my response to your criticisms. I don't expect you to agree, because in the end most of this stuff is personal preference. And, to give some credit to your rant, this means that you did like quite a bit of this game and wanted to like it, and so I'm sorry that certain elements ruined it for you. It was the same way with me and Dragon Age II... so I can understand where you're coming from. I wanted to like the game so bad, but certain design choices made it a game that wasn't fun to me, like the fact that 10% of the game is good story, and the rest is fetch-quests... yeah, this sounds contradictory to my previous statement, but Dragon Age *is* a game that I played for its excellent narrative and world-crafting, and few ever like meaningless side-quests that start to feel super repetitive. I guess all there is to do now is for each of us to just go and enjoy playing the games that we do like :).