DRM X1 - What are you going to do about it?

[Bat Vader]

I am not going to buy an X-Box One. I know that a lot of people will still buy one and that in comparison the money they won't get from me isn't that big of a deal. I can still pride in the fact that I am not spending money on something I disagree with.

 

[PFCboom]

I'm going to buy it and enjoy it. (snip)

I see you're getting some crap for having that opinion. I just wanted to say that you're not wrong for wanting to buy one. You're an adult, you can do whatever you want with your money. More power to ya.

ANYWAY

I'm not buying it, and I think I'm going to encourage my friends not to, either. We're really big on sharing certain games. "Hey, can I get Black Ops off ya for a weekend?" All the time. Not gonna happen, now.
See, we get paid decently well, but we're all keenly aware of the value of a dollar. I can drop $60 for my own copy of Battlefield, or I can fill up my car and borrow the game from someone next week. Modern Warfare 4, or groceries? Madden, or a new multi-tool? Not too long ago, I didn't have to ask this question, because I'd borrow games from the guy three rooms down. Now I can't, so I must.

Also, I'm thinking of the far, possible future. One day, I'll be deployed again, where the Internet - if we even HAVE Internet - will be weak and not too reliable. Now, when I was in Afghanistan, even when the connection was steady, though weak, Steam still refused to connect some 75% of the time. I can't help wondering if the Xbone will have the same issue.

I'm ranting a tiny bit, aren't I? Okay, I'll stop now.

 

[Robot Number V]

I think this'll be easier if I respond to each bullet point separately.

"You do not own the games you buy. You license them.
Discs are only used to install and then license games and do not imply ownership.

Not really sure how to respond to this one, since the exact difference between ownership and "licensing" isn't exactly clear. As long as Microsoft doesn't start taking my games away on a whim, they can call it whatever they want.

People can play games installed on your console whether you're logged in or not.

Well. Uh. That's good. I guess. Unless I'm not understanding this one, it seems pretty irrelevant.

10 people can be authorised to play these games on a different Xbox One via the cloud, but not at the same time, similar to iTunes authorised devices.

At first I thought this was a good idea, then I got to the "not at the same time" part. Well if you can't play the same game at the same time, then what's the point? If If someone else is going to be playing my games then I'll just give them the fucking disc.

Publishers decide whether you can trade in your games and may charge for this.
Publishers decide whether you can give a game you own to someone for free, and this only works if they have been on your friends list for 30 days.

OK, I guess this is where that whole "licensing" thing comes into play. Yeah, this definitely bullshit. Once I buy the fucking game I should have every right to do whatever the fuck I want with it.

Your account allows you to play the games you license on any console.

OK. That might come in handy....I guess.....Maybe. It's not a BAD thing, anyway.

Your Xbox One must connect to the internet every 24 hours to keep playing games.

Pretty shitty policy right there, even if probably wont' personally effect me. Unless I move into a new place, I guess.

When playing on another Xbox One with your account, this is reduced to one hour.

Again, pretty dumb, but the circumstances needed for this to be relevant are pretty unlikely. Still, it would it be nice if it weren't an issue at all.

Live TV, Blu-ray and DVD movies are exempt from these internet requirements.

Yeah, this isn't really a selling point. It something that I would ASSUME. Well, unless I'd read all the bullshit up there.^^^

Loaning and renting games will not be possible at launch, but Microsoft is "exploring the possibilities".

Again, not really sure what this means. Still, kinda shitty they're making things like this more complicated then they have any right to be.

Microsoft may change these policies or discontinue them at any point."

And there' the kicker. I already know that I won't be buying any new consoles for at least....Let's say 18 months after launch. Obviously Microsoft is already pretty nervous by now, and if the console really does flop, I'm sure they'll start changing and discontinuing. Well, I HOPE so anyway. I guess I'll see how the console is looking a year and half down the road, and make my judgement then.

 

[Cecilo]

Snip.

The only real difference being that you have to pay four hundred dollars to have your rights ripped away from you instead of it being completely free, PLUS However much money a month to use their internet, instead of nothing to access their servers, PLUS paying for the games themselves.

Also I seriously doubt Microsoft is going to give you up to 90% Off sales like Steam. Steam doesn't kick you off and tell you "No go away you cant access the internet all your games are null". And OH RIGHT, I don't have a giant "I am spying on you" Machine that is attached to steam.

 

[ryessknight]

Its xbone. X1s to good a name for this piece of shit system. I liked the first xbox and the 360 alot but i refuse to buy the xbone. I liked all the other systems to. Every time i see or hear about the xbone though it just makes me mad and sick.
I love gaming, it keeps me sane and helps me fight my depression. This console makes me feel like microsoft is stabbing me in the back with every word. Licensing games? wtf micro. Cloud shit, give me a break , cloud gaming is inferior and laggy. Tv,Tv,Tv, so what? I got netflix and cable for that and im not gonna pay them extra for the "privilage " to use my hard bought games and my already paying for cable and netflix. Always on net? (fuck there 1 day shit, its still always on in a way). I have good broadband net but still thats total horseshit for people who dont but still liked and bought a 360. Kinect madatory? wtf seriously. I refused to buy a first gen one. I think its a gimicky useless add on and even if i wanted one for some reason, i couldnt even use the stupid thing in my small apt. I can barely get my wii to work here. The vocal command shit? Just seems to easy for someone to just fuck with you and turn off your system whenever or even on accident, maybe the xbone has a way to prevent that but micros being so vaque and dodgey about it that we still have no real answers on that. So fuck xbone. The only thing i slightly regret is that ill miss the new fable and halo but i doubt either will be any good really in hindsight since the people who made em intresting (peter M and bungie) arent working on em. I do want a wii u though and im looking forward to the ps4. Im still alittle leary on ps4 though but sofar sony seems to be learning from the mistakes of the ps3, and i liked the ps3. Microsoft lost me as a customer this gen. Hell ive bought atleast 4 360s for one reason or another last gen just cause i liked the games and controler dispite the problems. ( one rod'd , got it refurbished then it died again, bought another one but it was the shitty arcade version, got the third so i could have a bigger hd drive and then got the fourth ,which i still have, when the thirds hd drive was still 2 small for my needs)but again i refuse competely to buy a xbone ever.

 

[FreakofNatur]

One solution, that is not the buy the thing. Ever since I saw the release and PR talk, I knew it was boned. This has been a large cross on my list since then.

They are making very very bad decisions and publicizing them is making it even worse Microsoft has always been the "big bad" and this isn't helping. It's just too america-centric.

 

[ironpatriot]

Steam already killed game ownership.
More free than steam.
Better than steam.

The xbone is a better system then Steam is currently and yet you have so many people bitching and moaning.

Man! You must really hate Steam. But anyway...

I think there is a point you may have missed. Microsoft is making all these restrictions a requirement of owning their console. Steam isn't required if you own a PC. It's an option. Sure, you need Steam to play certain games. If you don't own any of Steam-only games, it doesn't matter at all.

Steam, I would argue, is far superior. With Steam, I can be in "offline mode" for up to 90 days before I have to connect to the internet again. This is in comparison to Microsoft's MEAGER 24 hours. And... (this is going to require a new paragraph...)

In general, it seems Microsoft is intentionally alienating the lower-class. The cost of a new system is the biggest hurdle low-income people (like me) have for console gaming. Once the console is purchased, games come cheaply. You can buy a game used, and it will be anywhere from 10% to 90% off the retail price. You can also rent games. You can also borrow them. Not with the Xbone! I'm forced to buy games new, or forced to pay an additional fee for a used game... Well, that is much harder for me to own a console, isn't it?!

The other barrier is broadband internet. I pay $50 a month for DSL that is horrible. It is so slow that I can cannot stream low-quality video without pausing and allowing it to buffer every few minutes. If I had an Xbone it would take up too much bandwidth. I'd have to use only my PC or Xbox at one time. Even then, I would need to pull the plug on the Xbone whenever I want to use the PC. For me, always-on devices and auto-updating features are a nightmare! I don't even know how much longer I will have internet access. I haven't paid my ISP since I lost my 2nd job.

Once I do get some money together, I definitely won't buy an always-on console. I want to get a PS4, but I'm going to wait. (well after release) I want to see if they have any major problems. Although, chances are good that I'll build myself a new PC. I have enough parts that it will only be $300-$400 to build a good PC. It's performance should be comparable to a X1 or PS4. (Although it sounds like the PS4 will be mindbogglingly fast.)

By the way...

TO ALL PEOPLE THAT SAY, "STEAM DOESN'T ALLOWING TRADING."

Guess, what? They do.
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6748-ETSG-5417

It's a recent feature, but I'm surprised so few people know about it.

 

[Siege_TF]

I'm going to buy it and enjoy it. The licensing terms seem reasonable enough for me, and they won't change my gaming habits very much.

Tell another!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M

Seriously though I'm not buying this damn thing. I've been playing since second generation and have never had 'brand loyalty'. I haven't touched a Nintendo console since the N64 made me sick, and this system does almost the same thing... except it was the N64's graphics that made me physically sick.

 

[Mr F.]

Steam already killed game ownership.
More free than steam.
Better than steam.

The xbone is a better system then Steam is currently and yet you have so many people bitching and moaning.

Man! You must really hate Steam. But anyway...

I love steam. The amount of games I have, hours I have logged, all of that is incredible. I just HAAAATE Hypocrisy.

I think there is a point you may have missed. Microsoft is making all these restrictions a requirement of owning their console. Steam isn't required if you own a PC. It's an option. Sure, you need Steam to play certain games. If you don't own any of Steam-only games, it doesn't matter at all.

Yet owning their console is not a requirement. One can do without and still live a fulfilling life. The two are comparable, both are things you play games on/with (Talking steam and an Xbone.), to play PC games you need a PC, to play Xbone games you need an Xbone.

Steam, I would argue, is far superior. With Steam, I can be in "offline mode" for up to 90 days before I have to connect to the internet again. This is in comparison to Microsoft's MEAGER 24 hours. And... (this is going to require a new paragraph...)

In general, it seems Microsoft is intentionally alienating the lower-class. The cost of a new system is the biggest hurdle low-income people (like me) have for console gaming. Once the console is purchased, games come cheaply. You can buy a game used, and it will be anywhere from 10% to 90% off the retail price. You can also rent games. You can also borrow them. Not with the Xbone! I'm forced to buy games new, or forced to pay an additional fee for a used game... Well, that is much harder for me to own a console, isn't it?!

Well... Yes. Because, considering the Xbox was sold at a loss, you cost Microsoft money. That is why they are encouraging people to buy new. I know it is shitty for you, and I feel bad to admit it, but that is exactly why microsoft is putting this shit in. To fuck gamers like you.

The other barrier is broadband internet. I pay $50 a month for DSL that is horrible. It is so slow that I can cannot stream low-quality video without pausing and allowing it to buffer every few minutes. If I had an Xbone it would take up too much bandwidth. I'd have to use only my PC or Xbox at one time. Even then, I would need to pull the plug on the Xbone whenever I want to use the PC. For me, always-on devices and auto-updating features are a nightmare! I don't even know how much longer I will have internet access. I haven't paid my ISP since I lost my 2nd job.

I hate to bang on about steam (It is such a good comparison) but I have used it with shitty internet. And you know what? Waiting 3 - 4 days for a game to finish downloading is hell. Being unable to play games because they have started updating is hell. Having steam lock you out randomly is hell.

I guess what I am trying to say is my argument was more that Steam and the Xbone are comparably bad but people do not rag on about how evil steam is (The only thing I really think is shitty is having to pay for Xbox Gold or whatever it is called to game online). In your specific case Microsoft is seeming to come across as anti-consumer.

But considering that was part of their aim...

Once I do get some money together, I definitely won't buy an always-on console. I want to get a PS4, but I'm going to wait. (well after release) I want to see if they have any major problems. Although, chances are good that I'll build myself a new PC. I have enough parts that it will only be $300-$400 to build a good PC. It's performance should be comparable to a X1 or PS4. (Although it sounds like the PS4 will be mindbogglingly fast.)

By the way...

TO ALL PEOPLE THAT SAY, "STEAM DOESN'T ALLOWING TRADING."

Guess, what? They do.
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6748-ETSG-5417

It's a recent feature, but I'm surprised so few people know about it.

*sigh* No. You. Cannot.

Sure, I can trade games I bought as gifts through steam! How nice of them! That is not trading PREOWNED games, that is saying "Steam is nice because if you buy something but press gift instead of "I am purchasing this for myself" you can send it to someone. Its random game items and yet more DOTA 2 keys that you can trade.

‌What items can be traded?

Currently, Steam gifts/games, Team Fortress 2 items, Spiral Knights items and Portal 2 items can all be traded.

Now I am offski to get breakfast.

Snip.

The only real difference being that you have to pay four hundred dollars to have your rights ripped away from you instead of it being completely free, PLUS However much money a month to use their internet, instead of nothing to access their servers, PLUS paying for the games themselves.

Also I seriously doubt Microsoft is going to give you up to 90% Off sales like Steam. Steam doesn't kick you off and tell you "No go away you cant access the internet all your games are null". And OH RIGHT, I don't have a giant "I am spying on you" Machine that is attached to steam.

I referenced that I am not behind having to pay for gold membership.

However, everything else:
- You have to buy the PC to use steam on. The Xbone is probably going to be like the xbox and sold at a loss. Its still a personal choice to buy it or not.
- *sigh* If you are behind steam, you cannot launch any complaints against the Xbone, bar stating it is shitty to have to pay for gold! When the steambox gets released it wont be free and you will still have to buy games!
- "I seriously doubt" is not an argument.
- Try using steam in the UAE. Try using steam with a shitty connection. Most of the summer I could not get access to Steam, despite occasionally having shitty internet, because it doesn't work when bouncing off a 3G network. Go go.
- If you are using a laptop, you have a webcam that can be remotely access staring at you right now. If not, You can ALWAYS JUST UNPLUG THE BLOODY THING (Like lots of people do to save power.) or stick a piece of cardboard over the sensor when not in use.

HOLY HELL I fucked up the formatting. But I think its still legible, the bits I wrote. Would fix but I have to go buy breakfast (And be at the docs in under 30 mins) so... Sorry.

 

[Doclector]

Talk with my wallet. Unless all of this shit changes, I ain't even thinking of getting an xbone.

If the PS4 looks promising, I may well jump to that.

 

[JetFury]

I won't buy the Xbox or the ps4 if Sony follows Microsoft down below the heel of the publisher. I'll contribute to the fight waged against the consumer

 

[Roxor]

I'm going to hope someone hits Microsoft's servers with a denial of service attack.

Microsoft already fields DDoS attacks on a regular basis.

In that case, it's probably too much to hope that someone can knock the DRM servers offline.

 

[9thRequiem]

Gamers are getting mad.
With Microsofts digital rights managed getting clearer, it's also becoming more transparent just how corporate-minded the gaming industry is becoming. Some may say that's inevitable or that it's the POINT OF A BUSINESS, but Microsoft is asking gamers to sacrifice a lot more than they are about to gain with this new console.
If you've missed out on a lot of this, I found this article which I thought for the most part outlined this all nicely (though the title tells you instantly this isn't quite dispassionate) http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-07-microsoft-kills-game-ownership-and-expects-us-to-smile)

I've copy-pasted their bullet points below:
"You do not own the games you buy. You license them.
Discs are only used to install and then license games and do not imply ownership.
People can play games installed on your console whether you're logged in or not.
10 people can be authorised to play these games on a different Xbox One via the cloud, but not at the same time, similar to iTunes authorised devices.
Publishers decide whether you can trade in your games and may charge for this.
Publishers decide whether you can give a game you own to someone for free, and this only works if they have been on your friends list for 30 days.
Your account allows you to play the games you license on any console.
Your Xbox One must connect to the internet every 24 hours to keep playing games.
When playing on another Xbox One with your account, this is reduced to one hour.
Live TV, Blu-ray and DVD movies are exempt from these internet requirements.
Loaning and renting games will not be possible at launch, but Microsoft is "exploring the possibilities".
Microsoft may change these policies or discontinue them at any point."

So I'm interested, I want to see the temperature of the community, what are you going to do about this? Are you going to speak with your wallet and/or jump to PS3? Are you going to write to Microsoft? Pressure pundits? Start your own website? Picket E3? Or accept that this has already happened with Steam and iTunes, and Sony and Nintendo will eventually do it anyway, so sit back, relax, there's little we can do anyway.

I'm really excited. I'm buying One for definite.
I don't care at all about needing to be online once every 24 hours or for not having used games. I just love the fact that I'll no longer need to juggle discs.

I would like to know what the "Family" thing covers wrt other Xbox Ones; How closely would they regard "Family" - Same address? Or would it be like Amazon Prime's Family thing, which is fully open to lies about relations.
If I claimed a friend was my "Brother" would he be able to play my games as long as I wasn't playing the same one at the same time?

 

[UnnDunn]

I'm going to buy it and enjoy it. (snip)

I see you're getting some crap for having that opinion. I just wanted to say that you're not wrong for wanting to buy one. You're an adult, you can do whatever you want with your money. More power to ya.

Thank you.

 

[evenest]

"The only way to win is not to play."

I am not going to buy the next Microsoft console. It is as simple as that. If Sony goes down that path as well, it won't get my money either.

I would rather invest in a decent PC, and, if I really have to scratch that console itch there is always the Wii U; Nintendo might be smart enough to try to woo those who are disheartened by the turn Microsoft is taking and Sony might be taking.

 

[AuronFtw]

The xbone is a better system then Steam is currently and yet you have so many people bitching and moaning.

I was actually going to reply to your whole post but you made it easier by including this line.

Your argument has one massive, glaring flaw that completely undermines everything you said in that post. Steam has competition. The Xbone does not, and will not. Xbone will exist in its own bubble, and doesn't have to compete with other distributors or developers on the same platform. Steam's policy's being a bit dickish, or individual rules for individual scenarios taken out of context hardly matter when you consider that Steam has to work to stay relevant in a competitive market. They have to appeal to the customer, instead of lording over the customer.

If steam dicks people over, or overcharges for a service or a game, you know what people will do? They'll... buy games from amazon, gog, greenmangaming, etc. They'll use other services, all readily available to PC users. If (when*) Microsoft dicks people over or overcharges for a service or game, what option do you have? NOTHING. You're on the xbone. The only options you have are the ones Microsoft deemed to give you; Microsoft is the one holding all the power. Once you shell out the cash to buy the box, and the cash for XBL, and the cash for any games, Microsoft can still dick you over and leave you with zero options. Even getting banned from Steam and losing your entire Steam library doesn't cause your whole PC to essentially brick and become useless.

In addition to the lack of competition, your argument hinges on Microsoft being friendly to gamers and making decisions/deals to benefit them. I uh... I hate to break it to you, but this is Microsoft. They have a history of doing exactly the opposite. In fact, they have built an entire console around dicking over players with every feature - and leaving the players no other options. I really hate to see people hoping and praying that Microsoft will be kind to them after they learn specifics about all the bullshit Microsoft has done to strip them of their rights as a gamer and as a consumer.

Valve has fanbois because they have a history of good work and great PR. At worst, their mistakes have been blunders, and there haven't been very many of those. At Microsoft's worst, they're actively trying to steal as much of your money as they can and dick you over in the process.

So... no. The Xbone is NOT a "better" system than steam for one crucial reason: steam has competition. It does not exist in a bubble, unconnected to other services or distributors on the same platform. All their decisions have to be made with that in mind - which, in the end, leads to their decisions being far better for the consumer than anything Microsoft has done, or will do, on the Xbone.