Duke Nukem Forever Is a Good Game

Pedro The Hutt

New member
Apr 1, 2009
980
0
0
EzraPound said:
Dude, I've read Jim Sterling's arguments--he doesn't get it, and nor is he what I'd describe as a penetratingly deep thinker when it comes to the subject of video games. Frankly, his rants about Duke Nukem's allegedly portrayed 'coolness' have been borderline nauseating--does he really think that 3D Realms' message is that it's cool to commit violence against women, ingest profuse amounts of steroids, live in a sleazy casino, have strippers for companions, and generally luxuriate in your own insular cult of personality?
Oh he gets it perfectly, Duke Nukem is not comedy, as we tend to have to say to people here in Europe, just because you're quoting Monty Python doesn't mean you're a funny guy. Just like how in Disaster Movie, Scary Movie or any other offspring of that accursed franchise, it's not comedy just because you're re-enacting scenes from another film in your film. Besides, you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot if you make fun of franchises (Halo, Half-Life) you're shamelessly copying from (two weapons and barrel physics puzzles respectively). Even moreso if you directly contradict what your character used to be (Duke saying armour's for pussies when he happily used it himself), or even contradict the message you're trying to convey (Duke being a badass while being a ~coward~ refuels his ego). From the level design to the graphics to its very internal logic (or lack thereof), DNF is an incoherent, inconsistent mess. If you can't notice that then you're truly an expert at deluding yourself.

And yes, yes, Gearbox and 3D Realms do think it's cool to be Duke. Behind the scenes footage has shown the developers at Gearbox sniggering like Beavis and Butthead at their own game and acting like this is the coolest game they've ever seen, voicing that Duke Nukem is the coolest guy on the block, the ultimate badass. Heck, even Gearbox' CEO Randy Pitchford [http://www.gamefront.com/gearboxs-randy-pitchford-reviewers-who-dont-like-duke-nukem-forever-will-be-held-accountable/] has repeatedly gone on record [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110967-Gearbox-Duke-Nukem-is-Not-a-Chris-Brown-Kind-of-Character] defending Duke's character as a cool badass, even going as far as to say that his fictional idol would kick the asses of any critics he has. They are a complete and fully integrated part of Duke's insular cult of personality. So yes, for all I care, Randy Pitchford fully condones violence against women if it is a means to establish yourself as ~the~ alpha male until a day dawns where he'll admit that Duke really is kind of a douche that no one should think of as a good guy with plenty of redeeming qualities.
 

Nieroshai

New member
Aug 20, 2009
2,940
0
0
I like this review. I'd be playing it right now but my Steam account is malfunctioning.
 

9thRequiem

New member
Sep 21, 2010
447
0
0
Wouldn't say it's a good game per se. Mainly because the controls and mechanics didn't always fit together all that well.

But I did have a lot of fun playing it. For all else anyone has to say about it, I had a good time.

As for the "Duke" persona : I've found I like it a lot more if I pretend that the whole thing is actually taking place inside someone's mind, with them using the Duke fantasy to get by with their real life problems of bullying and talking to women.
 

Thunderhorse31

New member
Apr 22, 2009
1,818
0
0
Pedro The Hutt said:
So yes, for all I care, Randy Pitchford fully condones violence against women if it is a means to establish yourself as ~the~ alpha male until a day dawns where he'll admit that Duke really is kind of a douche that no one should think of as a good guy with plenty of redeeming qualities.
Maybe, just maybe, Randy is trying to market a game and talk up its main character, and doesn't feel the need to explain every ounce of subtext at all times. Maybe he realizes that the people who are going to be playing the game are smart enough to know that this is not behavior to be emulated.

Then again, maybe everything in this video is 100% true too.

<youtube=3WmhZiYKlBs>
 

Pedro The Hutt

New member
Apr 1, 2009
980
0
0
Thunderhorse31 said:
Pedro The Hutt said:
So yes, for all I care, Randy Pitchford fully condones violence against women if it is a means to establish yourself as ~the~ alpha male until a day dawns where he'll admit that Duke really is kind of a douche that no one should think of as a good guy with plenty of redeeming qualities.
Maybe, just maybe, Randy is trying to market a game and talk up its main character, and doesn't feel the need to explain every ounce of subtext at all times. Maybe he realizes that the people who are going to be playing the game are smart enough to know that this is not behavior to be emulated.

Then again, maybe everything in this video is 100% true too.

-snip-
I always figured that was shot inside IGN's own offices with a staff member parodying Mr. Pitchford rather than that being Randy Pitchford himself. (As I sincerely doubt Gearbox would decorate their offices with Mario stuff)

But hey~ I could be wrong.
 

Zyntoxic

New member
May 9, 2011
215
0
0
I just want to say: Great Review! you pinpointed many things I too had thought about the game, and more.

I know how to take a joke, and DNF was exactly what I expected when I bought it, silly, immature, and manily, a parody, I don't understand how so many seems to miss this, even thought the game practically screams it in to your face.

anw, as I said, great review ^_^
 

Von Strimmer

New member
Apr 17, 2011
375
0
0
Fantastic review. You know what is really shitting me though? people complaining about how Duke treats women. Honest to God people if you had not picked up by now that Duke Nukem was an arse to women then you are a complete idiot. Seriously every demo, every review and every goddamn trailer has depicted the Duke as a dick. You knew thats what it would be like and people that are bashing Duke for his womanising ways knew full well of this and they only bring it up to make themselves feel good and lord themselves over everyone who had a chuckle.

To sum up good people. If you have a go at the game for how it treats women... Grow the fuck up.

Also (and I said this in an earlier thread) a game that provokes this much contraversy over content rather than mechanics and gameplay? Why it sure sounds like art to me.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
13,769
5
43
First and foremost, saying that Duke Nukem Forever game is 15 hours is misinformation, pure and simple. I finished it in 8 hours. On normal. Not speed-running. With numerous deaths. While poking around a fair bit - not there was much to find. Although it's probably for the best. I don't think I could have coped with the game lasting 15 hours.

Satire? You're giving the game way too much credit. Duke Nukem Forever is "satire" in the same way as Scary Movie and Meet the Spartans and about as clever. It slavishly imitates that which it is supposedly satirizing, sprinkles some pop culture references around, then points at itself and says, "Satire, lol."

And humour? DNF's idea of a joke is having a soldier named Leeroy Jenkins run ahead and get killed. Or having a man in a TV studio repeat Christian Bale's rant. Ha. Ha. My aching sides.

As for gameplay... well, I would have been content with, or at least not pissed off by, either a old-school-run-and-gun or a modern cover based shooter. Instead I got an ugly mash-up of both. Combat was a repetitive and mechanical affair that had me operating on autopilot within the hour. There were occasional moments of cleverness that managed to jerk me out of my boredom-induced torpor, the burger kitchen and the monster truck come to mind. But those were few and far between.

In short, the game was a wretched piece of crap that deserves every bit of the thorough critical paddling that it is currently receiving. I bought the game purely out of curiosity, fully prepared for it to be sub-par, given its troubled development. But even I was unprepared for the pile of putrid garbage that I was presented with.

But don't worry. I'm sure it will still sell millions of copies.
 

Artina89

New member
Oct 27, 2008
3,624
0
0
I haven't played the game, but my brother has and he has said that he has had a hell of a lot of fun with it, which is what he was looking for at the end of the day. The thing is, you usually know what to expect with a game like Duke Nukem forever. I just think that people would have thought it would have been better since it has spent 12-13 years in development, and were sorely dissappointed that it wasn't.
 

Nimzabaat

New member
Feb 1, 2010
886
0
0
I've found that gaming critics are becoming more and more like movie critics. Basically they have a high opinion of themselves, but are no longer relevant to actual consumers. I found it pretty funny that when someone from the Escapist reviewed DNF. His review was followed by pages and pages of actual gamers where 9 out of 10 seemed to think he shouldn't review games anymore period. In fact some of the reporting that the Escapist has done on DNF falls into the "libel" category. The Escapist reported that poor sales for LA Noire (top 5 last time I looked) and DNF may cause an investor panic. LA Noire is a niche game that's doing pretty damn good for being a niche game and DNF is in the top ten for sales as well (though in the 10th spot).

My personal opinion on DNF is that
1) I get the joke and it is funny
2) Some of the parts taken out of the Duke Nukem 3D are indeed disturbing when seen with real graphics
3) I agree that only carrying two weapons is a bad idea
4) Anyone with half a brain will realize that it hasn't been in continuous development for 15 years. The critics, who are supposed to understand the industry, apparently don't get that.

So I mostly agree with the above review, however i'd give DNF a 6/10. It's not awful, it's not spectacular.

PS: The real tragedy here is that Alice came out and has gone largely unnoticed. Alice is a 10 by the way.
 

Thunderhorse31

New member
Apr 22, 2009
1,818
0
0
Pedro The Hutt said:
I always figured that was shot inside IGN's own offices with a staff member parodying Mr. Pitchford rather than that being Randy Pitchford himself. (As I sincerely doubt Gearbox would decorate their offices with Mario stuff)

But hey~ I could be wrong.
Nah, that's definitely a parody, but notice how you are aware of that? And you didn't take it too seriously? And no one needed to explain to you that CEOs shouldn't slap women or stab people in the head? ;)
 

XMark

New member
Jan 25, 2010
1,408
0
0
Even if Duke Nukem is a satire, the satirical elements need to stand up on their own merits or it fails. It's the difference between Spaceballs and Epic Movie.
 

CommanderKirov

New member
Oct 3, 2010
762
0
0
I'm sorry. But your text on exploration in the new duke makes me assume you did not play the DN3D.

The new duke is a simplistic shooter without much excitement of the old FPS's even though it boasted return to good old days. The maps are linear, the good bits are scarce some areas seem to be half-finished, one liners tend to repeat themselves, driving mechanics are awful, guns are satysfying but shooting things with them have the same gravity of throwing a tomato on a cardboard cutout.


I imagined that ego boosts were ment to be a lure to explore more. But with them working only once for each unique item it renders the whole idea pointless. Besides exploration does not mean "Step in the single room next to you, find a thing x and exit because it's empty otherwise"

Why in the world did people get the idea in their heads that DN3D was a simplistic stand and shoot game like Serious Sam? It was quite fucking complex, the levels were huge and sprawling with different kinds of enemies and the crude humor was mainly derived out of easter eggs scattered around the big map. This game just makes you go in one direction and just shoves the things in your face yelling "DO YOU SEE THIS? ALSO THIS IS A JOKE NOW LAUGH!".


This is not the Duke i was waiting for.


PS: Just a comparison between maps between old times and nowdays.

 

Asuka Soryu

New member
Jun 11, 2010
2,437
0
0
I think any part of me that was planning on getting this game was lost when Video Games Awesome couldn't even finish it and was totaly dissapointed by the game. That really shocked me, to see them not enjoying a game.

I'll pick it up once it's in the 20$ game bin so I can test it out myself, but right now, I'm not willing to spend 60$ on a game I can't fully believe I'll enjoy.
 

Pedro The Hutt

New member
Apr 1, 2009
980
0
0
Shocking, isn't it? They're usually so excitable about games that it's quite stunning to see them ~not~ having fun.
 

mikev7.0

New member
Jan 25, 2011
598
0
0
EzraPound said:
Time Out of Mind

"Duke Nukem Forever"

It seems to me, based on reading a lot of the commentary on Duke Nukem Forever here on the forums, that many of those critical of the game have dismissed it on the basis of a) its two-weapon limit and recharging 'ego' shield, and b) its low metascores. This is, suffice to say, fairly ridiculous, allotting as it does far too much credibility both to the meaningfulness of variable game features and the competency of the average game critic.

. . .So allow me to weigh in, as someone whose beaten the game. First off, it's funny. I say this without self-consciousness, since what's essential to understanding the humour here is being clued to the fact that Duke--far from being the irreverent philanderer whose cult of personality has entranced even his own designers prescribed by Jim Sterling--is actually more of a postmodernist, This Is Spinal Tap-style joke; something most critics hilariously (not to mention characteristically) ignored in their heady game of one-upmanship to determine who could most obnoxiously trumpet the fact they were above such bawdy humour.

What's ironic about this is--like the aforementioned Spinal Tap--Duke's bloated persona has an air of plausibility about it within its own medium that enriches the satire. I mean, is destroying a twenty-foot alien baddie who fires rockets from his face whilst coolly making zingers that much more ridiculous than what you're likely to see in most action games? Or the kind of brusquely machismo films this franchise was based on? The DN franchise has, since 3D, been fundamentally about parodying the content and form of both first-person shooters and the action films they were based on--illustrating how absurd they are as a form of cultural expression, as it were . DN3D, for what it's worth, did this by imposing a narrative onto what was, for most intents and purposes, a DOOM-style shoot 'em up: something that worked because its creators correctly understood that the only consistent narrative rationale for these sorts of behaviours was a kind of psychopathy, which they parlayed additionally into the realm of sex. In press releases, Randy Pitchford often took to describing Duke as "egocentric": a label which can be considered the direct result of DN3D and DNF's narratives being structured around the gameplay experience, rather than the other way around--Duke is a hedonist because the player, unbound by the consequences of real-life moral logic, is also a hedonist.

Evidence of such satire abounds. Where Arnold Schwarzenegger might have appeared unnaturally muscly in a film in the 1990s, for example, Duke simply ingests steroids--something Arnold has, in retrospect, admitted to--boisterously killing enemies whilst commenting about the unleashing of his "'Roid Rage" (and, in another gameplay sequence, telling a young boy to take his "pills" to become strong before backpedaling--"I mean vitamins"). Where disposable female love interests often appear in both action films (and games), Duke makes no bones about what he wants, and within the first five minutes of the game is depicted receiving fellatio from the blonde "Holsom Twins." Later in the game, when their lives are imperiled due to being captured--and impregnated--by aliens, Duke's described psycopathy reaches morally dissonant heights, as they cry out for help (promising to "get the weight off" to Duke), and Duke's response is impassive: "Looks like you're. . . fucked." If this sequence makes you uncomfortable, it's because it's supposed to: while Duke can stop to pose in the mirror in DNF, it's often just as easy to imagine him holding up a mirror to our own culture.

I've devoted this much energy to describing the game's satirical approach because it's important; but rest assured, the gameplay isn't bad either. Above all, what's pleasant about it is its variance (and length--this game is a healthy fifteen hours, provided you explore): over the course of the game, you'll navigate through a fast-food restaurant whilst shrunk, barrel through the Nevadan desert in a monster truck, fight a giant octopus underwater, treat yourself to an assortment of mini-games, solve physics puzzles strongly reminiscent of Half-Life 2, and--of course--kill aliens. The quality of these sections varies--fortunately, most of the tedious ones don't last too long--but when they work, like in the Duke Burger--in which you're crouching behind canned goods and jumping on hamburger buns in order to not let your feet touch a deep-fryer--they're among the most inventive I've played in a first-person shooter, and recall the glory days of the Build Engine.

Claims to the game's CoD or Halo-ization, I should add, are overstated. There's lots of things that echo DN3D here: weapons that recur, obviously--the shrink and freeze rays among them--bosses with tidily displayed health bars, aspects of the visual design, etc. But what most tellingly connects DNF to its antecedent is the game's high level of interactivity, which the designers have obviously taken pains to both program and showcase (indeed, the centrality of environmental interaction to DNF is made obvious when the game begins in a washroom which features roughly ten things--taps, toilets, showers, etc.--you can simply screw around with). Not only that, but unlike DN3D, exploration in DNF actually serves a functive purpose: gaining a high score in the pinball machines scattered unassumingly throughout the game world, for example, enlarges your 'ego' bar--basically, your regenerating health.

About that. Yes, DNF has regenerating health. But you know what? It works exactly as it ought to; preventing needless backtracking whilst encouraging the kind of frequent, high-tension firefights the game's fans inevitably expected. In a way, regenerating health allows the game to be more challenging (and DNF is challenging, at least by modern standards), because its designers aren't left guessing at the player's remaining health, meaning significantly difficult sections aren't watered down due to the burden of these calculations. The same, unfortunately, can't be said of the game's two-weapon limit, which should have been either expanded or scrapped altogether in favour of allowing the player greater freedom to experiment with the impressive spectrum of weaponry the game features.

The multi-player is, in contrast to the single-player, only okay. It's reminiscent of the simplistic multi-player features included in the shooters of yesteryear--which, made as they were before blockbuster multi-player shooters in the 2000s really mainlined the genre, can seem quaint by today's standards, if insanely fun at times. Nearly as much entertainment, I would venture, should be derived from the games 'Extras' menu--unlocked after you beat the game--which includes, among other things, promo videos released throughout the game's storied development (and it's surprising to see how many designs appear to have been retained from the nineties), a handful of cheats, and--oddly--a Duke Nukem soundboard. The cheats, in particular--which allow invincibility, infinite ammo, enlarged AI & NPC heads, etc.--are good fun, and make me wonder why more developers today don't do this sort of thing.

Of course, there are legitimate gripes. The graphics on PS3 are subpar--some parts look great, while others--such as the blurry textures that often load at a slower pace than Duke progresses--are less than satisfactory, and make you wish more time had been invested in prepping the console version. The loading times, too, are a tad arduous--something particularly frustrating in a game that, on medium or hard difficulty, seems to revel in finding as many scenarios as possible to kill off the player.

So--would I recommend DNF? It depends: if you're a fan of Duke Nukem series, yes--the game prominently features enough of its signature social satire to guarantee you'll enjoy it. Fans of the Half-Life series, too, will probably enjoy the game--which is co-developed by Gearbox--since so much of the gameplay echoes that series; something that seems entirely appropriate when you consider how much Half-Life itself owes to Duke's influence (remember the microwave in the first level of Black Mesa?). What I wouldn't do, however, is pick up DNF expecting something either entirely arcane or entirely modern: this isn't Painkiller or Serious Sam, and nor it is Call of Duty 4 or GoldenEye for Wii--rather, it's a surprisingly comfortable mishmash of old and new; one that reprises the past while rarely seeming enslaved to it. This may not be what enthusiasts were expecting. But that doesn't mean it's a bad game.

8/10
That was a really well thought out review, great work! I just wanted to ask, based on what you said about regenerating health, if you felt that allowing you to keep all the weapons that you picked up would have had an effect on the games level of challenge? In other words, as cool as it would be to have everything at once, (shrink ray? really? why didn't they mention that in the reviews....) do you disagree with it as a design choice? A really great treat to add to what you report they already give you in the cheats for beating the game would have been an all weapons option!

My friend is a huge fan from "back inna' day" and has been recommending it probably based on nostalgia but I've avoided it due to all the negative press but I think I'll try it out now, I kinda' owe him one anyway. Thanks for the input!