Duke Nukem Forever Will Hurt Take-Two's Profits, Says Analyst

[Low Key]

It shouldn't be hard to get past all of the negative reviews of DNF for a new Duke game. All they have to say is "we didn't make DNF", which is 100% fact. It'll be interesting to see a new Duke game from a developer who actually has ethics and delivers on time.

 

[ImprovizoR]

Is this what annalists are reduced to? Pointing out the obvious?

 

[TheComfyChair]

It just seems everyone is after the CoD crowd, when the CoD crowd are happy playing CoD (and are mostly 12 year olds who play CoD because it's 'cool').

Excuse me, good sir, but that is false. I am 16 and I enjoy CoD as much as I enjoy Mass Effect, Portal and other famous games. I love the CoD series but I don't like to be put in the 'CoD crowd'.

OT: Well, I do hope they release a sequel and learn from DNF's mistakes. It was still an average game, though. Not necessarily bad.

That's why i said 'mostly' A disproportional number of black ops sales are 12-16 year olds who wont play anything else, and that's reflected in the sales across platforms. On the PC, CoD: black ops sold 'okay' at around 2-3m (approx. including digital) whereas on consoles (which contain the aforementioned 12-16 demographic) it had collosal sales, especially on the 360 which contains an even higher number of 12-16 year olds.

Considering that starcraft 2 sold 8m copies on the PC alone it's not like the audience isn't there on PC, they're just older, which is what you'd expect with the complications of gaming PC's to consoles. The ps3 sales differential is a little to do with it being the smallest of the big 3 gaming platforms with regards to fps's and a little to do with the demographic being very slightly towards older gamers (but nowhere near PC level skewing).

 

[Fiskmasen]

Hang on, I've been out of the loop for a while... but are we, as an industry, SURPRISED that Duke Nukem Forever has "crude and often offensive attempts at humor"? IT'S A FUCKING DUKE NUKEM GAME! In that regard you get what you fucking pay for.

 

[Sean Strife]

I hope it doesn't get a sequel.

I'm liking DNF thus far (except for that godawful strip club sequence). True, I'm not fond of the two weapon limit or the Ego system that forces me to play poorly coded pinball games just so I don't have to spend as much time hiding under coffee tables but that's what happens when you imitate modern FPS games. The initial scene with the twins also struck me as going over the top but that is one scene.

But I wouldn't want it because of the way the market has moved. Before the demo hit, the claims of misogyny had already started on the message boards. After the game had hit, you would be hard-pressed to find a negative review that didn't spend time discussing how offensive Duke is to the modern gaming audience. The hive level alone probably has a complaint for every line of code in it.

So it would appear that there are only two options with the franchise.

A) Water Duke's personality down until he is acceptable to the mainstream audience and game critics.

B) Accept that attitudes have changed in the last decade and a half and let DNF be the final chapter in a story that many critics say has gone on too long.

Frankly, if this is the future for Duke Nukem:

I'd rather see the franchise be consigned to the dustbin of history along with the 80s action movies that inspired it than the watered-down politically correct non-offensive Duke Nukem most of the dissenting game critics seem to want.

Or... option C) They play up Duke's chauvinism as parody more than trying to play it straight.

Maybe the character of Duke could be centered around the fact he hasn't moved on from his glory days and he's trying desperately to remain relevant in today's world, maybe Duke continuing to go through his midlife crisis but playing it up more like when Austin Powers first got unfrozen in the Austin Powers movies and they were trying desperately to get him adjusted to modern society at the time. Maybe do something like that with Duke, so that he can still be relevant in today's society without sacrificing the essence of Duke.

 

[thepyrethatburns]

*Imagines playing a fat, balding, Duke Nukem. Reaches for a new copy of COD.*

Y'know, I think the very fact that we're debating making a Duke Nukem game with a character-driven plot about a middle-aged Duke striving to be relevant in today's society pretty much reinforces my point. There really is no room for Duke Nukem in today's gaming industry. Sometimes you just gotta accept when it's time to put Old Yeller down.

Besides, they already tried that. It was called Matt Hazard.

 

[fieryshadowcard]

I've never played a Duke game, even when I was shooting stuff in Doom and Descent during the 90s.

On the one hand, they could go on to do something particularly great for the franchise with a new game that has not gone through the development hell of Forever.

On the other hand, a smirk comes to my face if they somehow manage to make Duke Nukem and Robin. There will be nipples and ass alright, but they won't be from hot chicks.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

First off, he did that in his previous games.
DN3D: "Damn. That's one Doomed Space Marine." while he was going through an updated version of Doom. (Prison chapel area complete with pentagrams.)

In an era when Duke Nukem and Doom were essentially direct competitors, yes.

DN Time to Kill and Land of the Babes: "Various Lara Croft jokes" while he was doing an updated version of Tomb Raider.

If anything, that's been one of the long-running jokes. Mock a game while essentially being a clone of said game.[/i]

...what? That's not a joke. That's just hypocrisy. It's insulting a Prius driver from behind the wheel of your Prius.

As for raunch:

Yeah but those aren't video games. While reading some of the many reviews criticizing tone, I got to thinking about it. Games (ignoring the hentai crowd) have moved away from any form of raunch other than absurdly large boobs in absurdly small outfits. Yes, you have occasional games like Splatterhouse (which also had similar problems with sales and ratings)

Not a great example, both because Splatterhouse wasn't a terribly great game, and because most of its humor was derived from mutilation, not sexual humor.

but, for the most part, games are almost puritanical when it comes to raunch. In today's gaming world, it is far more shocking to see someone say "Nice cans" than it is to stick a shotgun in someone's mouth and splatter their fully-textured brains all over the wall. Usually, if someone does say that, they're a villain who is heading towards a rendevous with your weapon of choice. (Serrano in Bulletstorm being a prime example)

Yeah...because humor is difficult to do, and gore isn't. When a 'funny' game falls flat, it's a complete disaster. Failed humor isn't just unfunny: it's outright annoying. For violence...hell, how do you fail to deliver violence? It's simple. And if you make it too over-the-top, it becomes campy, which has its own niche appeal.

And that ignores the fact that just about every game has to have one or more "oscar moments". Even Gray in Bulletstorm would have those moments every few levels.

Erm..."oscar moments"? I'm really not sure what you're talking about. Could you elaborate?

I think that, if Duke Nukem 3D were released today with updated graphics/sound but the same attitude, the game would attract as many complaints.

Wait, what? Are you serious?

Good God, man, do you even remember when DN3D came out? It got just as much, if not more flak than Forever did. This was the era when the a game about a man killing demons was blamed for Columbine. How did you think people reacted to a similar game that also had piles of naked women?

Perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic but that sounds like an option that would lead to failure.

How? Tell me specifically.

The closest that we're going to get on that is Bulletstorm (which also had it's fair share of complaints about maturity level). Games are "serious business" now and I just don't think that there really is room for Duke Nukem anymore.

Continuing from above, tell me 'why.' I want to know why, specifically, raunchy comedies can exist in film, print, and television, but will never work in video games.

 

[thepyrethatburns]

And that ignores the fact that just about every game has to have one or more "oscar moments". Even Gray in Bulletstorm would have those moments every few levels.

Erm..."oscar moments"? I'm really not sure what you're talking about. Could you elaborate?

[Vague Bulletstorm spoilers]

Okay. If you played Bulletstorm, do you remember when Ishi and Gray are on the conveyor belt and they suddenly start talking about why they went after Serrano and Ishi told Gray that the crew followed him because he wasn't just trying to kill Serrano but he was also trying to redeem their souls?

Or, after Trishka falls through the floor and finds out about how Serrano killed Novak.....WHO WAS HER FATHER (dun, dun, DUNNNNN) and she discusses why she became a member of Final Echo.

Those moments that crop up in a game between bouts of creatively killing people to rack up points and yelling "I'll kill your dick" at each other. That's what I mean.

I think that, if Duke Nukem 3D were released today with updated graphics/sound but the same attitude, the game would attract as many complaints.

Wait, what? Are you serious?

Good God, man, do you even remember when DN3D came out? It got just as much, if not more flak than Forever did. This was the era when the a game about a man killing demons was blamed for Columbine. How did you think people reacted to a similar game that also had piles of naked women?

Actually, it didn't. DN3D came out years before Columbine. Doom was blamed at the time. Max Payne also had to duck and cover because Max initially wore a trenchcoat

DN3D didn't get any flak because of who the audience was and what the general public thought of gaming and gamers. We were still the bunch of antisocial nerds in the basement at that point. On Capitol Hill, it was mostly Nintendo and Sega in the spotlight rather than PC games. Noone paid attention to PC games in the MSM.

The closest that we're going to get on that is Bulletstorm (which also had it's fair share of complaints about maturity level). Games are "serious business" now and I just don't think that there really is room for Duke Nukem anymore.

Continuing from above, tell me 'why.' I want to know why, specifically, raunchy comedies can exist in film, print, and television, but will never work in video games.

Cite me specific examples of raunchy games that have done well from both a critical and sales standpoint.

 

[thepyrethatburns]

Actually, bring your answers over here:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.299127-General-gaming-question-on-DNF-and-the-gaming-industry

 

[sb666]

hopefully the next one will let you have more then 2 weapons and it will get rid of the cover based shooting

 

[zelda2fanboy]

It's possible, however, without more than a decade of baggage and old design, a proper "new" Duke Nukem game might be able to find an audience where DNF did not.
Permalink

Make Yahtzee write it! Make him!

 

[Kenji_03]

I'm still waiting on my "Leslie Neilson" style Duke Nukem where we can use Duke as a metaphor for how pathetic trying to be Macho is without Duke having to be unlikable.

 

[fenrizz]

A few suggestions for the Duke franchise:

* Let me carry more than 2 weapons at the time.
* Drop the "EGO" meter that fills up by hiding from enemies. That shit was lame.
I'm supposed to buy that Duke's Ego gets boosted by hiding? Don't think so.

* The game felt sluggish to play, from walking to shooting.
Control, physics and combat/weapons are going to need a serious overhauling.


* Duke's mansion (or penthouse) was pretty cool.
Keep it and expand.


Do that and we can talk.

 

[Baresark]

Why is it even a Failure of a game will sell millions of copies now? Are we that easy to get to buy things that we can make a platinum hit out of a game that is said to be bad? This is why i hate being called a gamer at times.

Well, as of June 18th, it has only sold 200k units. And the article says it may not even do 1.5 Million total units. I mean, that is not a failure, but it seems that anyone only ever tracks game sales for the first few weeks.

So basically and analysis said some random shit an people listened. I need that job lol.

Haha, you and I both. Sounds like an easy paycheck, and you don't even need to play the bad ones to say yay or nay.

 

[Spade Lead]

As much as I liked DNF and hate most of the guys who reviewed it, I have to say that DNF only came out for two reasons.

1. To bring Duke back into the industry properly and not "DNF is cancelled, but we're making a new Duke game anyway".

2. To bring closure to a 14-year long story of delays, engine changes, lawsuits, and George Broussard being really dumb.

And now all I want DNF to do right now is to sell "Enough". Enough to justify a sequel that fixes the problems DNF had. Horrendous NPC animations, dated graphical technology (Good aesthetic, though), the 2-weapon swap, maybe the EGO system, and the fact Duke doesn;t talk as much as he should. That and most of the "Dated" mechanics that critics say the game has is due to being in development for so long and George Broussard seeing Half-Life 2 and saying "MOAR PHYSICS PUZZLES!". It has influence from every major/"Revolutionary" FPS in the last 14 years.

What we need, like you said, is a new Duke Nukem game that does its own thing. And since George Broussard is miles away from this and Randy Pitchford is known to hit deadlines, I think it's safe to say DN5 will be an on-time improvement upon DNF. For most people here, it may not even be that hard to manage.

I just bought DNF a week ago or so, and I love every aspect of it, especially the online multiplayer. I hope they add a single system multiplayer as well to the next one, but even if they don't, I am glad I have this game and will definitely purchase the next one.