Dungeons and Dragons: got the red starter box, what now?

[spartan231490]

You enter a dimly lit room, the curtains pulled down over the windows, no doubt to hide the inhabitants inside from the light of the sun. In the center of the room you see 5 short, hunchbacked figures huddled furtively around a wooden table talking amongst themselves excitedly in some strange, primitive tongue. You cannot see what it is they are huddled around but you notice a discarded red packaging on the floor near the table. As terrible ideas form in your mind as to what might be happening, you hear the clattering of dice being rolled, followed by the disappointed moan of one of the shadowy figures. Finally figuring what is going on you take a step into the room, hoping to stop this profane ritual,and as your foot hits the ground with a loud rustle and crack you realize the floor is strewn with sweet wrappers and scraps of crisps and you have stepped on a particularly large sweet wrapper with a particularly dense group of scrip scraps under it. The 5 figures suddenly turn toward you, some of their faces twist into ugly sneers, as if they were going to hiss at you. One of the figures approaches you, a tone of slight desperation in it's voice. Although you can barely understand it's language, you can make out the following:

Hey,

One of my friends over there bought a 4th edition dungeons and dragons red starter set box. We've played through the encounters included a few times over now, and I'm beginning to understand this can't be all. I tried to search for what we should buy next but I am at a total loss.

Could you help me decide what to buy next to expand our dungeons and dragons experience?

EDIT: We've already made up our own adventures, it's just that we don't have enough skill cards to go round, the small bestiary is getting repetitive and once our characters reach a certain (low) level, we can't grant ourselves feats anymore because there ARE no more.

book .pdfs are everywhere. Although, I would play 3.5, partly because I dislike 4E and partly because there is more stuff for it.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

EDIT: We've already made up our own adventures, it's just that we don't have enough skill cards to go round, the small bestiary is getting repetitive and once our characters reach a certain (low) level, we can't grant ourselves feats anymore because there ARE no more.

... buy more books?

This is why I don't care for the starter set. It maxes out way to quickly, and you end up having to buy more stuff anyway.

 

[Moose Fisher]

4th edition isn't bad.
The reason there's so little material in the red box is because that's the 'Essentials' line. Everything was separated into boxes and revised. I think all you need now is the monster box (very good, I like the tokens) and the DM box. I think that would be another $60-$80 for the two. You could also buy the original 4e books for $30 each (or get pdfs). Other random supplies would be grid paper or some kind of board to write on and something to represent characters and creatures.

Now, as for the debate between 4e and 3e... I say go with 4e. 4e is a lot more streamlined and allows all the characters to do something. 3e is terrible for non-casters, as the casters will eventually have a spell to solve all sorts of problems and the non-casters are stuck saying "I hit it" over and over. 4e's rules focus on combat and does it well. Everything else is left for the DM and players to decide and have fun with.
4e rituals cover most of the 3e utility spells, anyone can learn them, and you can always make your own. Skills can be expanded upon if you feel there are too little. What you will need to do is adjust some of the numbers (lower skill DC by 5 or 10, lower monster AC by 5 or something) and maybe cut monster hp in half to speed things up.

then version 4.0 came out and made some radical changes, a lot of people feel like they dumbed down the game and made it more like a video game. most dnd players dont like 4.0

People hated 3e because they thought it was being dumbed down and made like a video game too. Instead of WoW, the hot button video game was Diablo.
Here's an example: http://www.gamegrene.com/node/20

And people hated AD&D 2e, or even AD&D compared to Basic. The big thing is to find what you like and have fun with it.

IMO, run with the 4e D&D stuff you have (your game store should have the 4e Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide, and Monster Manual if you got the Red Box from there), try some of 3e, and have the group decide what is more fun. You guys may like the combat of 4e more, but the detail of 3e. You can try mixing or borrowing ideas from the two.

Actually, read stuff written by Gary Gygax (AD&D 1e). That has lots of good ideas for constructing scenarios.

EDIT: I should also add that you don't HAVE to play D&D to play PnP RPGs. There's a wide market out there, and a lot of companies/designers don't push their product like WotC does with D&D. A lot of these games are more simple than D&D. You can still play D&D, but know that you're not limited to what's in the 'official' books. Once you get a good summary of the basic rules in the core 3 books (Players handbook, dungeon master's guide, monster manual), you should be able to create you own material.

I like 4e because I can create monsters and traps and have a good measurement of its power. 3e has that, but there are still holes that make it difficult to measure how strong something is.

 

[Electrohydra]

I strongly recommend 3.5 (or pathfinder) because it's much more versatile than 4E (or so I find), but that's my view. There is one thing that 4E is best at though, and that's balance, which is the thing that 3.5 sometimes has problems with (but this is why you have a DM). So if you're playing D&D for FIGHTING MONSTERS!!! only, then 4E is best. But in the end, only you can know which edition of D&D is right for you (or maybe it's not even D&D, there are so many systems out there).

So, if you decide to stay in 4E but don't want to buy the books yet because you're not sure, I have a few easy solutions to your problems:
-Dungeon tiles: Graph paper makes for easy drawing of encounters, and an eraser lets you move around the map. Alternatively there exists game maps that are just blank squares that you can use erasable markers on, which lets you see better but costs more money. Or just do the encounters in your head, though this often leads to 2-dimensional encounters (with only in front and behind as directions)
-Skill cards: Paper and pen are your friends. For more choices you can create your own or get some that other people created. Just google "D&D 4E homebrew".
-Monsters: As above, Imagination or google.

If you intend to go to 3.5, then you will need a Player's Handbook, dungeon Master's guide and Monster manual, but you don't need more than one copy for the whole group, as most of the rules are available for free at www.d20srd.org. If you want more options, there are soooo many you will get lost. Books by the dozens to buy or download, as well as countless amounts of homebrew (made by players) material.

If you don't know which system to take, maybe telling us what you look for in your RPG will help us find the one that's for you.

 

[Moose Fisher]

If you do go into 3.5, give Psionics a look. If everyone plays a psionic class (and there are more in Complete Psionic), then everyone will have options beyond "I hit it".

 

[Riobux]

I'd advise checking out both 3.5th and 4th edition rule sets and judging which suits you better. Once you work out, buy the players and DM's rulebook, maybe grab some monster packs and things like that and off you go. There are also plenty of online campaigns you can try out. Just give it a Google to be honest.

 

[Electrohydra]

3e is terrible for non-casters, as the casters will eventually have a spell to solve all sorts of problems and the non-casters are stuck saying "I hit it" over and over.

While this is true for experienced players, it is not for beginners so it won't crop up as a problem until some time (depending on how fast you pick up on the loopholes-ish), and then, well, that's why you have rule 0 (the DM is always right, even when it goes against written rules) The DM can ban certain classes that are too powerful or change them so that they are less so, and change weaker classes so they are more powerful. Or simply make everyone use a class in the same power level. Or use various homebrew fixes for classes. This is only a problem is you do everything exactly by the book, which just leads to Pun-Pun (Pun-Pun is a character build that abuses loop-holes in the various books so that he gets an arbitrarily large amount of everything).

 

[Link XL1]

DONT BUY 4th EDITION!

ok, you've pretty much convinced me to get 3.5 and pathfinder. Does this mean my group and I all have to make new characters and start anew? Also, what do I buy? the rules compendium? Is there a package similiar to the starter kit as in it has dungeon tiles, monster stats, races, classes etc?

http://www.amazon.com/Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Core-Rulebook/dp/1601251505

this is on amazon, im sure there are other places you could go if you wanted, but that's the Core Rulebook (the big book i mentioned earlier). you can get away with buying only that and some dice (dice are required). though a Bestiary might be nice if your DM isnt experienced enough (i dont mean that in an insulting way) to make up monsters on the fly.

i dont think there is a starter pack thing for this, but i'd suggest just reading through the core book, then just play. even if you dont know every last little detail just play so you can get a feel for it. I should warn you (though im sure you already know) there's a lot of reading involved. idk how much you like to read, but i do enjoy just glancing over the Core book for fun.

the Core book has Classes, Races, a player sheet in the back for photo copying, and just about everything you'll need to play. as far as dungeon tiles go, i usually use graph paper and pencils. but i know a guy who uses a cool fake leather board and figurines, so every DM is different. i suggest trying different methods of displaying the game and seeing what you and your friends like.

the biggest and most important thing to remember is that these books are expensive. so just be careful, consult your friends who play the game with you, maybe go to a bookstore or gamestore and skim through the books to see what it looks like. hell, you could even talk to the cashier about it (from the gamestore), he might be able to give you good insight about the differences between 4.0 and pathfinder.

 

[DaJoW]

If you've decided not to go with 4th Edition, I'd suggest going with Pathfinder. I haven't played it myself but I've been told it fixes a lot of the Linear-Warrior Quadratic-Wizard and several universe-breaking combo problems of 3.5 which broke three separate campaigns for my group (Pun-Pun the level 1 universe slayer, Batman Wizard and Spell-to-Power Erudite with a wizard in the party respectively). If you're going for 3.5, you might want to have a look at this. [http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1002.0] It isn't perfect, but it does explain a lot of the problems that tend to pop up, especially later when suddenly the Wizard has more HP and AC than the tank and can finish boss encounters on the first turn.

As people have said, Core Rulebook, Monster Manual and Dungeon Masters Guide are the ones to go for first. After that, I'd suggesting talking with your friends about what kind of character they'd like to play (rogue, caster, warrior etc.) and if there are several looking at one type, buy the book associated with that type of class to make sure there's variety, or you could get another MM if you want more variety in your mobs.

Personally, I've always preferred 4e to 3.5, though that probably has a lot to do with the campaigns breaking in 3.5 and me never getting any real feel for the system.