Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rules First Impressions: The Magic Is Back

[babinro]

I really enjoyed 3.5 but absolutely fell in love with 4E.

I'm exactly the opposite D&D player that 5th seems to be catering towards. I intend to give 5E a shot but it wouldn't surprise me if it fails to impress as much as 4th.

That said, my issues with 3.5 are all easily addressed. My main issues were the following:
- The terrible balance between casters and melee
- Save or Die: I dislike this from both the player and monster perspectives. Anti-climatic at best, cheesy at worst.
- The lack of attention to mobile combat
- The complete mess that was mutliclassing for min-max play.

 

[Ftaghn To You Too]

It's a horrible shame that rather than pushing 4e forward, refining it, and making it the diamond of crunchy tactical combat it could have been, they regressed somewhat back into 3.5's terrible mess. I don't know how Wizards managed to convince a solid generation that 3.5 was good. Perhaps they actually are wizards! I'm glad to see they're trying to improve the game, and simultaneously stripping down and modernizing the system. I will have to give it a try.

 

[cyvaris]

Having started with 3/3.5 and taught myself to play...I greatly dislike 5e. It's a step back in design, embracing stupid mechanics that were better off dead and buried. Sure classes are slightly more balanced now, but Fighters/martial types are right back into "hur dur basic attack" mode from 3e. Sure they have "stances" now, but that isn't anything "new" since it showed up at the end of 3e's lifespan in the Tome of Battle:Book of Nine Swords. Heck the "stance" ability of Fighters, Rogues, Rangers even found it's way into 4e and you know what? It sucked there. Wizards still had all their fun toys, while the Martial classes were stuck with basic attacks modified slightly by a stance. It's not dynamic, it's not interesting, and it's not exciting. 5e once again shoved Martial characters onto the back burner and will no doubt continue to do so since the lead creative team has made it pretty well known they favor Wizards being far more interesting.

Thank the dice for the CBLoader and the old offline 4e character builder.

 

[vipLink]

Here you are.

Thank you very much. I was looking at the site later and realised i missed the giant button to the right with "Basic Rule" which would have brought me there.

The core rules can be downloaded from the Wizards website.

The Table of Contents for the Starter Set rules is on the front cover and lists
Chapter 1: How to Play (Getting Started, Six Abilities) pages 2 - 7
Chapter 2: Combat (The Order of Combat, Movement and Position, Actions in Combat, Making an Attack, Cover, Damage and Healing) pages 8 - 13
Chapter 3: Adventuring (Travel, Resting, Rewards, Equipment) pages 14 - 19
Chapter 4: Spellcasting (What Is a Spell, Casting a Spell, Spell Lists, Spells) pages 20 - 31

The back cover is an appendix that describes various conditions that can afflict a character (Blind, Charmed, Deafened, etc.)

It does seem like just enough to run the adventure; for instance, there is no discussion of classes or races. It doesn't appear to contain any information about the new character features such as personality traits and the like (although they do appear as part of the pre-generated characters). However, if you want to get a group together and run a 5e session then it looks like this would allow you to do so with minimum effort.

Thanks a lot!

Well, I guess for the price you couldn't expect much. The Basic Rules PDF ist just so expansive I was expecting the Starter Set to include less rules and more of a campaign with monster tiles and a few maps. Something more akin to the 4th Edition Starter.

Friends of mine recently said they felt like playing DnD and since 5th Edition is just around the corner it makes sense to start there.
I've just not had to much experience as a DM, but really want to have a decent campaign and a few grid maps and tiles before we start.
I know you can do without markers and maps and I could easily make a few slay some goblins, rescue the townsfolk adventures, but they're kinda new to DnD and I'd like to really make a good impression right from the start.

Is there software you guys use that easily let's you create tiled maps, or sites that have thorough campaigns I could borrow from?

 

[Aitamen]

Seems like they're finally getting the hint that the goal of the books is to inspire and inform the player as to "why" things are done, and design a system of rewards to generate play...

I can't tell if forcing power-gamers to RP, or similar, is the best of ideas, but it's been a long time coming that the system and the intent were married, so I guess we'll see how it plays out.

Meanwhile, I still hold that any DM worth their salt has read the 1.0 books extensively... I still don't see this changing that.

 

[Aitamen]

5e once again shoved Martial characters onto the back burner and will no doubt continue to do so since the lead creative team has made it pretty well known they favor Wizards being far more interesting.

A post entirely based on combat mechanics, in a post celebrating that the game isn't entirely combat. Still, I feel like you're missing a few points I'd like to touch upon.

Pro-tip: If you feel like MUs get too much field time, remember that getting *8-hours of uninterrupted sleep* should happen roughly once a week, game-time... and never in a dungeon, cave, or other hostile territory (at least not without impressive resources dedicated to such... basically "clearing out" a place, and making it suitable to live in, bringing in mercs/soldiers/colonists for defense, etc.). If MUs are a problem, remember they're supposed to be glass cannons. Use more traps, or higher-level traps. Don't be afraid to decapitate PCs for a failed save.

Martial characters getting to act *every turn*, in both *offense and defense* means that they should be the ones getting the bulk of combat interactions. And, as in prior editions, if you're *just* attacking you're probably not paying much attention to the game. Environmental play, distractions, combat-interactions with opponents who are intelligent (yay speaking time caps! That's always driven good thinking in fighters/thieves.) We all know what we think of fighters who don't carry marbles and salt, don't we?

We still have quite a few places (puzzles, traps, etc.) where fighters generally multi-classed to gain more interactions (which is sorta where Bard came from... fighter/thief who wanted something that wasn't *quite* magic, to avoid the negatives of magic). They seem to be substantially more invested in combat, but that's why they specialize... Thieves get city-of-night and personal missions, MUs get puzzles and nukes, Fighters get combat and generalized standing (thieves and MUs cannot bear most social interactions... remember that an MU *known* as an MU will be hunted and killed for such by anything less than general aristocracy or specific mage-friendly towns) for social interaction. Clerics are slightly worse in combat (worse armor, worse weapon selection, no projectiles, etc.), but get healing and standing, which would be a bit OP except that they generally carry a quest, and are thus limited in their interactions and personal goals.

 

[babinro]

Having started with 3/3.5 and taught myself to play...I greatly dislike 5e. It's a step back in design, embracing stupid mechanics that were better off dead and buried. Sure classes are slightly more balanced now, but Fighters/martial types are right back into "hur dur basic attack" mode from 3e. Sure they have "stances" now, but that isn't anything "new" since it showed up at the end of 3e's lifespan in the Tome of Battle:Book of Nine Swords. Heck the "stance" ability of Fighters, Rogues, Rangers even found it's way into 4e and you know what? It sucked there. Wizards still had all their fun toys, while the Martial classes were stuck with basic attacks modified slightly by a stance. It's not dynamic, it's not interesting, and it's not exciting. 5e once again shoved Martial characters onto the back burner and will no doubt continue to do so since the lead creative team has made it pretty well known they favor Wizards being far more interesting.

This. So much this.

5E = 3.75E

That's pretty much my initial impressions. They are really playing things safe with this edition so far and appear to be returning back to what was more popular regardless of whether or not it was flawed.

Even if you HATED 4E, it's hard to deny that playing a Fighter or a Monk was a LOT more fun than those same classes in 3.5. There was just so much more to do and more strategy to boot. Heck, even the more basic essentials versions of the melee classes were more interesting (though I'm NOT a fan of essentials classes for anyone other than beginners to the game).

It's my hope that these are truly the BASIC rules to the game. Keep things simple for ease of entry. New players would pick up the game quickly as a Fighter or Rogue in 5E. Perhaps future books will give us more dynamic non-spellcaster combatants.

Note: I've only read through to the end of the classes portion of the 5e basic ruleset so I've still got a lot to learn about 5e that could change my opinion on it.

 

[Thunderous Cacophony]

Friends of mine recently said they felt like playing DnD and since 5th Edition is just around the corner it makes sense to start there.
I've just not had to much experience as a DM, but really want to have a decent campaign and a few grid maps and tiles before we start.
I know you can do without markers and maps and I could easily make a few slay some goblins, rescue the townsfolk adventures, but they're kinda new to DnD and I'd like to really make a good impression right from the start.

Is there software you guys use that easily let's you create tiled maps, or sites that have thorough campaigns I could borrow from?

I usually don't use software that lets me print out maps that often. What I can recommend is:

1) The ProDnD app (I have it for Android, I don't know if it's for other OS). It's a one-button map generator, pretty basic but with a few sliders for size/complexity and styles (Dungeon, Cavern, and Maze). Just keep tapping 'generate' until you find one you like, sketch it on some graph paper, and you're good to go. This website is a bit more complex, but it can generate a whole whack of stuff, including magic items and multi-level dungeons. Again, though, I think you have to draw it manually.

2) If you're willing to drop a little money, Dungeon a Day has some fantastic stuff for running a dungeon crawl. I don't know what kind of game you're looking to run, but the stuff here is interesting and well-balanced, with maps, good puzzles and combat, and an entire little ecosystem.

3) Here is a bunch of 4E campaign modules WotC has released that should last a very long time. The rules will need to be updated for 5E if you want to use that system, but the bones are solid.

4) A personal favourite, Murder in Baldur's Gate is probably the best thing to come out of Encounters. There is a definite paucity of street maps, but it can be a fantastic way to get people to understand how much freedom there is in TTRPGs. You'll need to be on your toes, because they'll take things in unexpected directions, but it can be enormous fun.

On a general note, I recommend giving them a session or two at the beginning of the campaign, before the start of any module or campaign arc, where they have "an average day". Maybe they go clear out some giant spiders from a cave beneath Johnstown, or rescue a maiden from a little tribe of kobolds; just something with little risk where they can figure out how the game works mechanically, how to play their characters, and how to play their characters off of each other. Once they are comfortable, then feel free to open the door and point to some big event happening on the other side.

 

[Requia]

But maybe I just rolled a 20 on selecting my group of players

I've seen rules like this house ruled in, and it always works badly.

On the other hand, maybe that has more to do with the people who would house rule it in, and will work with groups who wouldn't normally bother.

 

[cyvaris]

5e once again shoved Martial characters onto the back burner and will no doubt continue to do so since the lead creative team has made it pretty well known they favor Wizards being far more interesting.

A post entirely based on combat mechanics, in a post celebrating that the game isn't entirely combat. Still, I feel like you're missing a few points I'd like to touch upon.

I did not address non-combat mechanics since I felt they were fine. Though again, Fighters get the short end of the non-combat stick in 5e while Wizards still have plenty of Utility so maybe I should comment on those. Won't it's simply too easy of a target.My stance is and always will be if you need mechanics for roleplaying you are doing something wrong. I see D&D rules as primarily there to guide combat encounters, not give my mechanics for how to interact socially with the other players at the table.

I like that getting to "attack" and "defend" is an AMAZING AWESOME thing Fighters get to do. That's sooooooooooooo wonderful, my character feels sooooooo powerful now. Ohhh look the Wizard just incinerated half the room, man I wish I could do some sort of neat attack like that! Saying that Fighters should compensate by using environmental items and other minor things is not a valid answer. The Wizard can do the same exact thing, which pretty much negates that "advantage". 5e once again is using the "players need to think creatively when playing a Fighter" excuse in order to avoid designing mechanics that would make Fighters/Martial classes interesting and fun. 4e made the Martial classes awesome, but that stepped on too many Wizard fanboy toes, so the Martial classes have been tossed back into the trash heap.

 

[vipLink]

I usually don't use software that lets me print out maps that often. What I can recommend is:

1) The ProDnD app (I have it for Android, I don't know if it's for other OS). It's a one-button map generator, pretty basic but with a few sliders for size/complexity and styles (Dungeon, Cavern, and Maze). Just keep tapping 'generate' until you find one you like, sketch it on some graph paper, and you're good to go. This website is a bit more complex, but it can generate a whole whack of stuff, including magic items and multi-level dungeons. Again, though, I think you have to draw it manually.

This is Great, exactly what I was looking for.

2) If you're willing to drop a little money, Dungeon a Day has some fantastic stuff for running a dungeon crawl. I don't know what kind of game you're looking to run, but the stuff here is interesting and well-balanced, with maps, good puzzles and combat, and an entire little ecosystem.

See I love stuff like this, but the group I'll be playing with has been playing "Vampire: the masquerade" lately, so I'm hoping to get them hyped for Combat, but still want to keep "realistic" role-playing.
I'll be sure to check it out some more and come back to that when I have them hooked, but I'll keep it story-centric for now.

3) Here is a bunch of 4E campaign modules WotC has released that should last a very long time. The rules will need to be updated for 5E if you want to use that system, but the bones are solid.

Wow, that is a long list. I'm pretty impressed by how WotC is making so much material available for free. Basic DnD seems like it really is all you need to start a decent game, and that's especially great for Players if the DM has the only books. I like what I'm seeing in 5e so I think we'll stick to that. Last I played was 3,5e and I like how 5e gives you lots of starting choices (obviously a lot more in the Player Handbook once it's out), but seems to put a lot more weight on those choices. The Proficiency Bonus that Scales with level, and the starting Subclasses really make even lvl 1 Characters seem important in some situations and makes sure they keep scaling in that direction. It makes it easier for beginners to see where they're strengths are and for advanced players who want more variety multi-classing is still always an option.

4) A personal favourite, Murder in Baldur's Gate is probably the best thing to come out of Encounters. There is a definite paucity of street maps, but it can be a fantastic way to get people to understand how much freedom there is in TTRPGs. You'll need to be on your toes, because they'll take things in unexpected directions, but it can be enormous fun.

That does sound like fun, I'll definitely check it out once I have the 5e Monster Guide, so I have a better Idea of how to adapt the adventure to 5e Rules.
I've found a unboxing blog of the Starter Set and really love the quality of the art. I'm so hyped that it's a must buy now especially for such a small price. The included adventure seems pretty nice, and is apparently open ended with a guide on how to adapt upon the campaign, which sounds great for new DMs.

On a general note, I recommend giving them a session or two at the beginning of the campaign, before the start of any module or campaign arc, where they have "an average day". Maybe they go clear out some giant spiders from a cave beneath Johnstown, or rescue a maiden from a little tribe of kobolds; just something with little risk where they can figure out how the game works mechanically, how to play their characters, and how to play their characters off of each other. Once they are comfortable, then feel free to open the door and point to some big event happening on the other side.

Yeah I'll be sure to start with something low risk, I just like to plan a lot of details in advance to make the world seem more realistic and make sure I have something decent to build interesting encounters upon.

Thanks for all the helpful links, they sure helped me out a lot. I have really good feeling about the new release now and I'm sure I'll have a few decent Ideas ready when the Starter Set finally gets here.

Can't wait

 

[scotth266]

The trait, background and flaw system sounds like a lot of cribbing has been done off of Edge of the Empire. That's good, because Edge of the Empire is probably one of the best games in terms of blending roleplay and mechanics.

Still not convinced the system is going to be worth what they're charging, and I hate Vancian casting, but at least it sounds like they didn't throw out 4E completely, which is nice.

I don't get the author's comment about how "ooooh cool 75% of each race page is lore" though. 4E was the same way - all the numbers were in a box (or two, if you had a race power) and the rest of the page/pages were lore.

 

[Aitamen]

[T]he Wizard just incinerated half the room

If that ever happens, your DM sucks at balancing encounters. Or, ya know, your wiz is an idiot who's going to be useless for the rest of the two months you spend in this place (assuming you play weekly).

But hey, that's fine... you also seemed to play 4.0, which is sorta a joke at this point.