E3: Dark Souls

[ultrachicken]

Most importantly, put a proper tutorial in the game. Yes, the game is supposed to be challenging, but throwing the player to the wolves without spending the time to teach them proper techniques is a cheap shot. I didn't even know how to use magic until I was at least 15 hours into the game because no-one bothered to explain it to me.

A lot of people say that, but i hear a lot more people enjoying the not-beeing-pampered by the game. To be honest i think so, too. I pretty much dislike the whole concept of tutorials, cause it seems to suggest that people would get frustrated or bored if they didnt get everything about a game served on a silver plate beforehand.
Exploring everything your character can do is a lot more fun and creates real connection betrween you and the pile of polygons youre playing.

Other than that:
I thought i read that they abolished classes altogether. I think it was in edge magazine where they wrote it in an interview.
So are the classes only for the demo, or do we have to pick one?
I wouldnt mind it, but it kinda confuses me.

I don't think being taught the basics of how to play is equal to pampering. Tutorials exist to allow the player to understand the controls and how to manage your character properly. Demon's Souls did neither of those things. I agree that tutorials shouldn't present everything about the game on a silver platter, but they should at least give you sufficient knowledge to get started properly. The game needs a contained tutorial segment that actually goes over what needs to be known, and then the game should throw you to the wolves.

 

[Penitent]

Most importantly, put a proper tutorial in the game. Yes, the game is supposed to be challenging, but throwing the player to the wolves without spending the time to teach them proper techniques is a cheap shot. I didn't even know how to use magic until I was at least 15 hours into the game because no-one bothered to explain it to me.

A lot of people say that, but i hear a lot more people enjoying the not-beeing-pampered by the game. To be honest i think so, too. I pretty much dislike the whole concept of tutorials, cause it seems to suggest that people would get frustrated or bored if they didnt get everything about a game served on a silver plate beforehand.
Exploring everything your character can do is a lot more fun and creates real connection betrween you and the pile of polygons youre playing.

Other than that:
I thought i read that they abolished classes altogether. I think it was in edge magazine where they wrote it in an interview.
So are the classes only for the demo, or do we have to pick one?
I wouldnt mind it, but it kinda confuses me.

I don't think being taught the basics of how to play is equal to pampering. Tutorials exist to allow the player to understand the controls and how to manage your character properly. Demon's Souls did neither of those things. I agree that tutorials shouldn't present everything about the game on a silver platter, but they should at least give you sufficient knowledge to get started properly. The game needs a contained tutorial segment that actually goes over what needs to be known, and then the game should throw you to the wolves.

I don't think Demon's Souls was aiming for a progressional level with its tutorial: it was acting on a more spiritual level. Its objective wasn't to see the player firmly understand all of its techniques - it was to prime the player mentally for what kind of journey was ahead of them.

Case in point, the Vanguard. He ends the tutorial by killing you, in a fight beyond your level of skill against a boss fight who is truly but a sign of things to come. What kind of way to build confidence is that? It's a blow to the ego, and any notion that it'd be a simple ride. With that kind of tutorial ending, the developers are saying "This is serious. You need to find out how to survive."

For a game as atmospheric, proud and challenging as Demon's Souls, imparting this mindset is far more valuable than any amount of time spent explaining the mechanics that come naturally like blocking and stamina. For with that mindset comes the resolve to understand the game naturally.

(Though you have a point if you're speaking about the game's interface: that thing was just ridiculous.)

 

[Ickorus]

Dark Souls, huh?

Really pulled out all the stops on creativity thinking up that name, didn't they?

Regardless, very much looking forward to this game, Demon's Souls is one of my favourite games ever.

Speculation: I wonder if they'll add a co-op mode where you can actually choose a friend to play with, that'd be fun.

 

[Penitent]

Dark Souls, huh?

Really pulled out all the stops on creativity thinking up that name, didn't they?

Regardless, very much looking forward to this game, Demon's Souls is one of my favourite games ever.

Speculation: I wonder if they'll add a co-op mode where you can actually choose a friend to play with, that'd be fun.

I believe an article came out about the naming process: it wasn't the name they wanted at first, but with the other (three or so) titles they chose, they were either copyrighted or wouldn't go down well abroad. For instance, the first name they chose was Dark Race.

 

[Ickorus]

Dark Souls, huh?

Really pulled out all the stops on creativity thinking up that name, didn't they?

Regardless, very much looking forward to this game, Demon's Souls is one of my favourite games ever.

Speculation: I wonder if they'll add a co-op mode where you can actually choose a friend to play with, that'd be fun.

I believe an article came out about the naming process: it wasn't the name they wanted at first, but with the other (three or so) titles they chose, they were either copyrighted or wouldn't go down well abroad. For instance, the first name they chose was Dark Race.

Oh Dear, I can see why they didn't use that name. ><

I don't really mind the name though to be honest, it helps it keeps it's ties to Demon's Souls intact.

 

[Atheist.]

Most importantly, put a proper tutorial in the game. Yes, the game is supposed to be challenging, but throwing the player to the wolves without spending the time to teach them proper techniques is a cheap shot. I didn't even know how to use magic until I was at least 15 hours into the game because no-one bothered to explain it to me.

A lot of people say that, but i hear a lot more people enjoying the not-beeing-pampered by the game. To be honest i think so, too. I pretty much dislike the whole concept of tutorials, cause it seems to suggest that people would get frustrated or bored if they didnt get everything about a game served on a silver plate beforehand.
Exploring everything your character can do is a lot more fun and creates real connection betrween you and the pile of polygons youre playing.

Other than that:
I thought i read that they abolished classes altogether. I think it was in edge magazine where they wrote it in an interview.
So are the classes only for the demo, or do we have to pick one?
I wouldnt mind it, but it kinda confuses me.

I don't think being taught the basics of how to play is equal to pampering. Tutorials exist to allow the player to understand the controls and how to manage your character properly. Demon's Souls did neither of those things. I agree that tutorials shouldn't present everything about the game on a silver platter, but they should at least give you sufficient knowledge to get started properly. The game needs a contained tutorial segment that actually goes over what needs to be known, and then the game should throw you to the wolves.

I don't think Demon's Souls was aiming for a progressional level with its tutorial: it was acting on a more spiritual level. Its objective wasn't to see the player firmly understand all of its techniques - it was to prime the player mentally for what kind of journey was ahead of them.

Case in point, the Vanguard. He ends the tutorial by killing you, in a fight beyond your level of skill against a boss fight who is truly but a sign of things to come. What kind of way to build confidence is that? It's a blow to the ego, and any notion that it'd be a simple ride. With that kind of tutorial ending, the developers are saying "This is serious. You need to find out how to survive."

For a game as atmospheric, proud and challenging as Demon's Souls, imparting this mindset is far more valuable than any amount of time spent explaining the mechanics that come naturally like blocking and stamina. For with that mindset comes the resolve to understand the game naturally.

(Though you have a point if you're speaking about the game's interface: that thing was just ridiculous.)

Or you could just kill the Vanguard in the tutorial, get a bunch of nice loot, then get Falcon Punched by the Dragon God.

 

[Penitent]

Most importantly, put a proper tutorial in the game. Yes, the game is supposed to be challenging, but throwing the player to the wolves without spending the time to teach them proper techniques is a cheap shot. I didn't even know how to use magic until I was at least 15 hours into the game because no-one bothered to explain it to me.

A lot of people say that, but i hear a lot more people enjoying the not-beeing-pampered by the game. To be honest i think so, too. I pretty much dislike the whole concept of tutorials, cause it seems to suggest that people would get frustrated or bored if they didnt get everything about a game served on a silver plate beforehand.
Exploring everything your character can do is a lot more fun and creates real connection betrween you and the pile of polygons youre playing.

Other than that:
I thought i read that they abolished classes altogether. I think it was in edge magazine where they wrote it in an interview.
So are the classes only for the demo, or do we have to pick one?
I wouldnt mind it, but it kinda confuses me.

I don't think being taught the basics of how to play is equal to pampering. Tutorials exist to allow the player to understand the controls and how to manage your character properly. Demon's Souls did neither of those things. I agree that tutorials shouldn't present everything about the game on a silver platter, but they should at least give you sufficient knowledge to get started properly. The game needs a contained tutorial segment that actually goes over what needs to be known, and then the game should throw you to the wolves.

I don't think Demon's Souls was aiming for a progressional level with its tutorial: it was acting on a more spiritual level. Its objective wasn't to see the player firmly understand all of its techniques - it was to prime the player mentally for what kind of journey was ahead of them.

Case in point, the Vanguard. He ends the tutorial by killing you, in a fight beyond your level of skill against a boss fight who is truly but a sign of things to come. What kind of way to build confidence is that? It's a blow to the ego, and any notion that it'd be a simple ride. With that kind of tutorial ending, the developers are saying "This is serious. You need to find out how to survive."

For a game as atmospheric, proud and challenging as Demon's Souls, imparting this mindset is far more valuable than any amount of time spent explaining the mechanics that come naturally like blocking and stamina. For with that mindset comes the resolve to understand the game naturally.

(Though you have a point if you're speaking about the game's interface: that thing was just ridiculous.)

Or you could just kill the Vanguard in the tutorial, get a bunch of nice loot, then get Falcon Punched by the Dragon God.

So you beat the Vanguard on your first try? No guides or anything?

 

[Atheist.]

Most importantly, put a proper tutorial in the game. Yes, the game is supposed to be challenging, but throwing the player to the wolves without spending the time to teach them proper techniques is a cheap shot. I didn't even know how to use magic until I was at least 15 hours into the game because no-one bothered to explain it to me.

A lot of people say that, but i hear a lot more people enjoying the not-beeing-pampered by the game. To be honest i think so, too. I pretty much dislike the whole concept of tutorials, cause it seems to suggest that people would get frustrated or bored if they didnt get everything about a game served on a silver plate beforehand.
Exploring everything your character can do is a lot more fun and creates real connection betrween you and the pile of polygons youre playing.

Other than that:
I thought i read that they abolished classes altogether. I think it was in edge magazine where they wrote it in an interview.
So are the classes only for the demo, or do we have to pick one?
I wouldnt mind it, but it kinda confuses me.

I don't think being taught the basics of how to play is equal to pampering. Tutorials exist to allow the player to understand the controls and how to manage your character properly. Demon's Souls did neither of those things. I agree that tutorials shouldn't present everything about the game on a silver platter, but they should at least give you sufficient knowledge to get started properly. The game needs a contained tutorial segment that actually goes over what needs to be known, and then the game should throw you to the wolves.

I don't think Demon's Souls was aiming for a progressional level with its tutorial: it was acting on a more spiritual level. Its objective wasn't to see the player firmly understand all of its techniques - it was to prime the player mentally for what kind of journey was ahead of them.

Case in point, the Vanguard. He ends the tutorial by killing you, in a fight beyond your level of skill against a boss fight who is truly but a sign of things to come. What kind of way to build confidence is that? It's a blow to the ego, and any notion that it'd be a simple ride. With that kind of tutorial ending, the developers are saying "This is serious. You need to find out how to survive."

For a game as atmospheric, proud and challenging as Demon's Souls, imparting this mindset is far more valuable than any amount of time spent explaining the mechanics that come naturally like blocking and stamina. For with that mindset comes the resolve to understand the game naturally.

(Though you have a point if you're speaking about the game's interface: that thing was just ridiculous.)

Or you could just kill the Vanguard in the tutorial, get a bunch of nice loot, then get Falcon Punched by the Dragon God.

So you beat the Vanguard on your first try? No guides or anything?

Nah, I did on my second run, though.

 

[I want to leave because extra credits is gone]

I actually got 100% completion on the first game. It took a few months but I did it. I'll probably wait to get this one until after christmas.

 

[olikuj]

Well, I was thinking whether Dark Souls had anything in connection with Demon Souls since both the games had similar ethics, graphics, plot and moreover, the gameplay. Anyway, I am surprised to know that Dark Souls is not a sequel but rather a spiritual successor and having played that game, I do agree with that title since Dark Souls is far better and realistic than Demon Souls as it focuses on a sci-fi entertainment rather than a fantasy one.