EA Claims First Amendment Protections For Battlefield 3 Helicopters

JWAN

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This is nuts. How many tom clancy novels use real world tech? ALL OF THEM. how many times has he been sued for that. 0

This is a videogame, supposedly an inferior form of media so technically it should be even lower on the scale for Textron.

Besides, they might even make extra sales off of the free press.
 

ResonanceSD

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JWAN said:
This is nuts. How many tom clancy novels use real world tech? ALL OF THEM. how many times has he been sued for that. 0

This is a videogame, supposedly an inferior form of media so technically it should be even lower on the scale for Textron.

Besides, they might even make extra sales off of the free press.

Dude it's not like a gaming peripheral. What are you, nuts? No government is going to form a purchase decision (military hardware, again, not gaming peripherals) based off a videogame.

And furthermore, it's a lot easier to get details of hardware factually incorrect in a videogame. Most of Tom Clancy's stuff is just regurgitating a press briefing for an item. In a game, you actually have to model the thing realistically.
 

topgun966

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Obviously everyone posting comments here in favor of EA losing has no concept of the law. Here it is from an Attorney. Bell has no case. Even if EA loses their preemptive strike and citing 1st Amendment rights, it is the burden of Bell to prove that; A. EA intentionally violated said trademark, and B. Profited from said trademark. Since no one has ever seen at any time of an ad stating "Battlefield 3, now featuring the Bell Viper Attack Helicopter", they will win that very easily. I am a younger lawyer and I could win that my first year of law school. Now lets go WORST case scenario. Bell actually sues and goes to court. EA will just say they where operating under the general assumption based on previous games by both EA and their competitors that it was fair use. They will ask the courts for time to adjust their game, put out a patch and call the vehicles something else. Bell is just trying to get a small profit out of someone else's work...isn't that the American way?

Also, EA does NOT endorse SOPA so stop saying that. It's annoying.
 

topgun966

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Also, one more thing. IT IS A GAME!!! If you do not like it, do not buy it. Why do so many people feel the need to press their own views and politics on others. People play games like this because it is enjoyable.
 

Canadamus Prime

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What gets me is why Textron would be complaining about free product placement. Usually you have to pay a couple hundred to a couple thousand dollars to have your product placed in someone's media. EA's gone and done it for free.
 

JWAN

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ResonanceSD said:
JWAN said:
This is nuts. How many tom clancy novels use real world tech? ALL OF THEM. how many times has he been sued for that. 0

This is a videogame, supposedly an inferior form of media so technically it should be even lower on the scale for Textron.

Besides, they might even make extra sales off of the free press.

Dude it's not like a gaming peripheral. What are you, nuts? No government is going to form a purchase decision (military hardware, again, not gaming peripherals) based off a videogame.

And furthermore, it's a lot easier to get details of hardware factually incorrect in a videogame. Most of Tom Clancy's stuff is just regurgitating a press briefing for an item. In a game, you actually have to model the thing realistically.
I never said government, PMF's also buy this hardware and name recognition is name recognition. You would be surprised.
 

JWAN

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canadamus_prime said:
What gets me is why Textron would be complaining about free product placement. Usually you have to pay a couple hundred to a couple thousand dollars to have your product placed in someone's media. EA's gone and done it for free.
My point exactly. Governments arent the only organizations looking for this kinda hardware and free press is free press.
 

Sniper Team 4

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So...does that mean all the Call of Duty games--and other 'based in real life' shooters--I've played had to get copyright permission for everything? The guns alone would be insane. How do you get permission from the person who invented the AK-47? And the M-16? Or what about all the WWII weapons? And the cars? Ships? Planes? Tanks? EA has to win this, if only to head of the utter nonsense that would follow if EA lost.

Or am I missing something that makes these three helicopter-class vehicles special?
 

JWAN

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Sniper Team 4 said:
So...does that mean all the Call of Duty games--and other 'based in real life' shooters--I've played had to get copyright permission for everything? The guns alone would be insane. How do you get permission from the person who invented the AK-47? And the M-16? Or what about all the WWII weapons? And the cars? Ships? Planes? Tanks? EA has to win this, if only to head of the utter nonsense that would follow if EA lost.

Or am I missing something that makes these three helicopter-class vehicles special?
Well TBH they are new and shiny. Plus their creators are still alive to call shenanigans.

However what I don't understand why they are hating on all of the free press. It seems stupid to me. One of my main goals as a kid was to get into the military and use the things that were in games and sure as hell in a few months Im going to be training in the stuff I used to play with as a kid.

On a separate note I hope EA cleans them out a little. Id rather see all of those government checks go into the entertainment industry rather than disappearing into the vast hole that is Military Equipment R&D
 

Chicago Ted

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Thyunda said:
I'm slightly disturbed that a military manufacturer feels it should be protected by commercial laws. Surely your priorities should lie with making your products as reliable and effective as possible, rather than worrying about your copyrights being infringed?
What makes this anymore different than any other manufacturer using their legal influence to curtail something? How would this be any different than a car company putting their foot down if one of their cars were used in a game without being given the right to? Shouldn't their priorities be the same?

I'm sorry but I just don't really see the deal about this being a military manufacturer and not anything else. Sure they produce weapons, but does the difference in product really mean they should be treated the much differently?
 

Bvenged

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Wolfram01 said:
Know what bothers me the most in this article?

a first-person military combat simulation
While CoD is the complete opposite end of the scale and games Like Homefront aren't much further in the terms of realism, Battlefield is still nowhere to be found around the military simulator mark. That comment is preposterous. Though I will go out and say I prefer it to all other FPS this year, with my favourite FPS title last year year before being Reach; one of the least realistic.
 

NLS

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fix-the-spade said:
Wait, why are they discussing this now?

Since Cobras, Hueys and Ospreys (+variants) have appeared in hundreds, maybe thousands of games, why wait until now for the law suit? Surely they should go after Valve for having Ospreys Half Life and Activision for having (thosands) of Cobras, Hueys and Ospreys appear across several well known games.

Won't take long in court.
Lots of games actually have to license, and probably do so when they use real-life trademarks. One that comes to mind is "ACOG is a trademark of Trijicon" that pops up on the start screen of many FPS games. Others avoid it by using made up names, such as the Stalker games. I have no idea if Valve or Activision did their licensing school work though.
 

Thyunda

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Chicago Ted said:
Thyunda said:
I'm slightly disturbed that a military manufacturer feels it should be protected by commercial laws. Surely your priorities should lie with making your products as reliable and effective as possible, rather than worrying about your copyrights being infringed?
What makes this anymore different than any other manufacturer using their legal influence to curtail something? How would this be any different than a car company putting their foot down if one of their cars were used in a game without being given the right to? Shouldn't their priorities be the same?

I'm sorry but I just don't really see the deal about this being a military manufacturer and not anything else. Sure they produce weapons, but does the difference in product really mean they should be treated the much differently?
A car manufacturer competes with his rivals to make more comfortable, or faster cars. An arms dealer has a responsibility to ensure his weaponry kills as efficiently as possible (as in, instant deaths rather than agonising injuries) and that his vehicles keep men alive.
Cars already have safety features. We don't NEED any faster cars.
But when dealing with military vehicles? It's not a business. It's a responsibility. If somebody takes your idea for a helicopter and improves upon it, then it's for the greater good. Even if they violate your copyright.
 

Chicago Ted

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Thyunda said:
Chicago Ted said:
Thyunda said:
I'm slightly disturbed that a military manufacturer feels it should be protected by commercial laws. Surely your priorities should lie with making your products as reliable and effective as possible, rather than worrying about your copyrights being infringed?
What makes this anymore different than any other manufacturer using their legal influence to curtail something? How would this be any different than a car company putting their foot down if one of their cars were used in a game without being given the right to? Shouldn't their priorities be the same?

I'm sorry but I just don't really see the deal about this being a military manufacturer and not anything else. Sure they produce weapons, but does the difference in product really mean they should be treated the much differently?
A car manufacturer competes with his rivals to make more comfortable, or faster cars. An arms dealer has a responsibility to ensure his weaponry kills as efficiently as possible (as in, instant deaths rather than agonising injuries) and that his vehicles keep men alive.
Cars already have safety features. We don't NEED any faster cars.
But when dealing with military vehicles? It's not a business. It's a responsibility. If somebody takes your idea for a helicopter and improves upon it, then it's for the greater good. Even if they violate your copyright.
But doesn't a car manufacturer's have the same responsibility to make sure their cars are as safe as possible as well?

Arms manufacturers (I'm not going to use the word arms dealers because that is an entirely different thing), do compete with several other arms manufacturers in order to make the best product possible. They compete with each other for government contracts for the most part where they may get deals with the government to produce and supply their forces for a set amount of time or units. Because of this competition for a single contract, there still remains a high need in order for protection of their secrets.

Now, this method means that it is very profitable for arms manufacturers to create the best product possible. If these manufactures were allowed to rip off one another, there would be less innovation in their designs and therefore less quality products being produced over time. Why? Because why would you want to spent millions in R&D and several years attempting to develop a new and better product, when another manufacturer can turn around and steal your new developments and creations at the end for no cost at all?
 

deathninja

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I really hope they get shot down; it sets a dangerous precedent for circumventing licensing fees.

As it involves the first amendment, wouldn't it also mean that only American companies could avoid paying licensing fees in games? Seems horribly protectionist.
 

Thyunda

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Chicago Ted said:
Thyunda said:
Chicago Ted said:
Thyunda said:
I'm slightly disturbed that a military manufacturer feels it should be protected by commercial laws. Surely your priorities should lie with making your products as reliable and effective as possible, rather than worrying about your copyrights being infringed?
What makes this anymore different than any other manufacturer using their legal influence to curtail something? How would this be any different than a car company putting their foot down if one of their cars were used in a game without being given the right to? Shouldn't their priorities be the same?

I'm sorry but I just don't really see the deal about this being a military manufacturer and not anything else. Sure they produce weapons, but does the difference in product really mean they should be treated the much differently?
A car manufacturer competes with his rivals to make more comfortable, or faster cars. An arms dealer has a responsibility to ensure his weaponry kills as efficiently as possible (as in, instant deaths rather than agonising injuries) and that his vehicles keep men alive.
Cars already have safety features. We don't NEED any faster cars.
But when dealing with military vehicles? It's not a business. It's a responsibility. If somebody takes your idea for a helicopter and improves upon it, then it's for the greater good. Even if they violate your copyright.
But doesn't a car manufacturer's have the same responsibility to make sure their cars are as safe as possible as well?

Arms manufacturers (I'm not going to use the word arms dealers because that is an entirely different thing), do compete with several other arms manufacturers in order to make the best product possible. They compete with each other for government contracts for the most part where they may get deals with the government to produce and supply their forces for a set amount of time or units. Because of this competition for a single contract, there still remains a high need in order for protection of their secrets.

Now, this method means that it is very profitable for arms manufacturers to create the best product possible. If these manufactures were allowed to rip off one another, there would be less innovation in their designs and therefore less quality products being produced over time. Why? Because why would you want to spent millions in R&D and several years attempting to develop a new and better product, when another manufacturer can turn around and steal your new developments and creations at the end for no cost at all?
The only thing we can improve with cars is their comfort, speed and handling. Eventually new safety features will crop up, and I will be saying this exact thing about companies that copyright safety features.
A military vehicle is totally different, however. I don't believe they should be a commercial industry. If one manufacturer creates an effective attack helicopter, and another manufacturer has an improvement they could make on the design...then things could only go well for the end user. If this WAS a car manufacturer, I wouldn't care so much. But where peoples' lives are at stake, then I truly believe the industry should be in the hands of less for-profit organisations. Sure, the Government may have a thing for privatising perfectly useful public services (British Rail, thank you) but really, you don't seriously believe that a military manufacturer should be treated in the same way as a luxury corporation, do you?

Side note - yeah, I know the difference between arms manufacturer and arms dealer...I was just looking for another word than manufacturer, 'cause I get sick of writing that word.
 

risenbone

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Thyunda said:
Chicago Ted said:
Thyunda said:
Chicago Ted said:
Thyunda said:
I'm slightly disturbed that a military manufacturer feels it should be protected by commercial laws. Surely your priorities should lie with making your products as reliable and effective as possible, rather than worrying about your copyrights being infringed?
What makes this anymore different than any other manufacturer using their legal influence to curtail something? How would this be any different than a car company putting their foot down if one of their cars were used in a game without being given the right to? Shouldn't their priorities be the same?

I'm sorry but I just don't really see the deal about this being a military manufacturer and not anything else. Sure they produce weapons, but does the difference in product really mean they should be treated the much differently?
A car manufacturer competes with his rivals to make more comfortable, or faster cars. An arms dealer has a responsibility to ensure his weaponry kills as efficiently as possible (as in, instant deaths rather than agonising injuries) and that his vehicles keep men alive.
Cars already have safety features. We don't NEED any faster cars.
But when dealing with military vehicles? It's not a business. It's a responsibility. If somebody takes your idea for a helicopter and improves upon it, then it's for the greater good. Even if they violate your copyright.
But doesn't a car manufacturer's have the same responsibility to make sure their cars are as safe as possible as well?

Arms manufacturers (I'm not going to use the word arms dealers because that is an entirely different thing), do compete with several other arms manufacturers in order to make the best product possible. They compete with each other for government contracts for the most part where they may get deals with the government to produce and supply their forces for a set amount of time or units. Because of this competition for a single contract, there still remains a high need in order for protection of their secrets.

Now, this method means that it is very profitable for arms manufacturers to create the best product possible. If these manufactures were allowed to rip off one another, there would be less innovation in their designs and therefore less quality products being produced over time. Why? Because why would you want to spent millions in R&D and several years attempting to develop a new and better product, when another manufacturer can turn around and steal your new developments and creations at the end for no cost at all?
The only thing we can improve with cars is their comfort, speed and handling. Eventually new safety features will crop up, and I will be saying this exact thing about companies that copyright safety features.
A military vehicle is totally different, however. I don't believe they should be a commercial industry. If one manufacturer creates an effective attack helicopter, and another manufacturer has an improvement they could make on the design...then things could only go well for the end user. If this WAS a car manufacturer, I wouldn't care so much. But where peoples' lives are at stake, then I truly believe the industry should be in the hands of less for-profit organisations. Sure, the Government may have a thing for privatising perfectly useful public services (British Rail, thank you) but really, you don't seriously believe that a military manufacturer should be treated in the same way as a luxury corporation, do you?

Side note - yeah, I know the difference between arms manufacturer and arms dealer...I was just looking for another word than manufacturer, 'cause I get sick of writing that word.
Yes but it's the same company. Who do you think makes the military spec trucks and cars and 18 wheelers and tanks? I'll let you in on a secret it's the same companies who make the trucks and cars that we drive on the road. It's the same with the helicopters and other aircraft they don't just make military gear they make stuff thats available to the public as well. They are just as entitled to protect their copywrites and trademarks as GM, Ford, Jeep or Toyota are.

Besides which from the sounds of the article or the way I'm reading it is EA and the parent company of Bell were in negotiations as to who would get what money and EA released the game before anything was actually decided and so EA in order to try and strengthen their position in the negotiation and maybe evan not have to pay anything launched this lawsuit. This isn't Bells doing this is all on EA and Bell are the ones who have to fight it. EA is in the wrong here and are trying to screw Bell it's not Bell trying to screw over EA. So if anything you should be mad at EA for forcing this maker of military equipment into a legal battle.