EA Germany: "Origin Is Not Spyware"

[frehls]

hue

 

[ResonanceSD]

Germans fight against EA's Fourth Reich.

^ LOL =D fully agree with this. I'm willing to accept a certain level of this from valve, because they aren't dickheads. EA however, don't have anywhere NEAR the same level of gamer goodwill, and as such, can't even dream of being able to get away with this.

 

[Hank Wants Pie]

Origin is keeping track of my data on my computer?!

Wait a minute...

Is it going to develop sentient behavior?

Is it soon going to start craving for freedom outside the bonds of my hard disk?

...

Is it going to impregnate my wife?

 

[Vrach]

No surprise really. Origin was never an evil too many saw it to be, merely a victim of people who are really shitty at wording sentences in the English language. Spend 5 minutes with EA support. You'll start realising that behind the Origin EULA is not an evil mastermind, but a simple group of idiots who couldn't form an English sentence if their life depended on it.

 

[GiantRedButton]

Then why does it look for data that isn't required to run the game?

Steam does none of this. The closest it comes is the hardware survey, which is opt-in, and only collects data relavent to running games. Things like screen resolution, hardware configuration, windows version, driver versions. It doesn't care what sort of programs are run in the background, and Valve doesn't sell that data to anybody.

That simply isn't true:
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Steam looks for what programs you have too. The problem is that Origin's algorithm just indescriminately scans files when it really shouldnt.

In reality though, you have to agree to every bit of data you upload and they tell you exactly what they do.
That was mentioned on page one so if you have proven education resitant before this might not help you.
People dont have a problem with knowingly sending data if they want too.
(and you have to agree every time, if you dont no problem)
origin doesnt ask you when it scans a file before and notifys you. If you disagree with the eula you dont get to use products bought by you.
With steam you just click no once every year.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

A friend of mine told me about a person who created software to monitor Origin's activities.

He was a bit dissatisfied when he found it going through his declarations, understandably enough.

If I was a better programmer, I'd think of a way to conceal that data from Origin.
Possibly by a virtual PC setup, which would be allowed to access the system resources needed to run smoothly... but one that'd be completely empty.
I'm most likely talking crap, though =3
I have no idea whether or not that'd be doable.

By creating a virtual machine you can do exactly that, which is something I plan to do for Mass Effect 3, my brother in-law is a professional computer programmer who is also looking forward to ME3 but Not Origin, so we are going to setup VM's to block EA's illegal spying.

 

[samsonguy920]

I don't get the whole outrage... are people worried that EA is secretly pilfering people's credit card numbers and selling them on 4chan to the highest bidder?

I know we enjoy the whole, "fuck the man" mindset around this site but enough with the conspiracy theories guys. Just exactly what malicious things do people think EA is trying to pull that is worth this much rage?

I think this sums it up. People are acting like EA is being a sinister figure here, when instead they are more just behaving like beginners to the big world of the digital marketplace, which they are. This is why I don't plan to have any dealings with Origin until it has finished teething.
I just hope that in time they throw out SecuROM since it shouldn't even be necessary for those using Origin. Can anybody tell me if BF3 or other current Origin titles comes with that garbage malware? (Even if it is the toned down version of what came with Spore?)

 

[samsonguy920]

Origin is keeping track of my data on my computer?!

Wait a minute...

Is it going to develop sentient behavior?

Is it soon going to start craving for freedom outside the bonds of my hard disk?

...

Is it going to impregnate my wife?

Ask yourself, would a sentient program find your wife hot? Watch Saturn 3 [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079285/] and you may have found the answer.

 

[Aureliano]

Awesome. Why get spyware from those nasty software pirates out there when you can buy some from EA instead?

Jesus' balls, man. At least pretend that there are some risks that are exclusive to stealing software off the internet or even make up some new ones. This is like adding extra lead in designer childrens' vitamins as a bonus feature.

 

[Leopotamus]

Steam's privacy policy is essentially the same as EA's. The hardware survey is optional, the rest of the stuff in the privacy policy is not. Neither EULA says that they have access to all of your personal information. Origin's specifically states:

The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer(including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.

Just like Steam's, it is non-personally identifiable information.

Anyway, I know exactly what EA is taking from my computer. Nothing. See my post above.

Thanks for the clarification, and thanks for looking into it.

It is important to realise that the EULA is the point of contention here. The argument that 'Steam do it too' is not valid.

I am not here to argue whether or not Steam or Origin is better, I don't care. My main concern is that it is becoming 'acceptable' for companies to create applications collect information that is of no relevance to their product.

Although it doesn't make Valve saints, the big Hardware & Software surveying done is optional. If you choose to opt out, not only will the information be kept aware from 'partners', the information will never be collected. I think that is a big deal. The rest of the information that is given to them is deliberate at registration and at a minimum is a username, password, email (EA master account asks for a DOB in addition).

It needs to be acknowledged that an IP address can become identifiable information when combined with a simple timestamp. It is also of concern that EA puts your IP address as 'un-identifiable' information. I do believe Steam also take your IP addresses, but once they have resolved a general region (i.e. City/State) for demographics, the IP address itself is discarded (please correct me if i am wrong on this one).

I don't mean to split straws here, but it is the culmination of little things that make a big difference. I am in no way advocating one system over another. However, I do support the unity of the german gaming community boycotting Origin and BF3. The point can be made that we won't just stupidly agree to everything no matter how 'cool' your product might be. Maybe, then companies like EA will stop spending man hours on integrating process monitoring applications into origin, and start using their talent to make their games a more immersive satisfying experience, and maybe get rid of a few more of those bugs before launch.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Now I'm half-tempted to download and test it on an emulated PC (running Ethereal and a few other utilities), just to see how it behaves first hand.

You can't really prove the absence of something in a software, especially closed source ones. EA can say all the want, it is no proof. Also, even if origin were open source, you could only trust it if you read, understand and compile the source yourself, which nobody would do.

You can't disprove it 100% by the logic of reasonable doubt (unless you break into the client program of course), however, you can observe and measure the program's behavior while it's in operation, and you can do so without cracking one bit of data (to avoid violating copyright if that isn't your bag).

It's no different than basic heuristics for malware, really. "What is my processor doing that I don't know about, and why?"

 

[Micalas]

Two things caught my eye with this article

The furore began a few days ago...Hehe, "furore"

He should've put Fuhrer.

I never had interest in the BF series anyway so I'm not really missing out.

 

[mjc0961]

Go get 'em, Germany. Destroy EA.

I know none of us read the terms and conditions to any of the games we play, but because someone actually DID read the Origins EULA, we are having this discussion.
Its stupid to highlight any part of the EULA, people should just learn to read them instead of clicking and agreeing blindly (don't worry, I do it too)

I'd love to read them, but when they're 50 pages long (or simply feel that way, especially in the ones where you have to scroll down to the bottom before agreeing) and written in stuffy legal terms that don't make a damn bit of sense to your average Joe, how can we be expected to read them? You can either spend 10 minutes minimum trying to read it only to not understand it and then click "agree" without knowing what it says, or you can spend 5 seconds to click "agree" without knowing what it says. The end result of both is the same: you have no idea what you just agreed to. One option gets you using the software a hell of a lot quicker than the other though, so who can really blame anyone for picking that option?

 

[Torrasque]

Two things caught my eye with this article

The furore began a few days ago...Hehe, "furore"

He should've put Fuhrer.

I never had interest in the BF series anyway so I'm not really missing out.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/8/17/128949932232416520.jpg
Made even more hilarious by the fact that this happened in Germany.

Also, I played BF3 today (older bro brought it over) and even he said it sucks.
The vehicles are fun to use, but explosions in the game have a lethal radius of about 1 foot, missile lock doesn't mean a damn thing, and snipers don't always kill on the first shot in the head. Oh, and there's the whole EVERY SINGLE PERSON IS A BULLET SPONGE thing.
But I'll complain about BF3 sucking in a different thread.

 

[Torrasque]

Go get 'em, Germany. Destroy EA.

I know none of us read the terms and conditions to any of the games we play, but because someone actually DID read the Origins EULA, we are having this discussion.
Its stupid to highlight any part of the EULA, people should just learn to read them instead of clicking and agreeing blindly (don't worry, I do it too)

I'd love to read them, but when they're 50 pages long (or simply feel that way, especially in the ones where you have to scroll down to the bottom before agreeing) and written in stuffy legal terms that don't make a damn bit of sense to your average Joe, how can we be expected to read them? You can either spend 10 minutes minimum trying to read it only to not understand it and then click "agree" without knowing what it says, or you can spend 5 seconds to click "agree" without knowing what it says. The end result of both is the same: you have no idea what you just agreed to. One option gets you using the software a hell of a lot quicker than the other though, so who can really blame anyone for picking that option?

Oh I know, I am the same way, "Read these 20 pages of boring things I don't care about? Fuck that". I was merely mocking the concept of highlighting certain parts of the terms and conditions, and the fact that we SHOULD read the terms and conditions.

 

[snfonseka]

Good for German gamers. I wonder what kind of effect this will bring to the rest of the world?

 

[Metalrocks]

since i know german, i read on a german game forum about origin and the links they have posted. thats why i dint get my self BF3 and from the looks of it, i will not get my self mass effect 3 either. simply because of origin. then im better off playing modern warfare 3. at least this doesnt need origin.

 

[Bertinan]

Yeah, these videos and pictures I've are pretty convincing evidence Origin is spyware.

Except I'm pretty sure they're faked. I've done my own monitoring with Process Monitor, and the only files origin ever uses is it's own internal files, the ones in it's folder, and a few system files like dlls. However, there are quite a few files it accesses, so an easy way to fake it accessing inappropiate files is to simply change the name of your origin files. Then, origin will look like it's reading files it has no business reading.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should trust EA in anyway shape or form. But I'm saying you shouldn't trust some random dude on the internet who posts a video or screenshot.

After all, no one has EVER posted fake screenshots or videos on the internet before, huh?

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I'm using the US client. So maybe the german version really does scan all those files, I wouldn't know. I'm seriously doubting it, however.