All EULA's can be found online, on company websites. So, no. It's shown again, as a "Hey, you read this, right? Check off that you read it."Danny Ocean said:
EA Germany: "Origin Is Not Spyware"
- Thread starter Hevva
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Not like this has stopped millions of people getting Origin so they can play BF3.
I'm sure EA's already collected plenty of data.
I'm sure EA's already collected plenty of data.
The idea of the software EULA has never been challenged seriously in court. Some analysts think that if it was, it might face some serious problems as it is pretty common knowledge that people don't read it. Nor are laypeople expected to understand the legal terminology in the EULA.Frostbite3789 said:
on the ME3 forum, many people said that they canceled their pre-orders because of origin. i still wait in case EA changes something but till then, i will not get the game. so as BF3. im really better off with MW3 if i want to play a MP military shooter.
When pressed further over allegations of the EA Origin service invading the privacy of German gamers, the head of EA Germany had the following to say:
I tried to return my BF-retail, but they didn't accept it since the box was opened and the password has been used. What can I do? If I won't find a solution to delete Origin, I'm gonna use the Razor's method.
P.S. I'm not from Germany.
P.S. I'm not from Germany.
Well, here's the thing, EA. I understand you may be concerned about cheaters, but there are other, less invasive ways of determining that, since "cheating" is by its nature going to be something that alters the game- the software you created- or the data passing back and forth to and from that game.
And while I'm glad you're not downloading my cell phone photo folder, I never particularly thought you were.
However, it's absolutely none of your goddamn business whether or not I'm using iTunes. Or Steam. Or what brand and/or version of virus protection or firewall I'm using (which is the kind of aggregate information that would be very unfortunate to have fall into the hands of hackers, and no, we don't particularly take it as a given that big companies are very good at keeping such info secure any more.)
And, much as you might like it to be otherwise, it isn't even your business if I choose to use torrent or "virtual drive" software.
It confers no benefit to me to provide you with this information for free, and it gives you reams of information that I have little proof you will use in ways that will benefit me; indeed, there is more than a little suggestion that your knowing, say, what percentage of users buy your competitors' DLC is the kind of information that could come back and bite your customers in the ass.
It is not necessary for you to have this information, and your insistence that you have it before you will allow us access to games we have paid to play very much suggests that you have forgotten your job and your role.
...What standard is that, exactly? The EULA standard that "we told you somewhere deep in the mire of a ten page document in New Standard Legalese exactly how we were going to screw you, so stop complaining"? The "sure, we're taking loads of information from you, but rest assured, we're your friend, and anyone else we pass the info onto will get the parts that can be traced back to you redacted" standard? Perhaps the "We're EA, and we have such a big chunk of the entertainment software market that if we say something is industry standard, it effectively is as of the moment we put it into practice" standard?
...No, EA. I'm pretty sure if anyone else said that it was their right to get a list of every program I'm running on my computer at any time without further consent and with no clear message about how that information would be used or what for, I would have said no.
Haven't bought Battlefield 3; not going to.
I know I'm not buying the Deluxe edition of Mass Effect 3; still hoping they don't fuck up the regular version.
well how is it worlds problem that yousilverbullet1989 said:
origin is not alone in taking flak. facebook has probably taken more than anything else. steam does not sell your information as far as we know and itunes are apple, so thats natural. its jsut that origin is the latest and thus the hating is now the loudest.
Origin is a big step towards internet control. and its only natural that it would start with one of the big publisher companies. after all, they want to use that marketing on you.
on the other hand, they are too late. origin has already been worked around and now you can play your legal copy online without origin. (that doesn't work with pirated copies so dont bother)
i predict - nothing will happen. just like with online DRM, there was rage, there was warcrys and eventually everyone started using it. i feel like im the only guy still boycotting ubisoft for their DRM.
When did i say its the world's problem lol im basically saying i couldnt give a shit what it supposedly does, at the end of the day my info is all over the internet so what difference does it make in another company having it. and as for the crack yes i know theres a work around, am i going to use it? no certainly not, i dont want my BF3 account banning personally since we all know EA will pull a dick move and find a way of detecting and banning all acounts using it.
well, as long you are happy that EA takes you files, scans pretty much everything you do and shares it to other third parties in other countries without telling, then see your self happy when some one sends you some crap which might have a virus on it. or EA tells you, you should do some changes so you can play this game.
Actually, it does. You just aren't reading it correctly.Frehls said:
This is caused by vague wording. Notice that "software" and "software usage" are individually identified and identified non-redundantly.Origin EULA said:
This means EA claims the legal right not only to check up on what software you have been USING, but to look over any "software" you have on your system. I must emphasize, as similar as those terms sound, they do NOT mean the same thing.
Here's the problem: The term "software" in a legal sense is NOT LIMITED TO APPLICATIONS. It means every single bit/byte of data on your hard drive or loaded into RAM. Anything that isn't "hardware" is "software". You can't magic that definition away with reassuring words and "good intentions"; not in a legal document anyway.
If EA wants to gather information on software usage as it applies to applications/executables/programs, it's annoying and seemingly unnecessary, but it's fine. That sort of information is far less likely to be compromising for the end user. BUT EA MUST MORE CLEARLY DEFINE WHAT SORTS OF SOFTWARE THEY WANT ACCESS TO.
This would be like if I obtained a warrant to investigate/dissasemble ONE car on a used car lot (suppose it was used in a crime), and through the magic of vague wording I extended that warrant to say that I can look into/disassemble EVERY CAR on that lot.
If anything, EA should eliminate the isolated term "software" from its agreement.
This would allow EA to monitor your application usage, but without creating a legal loophole that gives them legal free reign to snoop around your entire computer.
How Origin behaves now is irrelevant; EA has worded their EULA in such a way as to create future legal entrapment (once you have purchased the games on Origin, and owned them past the return phase, you're stuck if they alter the terms); this is why consumers should be VERY wary of using Origin.
EULA has to be within the law as everyone here has stated. You cannot sign a contract enslaving yourself and your children into perpetuity because that was made illegal regardless of the right to make contracts. German privacy law is incredibly harsh, if EA had Origin act in Germany as it acted elsewhere that IS going to be a problem, and its a problem Google had to deal with when they made the final decision not to have street view on German maps because they couldn't create an efficient system for people to opt-out. Oh, and you should go watch the South Park episode on human centipad, it satirises what happens when we take clicking I agree on a EULA as an unbreakable contract. It doesn't make points so much as shows you the intuitive reasons why Common Law judges tend to rule against EULA's if the points enumerated are too confusing (notice that EA says it has only now changed the wording in the EULA so it would be clear)Kenjitsuka said:
Also, these guys went to AMAZON, not a gaming site, to complain. They went to their stores, they emailed EA, they did what consumers are supposed to do. For some, gaming is a hobby so we read everything about it. For others, its just consumer entretainment. Likely one person made the video and news agencies disseminated around causing a panic. As such, it makes sense why the majority of people who buy video games had no idea of the crap they were getting into with Origin. As such, I'm unsurprised at this reaction.
Finally, just because something illegal is in a product it does not mean that it cannot be sold. So even if it had this problem, there is no FDA type thing to check video games for illegal crap. As such, now that its out the government is going to step in. These kind of laws work on good faith... or until someone gets caught. And so, when approved for sale in Germany they did not discuss potential law breaking behaviour, so the German government did not ban it or make its citizens aware of it.
1. EULAs only matter in terms of law. Each country's law is unique and you cannot treat them the same.
2. People who buy games and Gamers aren't the same thing, it is likely there weren't aware of the issues with Origin, and those who did only complain in the theoretical but definitely wouldn't have returned the game.
3. The government only becomes aware of these things when consumers make them aware. As such, there was no 3rd party to tell them.
If our world has already declined so much that good ole' Germany, seriously, Germany of all motherlands in the world, points out what Origin is probably doing we are closer to Armageddon than I actually thought...
As a German, I really hope this goes through and EA will be fined a heavy penalty.
Ignorance doesn't protect from punishment and if they really broke German and/or EU laws with any of their EULAs or any version of Origin, they deserve to be torn a new one. EA's policy is so audacious that they totally deserve it.
Ignorance doesn't protect from punishment and if they really broke German and/or EU laws with any of their EULAs or any version of Origin, they deserve to be torn a new one. EA's policy is so audacious that they totally deserve it.
That was my understanding, yes. EA Germany is based in Köln, so the state commissioner thought he might as well get down to it - you know, what with the entire country still being miffed about all that 'bundestrojaner' business. (Read some national articles about it a few weeks ago, so apparently it's not just wishful thinking conjured up by the interwebz.)SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
That's one of the good things about our country - you can't just sign away your legal rights with a simple click of the left mouse button. What Origin does is flat-out illegal here, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if EA were forced to either modify Origin's code to disable its spyware capabilities or take it off the German market altogether.