EA: Some Gamers Just Don't Like Change

[WaterDancer]

Oh Peter! I thought you were a reasonable guy but you managed to show that your a narcissistic jerk. Besides, insulting current consumers and potential consumers is just bad business.

http://youtu.be/k_QDGdbg-QQ

 

[ElPatron]

I'm pretty sure the people complaining, including me, are "conservative" in terms of gaming.

However that is not the game-changing statement that justifies awful business practices. I gladly welcome change, if consumers also get a good deal out of it.

"I can filter out hate, vitriol, rants, it's cool to rag on EA, it's cool to rag on Zynga, it's cool to rag on Bobby Kotick, it's cool to rag on Peter Moore," he added

Despite the facepalms Moore has given me these past 5-6 years, I never had a reason to think he deserves hate.

I do now.

What a fucking coincidence, they have expansion packs that are still $40 a pop, same as they've always been.

Yeah, it was absolutely fun to criticize The Sims back then. The problem is that our selective memory seems to keep dragging it out and forgetting that a lot of expansions could also cost between $15~$30, offered more hours of gameplay than two Call of Duty games and sometimes even threw extra content into it.

 

[Sartan0]

Ok, let's keep this simple. If you don't like what EA is doing do not buy their games. Currently I am doing that with Ubisoft. I am very close to doing it with EA period. I passed on ME 3 and anything Origin. I am very close to writing them off all together.

Trust me their are plenty of other games to play. I will admit I was sad they got popcap but oh well.

 

[Nimzabaat]

"I think people are worried gaming is going in a different direction than they were used to with N64, Sega Mega Drive, PlayStation and PlayStation 2," he said. "Everything was dominated by consoles. Pretty much everything was offline. You bought the game. You sat down. And you played the game until you got tired of the game. It was all on the disc."

This is not a bad thing. I doubt he meant it as a bad thing, but I really want to just state that in the old days when you bought your game and owned everything on the disk is not a bad thing. There were plenty of bad things about games of old, but this was definitely not one of them. I miss the days where we weren't charged money for DLC that's on the damn disk. Though to be fair, it doesn't happen in much games. Still, it's a dick move.

Yeah, the difference was we never got the DLC in the first place.

Give me one good reason that having extra gameplay available for purchase is somehow worse than not being able to get that gameplay under any circumstances.

No, don't go into your fantasy about how if DLC wasn't a thing, developers would have totally included the content just for kicks, stick with reality.

We did get DLC in the "good old days". They were called patches and you didn't have to pay for them. In fact, CD Projekt still does that (yes it's my "whenever EA says something stupid I buy another copy of the Witcher 2" thing).

To be fair, day one DLC is free if you buy the game new. People just seem to love glossing over the "free" part and concentrating on the "DLC" part. Which is totally fair, in somebody's mind, I guess.

Though I don't know any gamers that are afraid of change as such, it's just the bad changes and blatant rip-offs that we don't like.

 

[NiPah]

-snip-

I have an issue because you stated something you think to be easy. When I asked you to back it up you linked to the same story 3 times. Another story about Dragon Age 2 twice, and then a story about a hacker getting people banned in Battlefield 3. This is not evidence for the claims you made.

I pulled three stories about multiple people being banned by no fault of their own from various sources to defend my point and you say it?s not evidence for my claim that it?s seemingly easy to be banned from Origin? Understand I don?t catalog this crap, I even qualified my post by saying this is purely what I could find. Origin has been out for 1 year and 2 months, if this is the rate they fuck up then I?m not going to purchase games through their online platform, which was why I said so in the first place.

It also needs to be more substantial than a loud person yelling about how they were banned. You see, and this may come as a surprise, but people like to lie on the internet. Especially when it comes to issues like this. You can see evidence of this in the fake reports of people being banned in SWTOR.

Which is why I posted from multiple sources and included Destructiod?

By all means be critical when the time comes for it. Do NOT however, make things up in order to prove a point. There are legitimate gripes to be had. This is not one of them.

I?m not making things up, you just don?t believe multiple instances of people getting banned and poor customer service does not qualify the statement:

seemingly ease at which people can be permanently banned from their game library

You?re allowed to disagree with me, just don?t pull out the ?you?re making things up? card to do so.

 

[FalloutJack]

-Yoink!-

Ma'am, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. I've been watching this little discussion and you're nitpicking without any legs to stand on. So far as I can tell, you're just treading water in place, not going anywhere and certainly not leading to a point. Now, will you please desist or do I have to hand you a glass of water?

 

[DarkSoldier84]

And this is why nothing will ever change at EA, or Activision, or any major publisher; they hear us ***** but the profits say otherwise. Even if we vote with our wallets the only people we may end up hurting are the developers under them who will be gutted and cannibalized when their games don't perform well. For lack of a better phrase they've got us by the balls, and there's not a god damned thing we can do about it. Especially when they have attitudes like this Moore fellow.

I liked what Jim had to say in this week's Jimquisition: product boycotts don't work because publishers don't see it the way consumers do. Where we see "don't buy it to protest the publisher's business tactics," the publisher sees "Consumers aren't buying it, don't make anything like that again," and the developer sees "How will I feed my family if my work isn't selling?"

If you want change, be vocal. Publishers care about PR. Be loud and vocal that you think EA's DLC policies are terrible, that Ubisoft's always-on DRM is utter tripe, and that Activision ruins creative studios while churning out uninspired Call of Duty sequels.

Electronic Arts, we do not fear change. You and your corporate peers do. Your policies put mainstream shooter mechanics into Mass Effect and are mainstreaming Dead Space 3, alienating its player base while demanding it sell five million units. I own Dead Space 1 and 2 and I will likely play Dead Space 3 but not because it's an EA game, but because I want to support Visceral and other developers who have to put up with your pants-on-head business practices to get their products into our hands.

 

[sunsetspawn]

This douchebag can go get fucked and die slowly of cancer.

Mass Effect 3 had an ending locked out unless you played multiplayer or their iOS app.

Both multiplayer and the iOS app cost extra money.

When I drop 60 dollars on a game and just want to play single player through to the end, I don't want "the good conclusion to the story" locked out without spending more money. And the worst part is that they act like they didn't fucking do it (check the Bioware boards), so my guess is that they were on shaky legal ground, and that guess is backed up by the fact that the EC changed the ending EMS requirements.

 

[Vigormortis]

I fear for the day it becomes uncool to rag on people who are damaging to an industry you love.

It's sad to say, but that day has already arrived.

I distinctly recall taking part in a discussion not long ago wherein the topic was an "appreciation" thread for big publishers like EA and Activision.

I started out by saying how much I liked those two companies years ago, before they turned eye-squintingly, hand-wringingly evil. I loved some the game franchises they helped bring into existence. I liked that they often went out of their way to help keep game studios and unique game ideas alive. They were the "cool guys", so-to-speak.

As I went on to explain, they changed. Now a days, they seem to do anything and everything they can to nickel-and-dime gamers. I mentioned how Bobby Kotick of Activision discussed raising the price of their new games by ten dollars a year until gamers stopped buying them, at which point they'd revert to the previous incremental price. Even worse, he openly admitted it wasn't to cover increasing production costs, but simply because gamers were stupid and they wanted money.

I also talked on a meeting held by the "higher ups" within EA wherein they discussed taking the concept of DLC a step further. One of their most "promising" ideas was charging players for bullets in games like Battlefield 3. They openly discussed, and even excitedly considered, actually forcing players to buy bullets and magazines within the game. If players didn't, then they couldn't shoot. They could still technically play the game online. They just couldn't do anything with it.

Anyway, I wrapped up by saying that I used to like the big publishers, but now I practically hate them. And for quite valid reasons.

But then, oh man...the plethora of responses I got from people. I was called everything from a "entitled hipster who thinks it's cool to hate things" to "a trolling asshole hell-bent on making shit up to make people mad".

I even provided direct quotes from each respective company showing that they did, in fact, say what I discussed. I was STILL called out on it and ridiculed for daring to question EA and Activision's motives.

And people give me shit for defending CD Projekt Red and Valve....

 

[viranimus]

What you've said: "I don't like the state that this industry is in, thus, we should get rid of it entirely."

Please get your over-dramatic ass out of here and let us who enjoy it do so.

As long as we are translating for each other, What you said is "I dont care how anyone else is getting screwed over, dont you dare suggest something that will interrupt my entertainment."


Absolutely not. That argument is malformed, illogical and in the same vein as a junkie getting pissy over lawmakers cracking down on heroine.

Online connectivity is the mechanism that has allowed things such as Multiplayer map /roster regurgitation, Content withheld for DLC, Online passes, DRM, real money transactions, forfeiture of consumer protections and all the rest of the garbage we should not have to endure that all stems back to the proliferation of online connectivity.

As long as we are telling things where to go, get the naive, self centered notion that its ok so long as I dont feel effected by it out of here, because obviously it does not work. Ignoring the problem because of being afraid that the solution will mean being personally inconvenienced and holding out hope that the industry will somehow self correct itself with no form of motivation to do so is irresponsible, childish and is the principle reason why the industry is in the shape that it is in today. If anything people have said nothing about it for far too long and allowed it to get entirely out of control. How does continued negligence fix the problem?

Look, I am not one for curing the disease by killing the patient. Online connected gaming absolutely does have a vital and important place in gaming,But it is crystal clear these publishers will utilize this tool only for means that will bolster their profits. Its not even a question, It is irrefutable fact. So yes, absolutely, Until we have proper protections and measures in place that stop them from manipulating the apathy and ignorance of their self centered customers, then they absolutely should not be allowed to continue to hurt all consumers. They can have it back when it can be used in a responsible way that doesnt end in hurting people or worse.

And quite frankly, pulling the plug abruptly is the best idea because it takes the self centered complacent gaming enablers, pisses them off and gives them motivation to get off their asses and fix the problem and until the problem is fixed it keeps them from screwing over all gamers with their apathetic neglect.

You might not like this solution, but last thing we need is perpetuating the problem.


Edit:
When lists such as
http://www.olganon.org/?q=forum/41
exist, justifications for peoples entertainment should not be very high on the list of priorities.

 

[FalloutJack]

Spoiler: Mod Spoiler

Juvenile response

What a fun way of insulting someone without incurring moderator wrath! Let me try, if you keep acting this way I might have to take you seriously, as it stands I may just ask you to sit down and enjoy your kool-aid while Mommy and Daddy talk.

You're out of your league, junior. And if you don't like subtlety, that's your problem. In the meantime, lemme spell it out for you: SCRAM. You're just being obnoxious.

Neither of you is being "correct" or "helpful," you're both just being disruptive. Cool it. -Mod

 

[NiPah]

snip

Maybe you should read the stories you post when trying to prove your point.
This is shotty reporting, listing a forum post as as a source: http://www.destructoid.com/ea-will-ban-you-from-games-if-someone-else-swears-at-you-217219.phtml

Forum post used for reference in that article provided ample photographic support and emails between themselves and EA's customer service. The story was covered by other sources such as:http://www.examiner.com/article/update-origin-user-on-receiving-end-of-harassment-banned but I choose the article written by Jim Sterling who is the Editor-in-Chief of Distructiod.com and a contributor to the Escapist.

More forum posts:
http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-3/1456285-banned-ea-support-banned-origin.html
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2210668

First forum post is a guy offering photographic evidence of his banning on the official EA UK customer support page. I agree the second link is rather shoddy so here's two more reports on RPS about EA banning people unfairly and EA doing little to nothing about it:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/11/ea-forum-bans-can-lock-you-out-of-games/
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/11/17/eas-unwieldy-banhammer-ea-responds/

This is, again, shotty reporting from Destructoid, no sources listed whatsoever:
http://www.destructoid.com/ea-accidentally-bans-player-from-dragon-age-ii-196272.phtml

Another article from Jim Sterling, his source is this:
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6459941/1
note reply from Bioware employee Stanley Woo:

Spoiler

Please review the EA Community Terms of Service, particularly sections #9 and #11. There are two levels of enforcement here:

1. BioWare community bans are forum-only and can be for as little as 24 hours. These bans should have no effect on your game, only your ability to use all the features of this website/community. these bans are handed out by BioWare Moderators as the result of our travels around the forum and/or issues reported by fellow community members.

2. EA Community bans come down from a different department and are the result of someone hitting the REPORT POST button. These bans can affect access to your game and/or DLC.

Because the BioWare community now operates under the same umbrella as all EA Communities, community members here have all explicitly agreed to abide by and be governed by both sets of rules. Consider it an added incentive to follow the rules you say you're going to follow.

If there are further questions or concerns, please send them to me via private message. Thank you.

End of line.

Maybe you should read better news sites. Also, a forum post is not a source. I've already explained why.

You've explained that people lie, as I've explained it's hard to come up with much better sources then people complaining on forum posts and gaming blogs. Sans one, all of the forum posts used in this conversation were from official EA customer support pages or provided photographic evidence of what occurred.

I don't believe most of the of the terrible sources you listed. Mostly because it's based entirely upon word of mouth and hearsay. I don't blindly believe what I see on the internet, which is apparently something you do.

I'm all for cynicism of information posted over the internet, but as I've stated above I believe there are ample reasons to be cautious with Origin given the provided information. Again I'm no expert on this subject, this is what I could find on a very short notice to back up a point I made previously.

If you actually proved the point you were trying to make then I wouldn't have accused you of making things up.

You believe I was just making up the fact that it seemed to be easy for people to be permanently banned from their game library? It's a personal opinion mate, unless you have (as you so wonderfully put it) ESP you couldn't know what I thought seemed like a reason... rather abstract that.

snip

Sorry Jack I had take this, but I promise I won't clutter up this thread anymore after this

 

[FalloutJack]

-Snippo-

Relax, it ain't you. Some folks can't help 'that guy', the fella that just yanks back and forth when he's not going anywhere and you've got enough wind in your sails to move Texas. Didn't even recognize the 'give a drowning man a glass of water' shtick. That was a HINT. It MEANT something. Will someone refer that guy to the 'argue till you're blue in the face' thread? I think he needs it.

 

[NiPah]

-Snippo-

Relax, it ain't you. Some folks can't help 'that guy', the fella that just yanks back and forth when he's not going anywhere and you've got enough wind in your sails to move Texas. Didn't even recognize the 'give a drowning man a glass of water' shtick. That was a HINT. It MEANT something. Will someone refer that guy to the 'argue till you're blue in the face' thread? I think he needs it.

I've always been a fan of Texas, I think I'll stay.

 

[FalloutJack]

-Snippo-

Relax, it ain't you. Some folks can't help 'that guy', the fella that just yanks back and forth when he's not going anywhere and you've got enough wind in your sails to move Texas. Didn't even recognize the 'give a drowning man a glass of water' shtick. That was a HINT. It MEANT something. Will someone refer that guy to the 'argue till you're blue in the face' thread? I think he needs it.

I've always been a fan of Texas, I think I'll stay.

Ah, you're right. Let's just blow EA away. Acceptable targets and all that.

 

[JWAN]

Change? EA never changes. They brought about as much change as... well you guys can play "Guess the President" if you want.

Change isn't the issue. The issue is the same shit, every day, for over 20 years, eventually people will get sick of it. Their issue is that they pull the same stunts, and blame their issues on others (like Valve) and expect people to keep believing the constant stream of horse shit they spew on a daily, DAILY basis.

I remember a game I had for the Sega Genesis, it was called F-22. it was difficult, the control's were as touchy as a chapped ass on a horse hair seat, but they listened to their customers about their fuckups and made necessary changes. Now they have improved the graphics and cut customer support.

They can literally KISS MY ASS.

 

[chuckd2041]

EA: Some Gamers Just Don't Like Change

You bought the game. You sat down. And you played the game until you got tired of the game. It was all on the disc.




Permalink

There wouldn't be so much hate going around if things were still this way.