Early screening of Justice League deem it 'unwatchable'

Cicada 5

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,434
318
88
Country
Nigeria
Zhukov said:
Agent_Z said:
Zhukov said:
Hahaha.

You're seriously trying to tell me that it's a bad idea to grab a gun that somebody is trying to shoot you with? Because it might accidentally go off?
So you?ve never heard of a gun accidentally firing while two people are struggling? Is this some unheard of phenomena where you come from?
Like I said, if someone is trying to deliberately shoot you then getting accidentally shot is the least of your concerns.

I notice you clipped the last sentence where I already made that point.

Zhukov said:
Deary me. The excuses were getting desperate before, now they're getting comical.
Not as comical as your attempts to play armchair warrior.
Except I used real life non-armchair examples of how even regular untrained people know to try and control the weapon when tackling armed opponents.

Here, have some more. Notice how they all go straight for the weapon instead of fucking around.








Because as we all know, strength is clearly all that matters in a fight.
If you're strong enough to throw your opponent around like a ragdoll, then yeah, it matters.

A bit of commonsense helps too. Sadly Superman didn't have any of that.
I also noticed you clipped the part about him being in pain and having his biology screwed with. Funny how you keep ignoring that little detail. Whatever satisfies your bias I guess.

As for your examples, two of them had the element of surprise and a lot of dumb luck and one is a bouncer. You're trying to treat a situation as one size fits all. Like I said, easy to play arm chair warrior when you aren't in the trenches and aren't having your biology screwed with but context means nothing to you or any of the others who want perfect Superman
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
13,768
0
41
Agent_Z said:
I also noticed you clipped the part about him being in pain and having his biology screwed with. Funny how you keep ignoring that little detail. Whatever satisfies your bias I guess.
Because I've already responded to that at least twice.

He was sufficiently recovered to ignore punches from a big dude with metal gauntlets, to throw that big dude around like a ragdoll and even fly a bit. That's recovered enough to grab the weapon and break it.

The gas is never shown to affect him mentally. He appears cognizant throughout the whole fight scene.

As for your examples, two of them had the element of surprise and a lot of dumb luck and one is a bouncer. You're trying to treat a situation as one size fits all.
Superman had the element of being ten times stronger than his nigh helpless opponent.

No dumb luck for him though. Just plenty of plain dumb.
 

Chimpzy_v1legacy

Warning! Contains bananas!
Jun 21, 2009
4,789
1
0
Guys, guys, ya'll are asking the wrong questions. It's not about whether or not Supes is a dumbass who endangers the lives of innocent people.

The real questions is: if Supes returns for Justice League, will he continue his streak of personally and voluntarily killing at least one person per movie? One in Man of Steel. Two in BvS. Three in Justice League?
 

circularlogic88

Knower of Nothing
Oct 9, 2010
292
0
0
This thread has taught me that people will go to extreme means to justify why their spandex clad hero is more betterer than your spandex clad hero.

I like Marvel movies because they have characters with characterization. They're not all particularly deep or meaningful, but I can usually get where they're coming from. The plots don't usually take big risks or deviate from their master plan. But at the end of the day I would rather watch Iron Man 2 and Thor 2 before I would ever want to watch MoS or BvS again.

DC/Warner movies at best bore me and at worst physically and mentally exhaust me with their terrible characterization plot cul de sacs and bloat.

MoS follows Clark Kent, an asshole idiot high school drop out drifter who apparently did nothing with his life up until the age of 31 where he realized he was space Jesus. Lots of punching and pointless flashbacks happen that don't pay off in the current timeline or inform us who the character of Clark Kent is apart from being incredibly obedient to his suicidal adoptive father. Lois Lane is there too because reasons.

BvS picks up later with Clark still not really feeling the whole "Superman" title but going through the motions anyways because why not? He saves Lois Lane because he can focus in on her heartbeat from half a world away but conveniently forgets this ability when it comes to finding his mother because he's still an idiot from the first movie, so he's at least written consistent from movie to movie. He doesn't like the Batman because he flagrantly disregards laws and takes justice into his own hands...completely different from what Clark does which is...flagrantly disregard laws and takes justice into his own hands...but yeah, he somehow conned his way into a job at the Daily Planet. I say conned because he neither knows who Lex Luthor is nor is the least bit suspicious that he was personally requested to cover the gala event being hosted by Lex Luthor, even less aware of the phrasing and dialogue Luthor uses when introducing a novice conman journalist to Bruce Wayne, a mega billionaire philanthropist who has no business or real reason to be speaking with Clark much less for Luthor to be commenting on them finally meeting. By the way, Batman is an idiot of a different color in this movie. Still seemingly more trained and well-seasoned in his crime fighting role but still not the least bit suspicious of Luthor's weird comments about meeting a sports columnist. There's a montage of Superman saving people with a somber put upon face. Batman casually murders a dozen or so people in a pretty entertaining car chase, which I don't mind because the movie told me that he's totally cool with branding pedophiles and pimps and having that in prison is pretty much a death sentence, so as an astute viewer I'm going to make the logical leap that he has no qualms about killing people so long as the ends justify the means. Wonder Woman shows us teaser trailers for characters that have no bearing on the movie's plot. Luthor spouts philosophical rhetoric on the nature of God and power and a hint of Randyaninsm because Snyder is a huge fan of Atlus Shrugged and the Fountainhead. Clark still has no discernible characterization. A lady dies in close proximity to a jar of Lex Luthor's urine disguised as lemonade. Superman forgets that he can tune into a person's heartbeat for the sake of fulfilling a very unfulfilling fight sequence. Batman and Clark fight because Clark doesn't like being interrupted more than once when his mother's life is on the line. Batman somehow defeats Clark more easily than he defeats Superman in the Dark Knight Returns. Lois tells Batman that Martha is Clark's mommy's name and they become friends forevermore afterwards. And yes I understand the implication that it meant that Clark was human to Batman because Batman kept looking at him as an outside alien with no humanity. That doesn't make the Martha scene any less contrived or stupid as a means to settle their differences. That's hack writing. Then Doomsday happens, Clark dies but not really because even if you've never read a comic you know he's coming back and Snyder really can't get off of his Jesus train from MoS.

Suicide Squad had no likable or relatable characters (I want to stress that relatable doesn't mean likable or sympathetic, just that I know where the character is coming from).The villains were assholes, save for maybe Diablo. I'm not counting Katana because her character begins and ends with Flagg's introduction. Hot Topic Harley was everything wrong with that character and her relationship to the Joker to the point where people post Facebook memes like, "Every Harley needs her Joker" without actually thinking about the implications of their toxic one-sided abusive relationship. The movie can't decide if it wants to rip off Avengers or GotG and fails at both. I feel like the theme was "who are the real villains here? " and the answer is everyone. Pretty much everyone.

Wonder Woman was decent. No major complaints about Diana, Steve Trevor or anything else really. She is the one character in this DCEU that has characterization. She's a good person who wants to do good. She's naive, she learns things aren't so black and white. She grows a kinship with Steve only to realize too late that she loved him. She is the only character I give a shit about because she was the only one who I could understand motives for.

Justice League isn't going to be fixed because Joss Whedon is doing reshoots or punching up dialogue with quips and snark and interpersonal interactions. The foundation of this universe is flawed because it's inhabited by unlikable assholes who looking through MoS and BvS narratives we really shouldn't be idolizing because they're all pretty much errant gods who would just as soon snap your neck as they would save you.

So yeah, DC may be more "conceptually" interesting, but they're mostly terrible in every other conceivable way from concept to execution especially to editing.

That's just like, my opinion man. I'm sure there's at least two people here who would write PhD level thesis essays on why everything I wrote was wrong and how I don't get the subtle nuances of these tire fire movies.
 

Cicada 5

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,434
318
88
Country
Nigeria
^well if that isn't the biggest example of the pot calling the kettle black I've seen on the net I don't know what is?
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

New member
Aug 2, 2015
7,915
0
0
You guys are just begging me to come back to debating this are you?

I am just gonna say, DC heroes are cooler than Marvel heroes to me even before the whole Cinematic Universe became a thing.

DC heroes look like heroes, Marvel heroes are all a bunch of mutants.

And I mostly hate most of the Marvel heroes because they all are lame looking. Wolverine has the lamest superpower of just growing claws in his hands, and Storm, apperently re-arranging someone's DNA can some how grant her the ability of weather control, and what the fuck can Rogue do, because all she can do is drain the energies of people. She's a biological weapon that needs to be quarentined and I absolutely hate Iron Man, or I hate Robert Downey Jr. playing as Iron Man.

All I liked from Marvel was Hulk and Spiderman, but now I dislike Spiderman and Hulk is all I have left and I don't like the actor playing as him.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

New member
Aug 2, 2015
7,915
0
0
But I am not gonna cut DC any slack because I am pissed at them for thier as of now obssession with Batman.

The are so focused on making or trying to make so many quality Batman things that every other Hero in the DC roster is left on the shelf collecting dust, and its entirely the fault of the Dark Knight trilogy, because of how ridiculously successful the Dark Knight movies was Batman has been into the cultural zeitgeist more than ever before. He's been getting the most video games, he's getting the most animated movies as of late, he's practically the defacto leader of the Justice League in the upcoming movie.

And it especially makes me angry as a guy that prefers Superman who should be the face of DC and not Batman and I don't give a fuck that DC stands for Detective Comics.
 

Natemans

New member
Apr 5, 2017
681
0
0
Samtemdo8 said:
You guys are just begging me to come back to debating this are you?

I am just gonna say, DC heroes are cooler than Marvel heroes to me even before the whole Cinematic Universe became a thing.

DC heroes look like heroes, Marvel heroes are all a bunch of mutants.

And I mostly hate most of the Marvel heroes because they all are lame looking. Wolverine has the lamest superpower of just growing claws in his hands, and Storm, apperently re-arranging someone's DNA can some how grant her the ability of weather control, and what the fuck can Rogue do, because all she can do is drain the energies of people. She's a biological weapon that needs to be quarentined and I absolutely hate Iron Man, or I hate Robert Downey Jr. playing as Iron Man.

All I liked from Marvel was Hulk and Spiderman, but now I dislike Spiderman and Hulk is all I have left and I don't like the actor playing as him.
All of them look like heroes. Both of them have heroes that can be seen as iconic symbols to everyone. Marvel's heroes aren't always mutants.

"Wolverine has the lamest superpower of just growing claws in his hands"
He grows claws, he is immortal, has the instincts of a wolverine animal. How is that lame? I don't give shit to Superman for being all powerful since I like both him and Wolverine.

What's wrong with Storm controlling the weather? They're called comic books! Do you think I want a dark, realistic and gritty version of Plastic Man?

Rogue is a character who is suffering from a curse that she is wanting to get over and live a normal life just like the rest of the X-Men. Yes, powers are both a blessing and a curse. Human nature is flawed. The sky is blue.

I don't get your distaste. Your reasons in your excuses seem so baseless. Actually explain instead of saying this is lame without a good explanation.
 

Natemans

New member
Apr 5, 2017
681
0
0
Samtemdo8 said:
But I am not gonna cut DC any slack because I am pissed at them for thier as of now obssession with Batman.

The are so focused on making or trying to make so many quality Batman things that every other Hero in the DC roster is left on the shelf collecting dust, and its entirely the fault of the Dark Knight trilogy, because of how ridiculously successful the Dark Knight movies was Batman has been into the cultural zeitgeist more than ever before. He's been getting the most video games, he's getting the most animated movies as of late, he's practically the defacto leader of the Justice League in the upcoming movie.

And it especially makes me angry as a guy that prefers Superman who should be the face of DC and not Batman and I don't give a fuck that DC stands for Detective Comics.
I like Batman, but I'm sick of him being the focus.

See the problem with DC is that they forgot what made the Dark Knight trilogy work. Not because of being dark or gritty; its called a good script, great characters or understanding the philosophy of the character.
 

Kenbo Slice

Respect your surroundings
Jun 7, 2010
2,699
0
0
Natemans said:
Samtemdo8 said:
You guys are just begging me to come back to debating this are you?

I am just gonna say, DC heroes are cooler than Marvel heroes to me even before the whole Cinematic Universe became a thing.

DC heroes look like heroes, Marvel heroes are all a bunch of mutants.

And I mostly hate most of the Marvel heroes because they all are lame looking. Wolverine has the lamest superpower of just growing claws in his hands, and Storm, apperently re-arranging someone's DNA can some how grant her the ability of weather control, and what the fuck can Rogue do, because all she can do is drain the energies of people. She's a biological weapon that needs to be quarentined and I absolutely hate Iron Man, or I hate Robert Downey Jr. playing as Iron Man.

All I liked from Marvel was Hulk and Spiderman, but now I dislike Spiderman and Hulk is all I have left and I don't like the actor playing as him.
All of them look like heroes. Both of them have heroes that can be seen as iconic symbols to everyone. Marvel's heroes aren't always mutants.

"Wolverine has the lamest superpower of just growing claws in his hands"
He grows claws, he is immortal, has the instincts of a wolverine animal. How is that lame? I don't give shit to Superman for being all powerful since I like both him and Wolverine.

What's wrong with Storm controlling the weather? They're called comic books! Do you think I want a dark, realistic and gritty version of Plastic Man?

Rogue is a character who is suffering from a curse that she is wanting to get over and live a normal life just like the rest of the X-Men. Yes, powers are both a blessing and a curse. Human nature is flawed. The sky is blue.

I don't get your distaste. Your reasons in your excuses seem so baseless. Actually explain instead of saying this is lame without a good explanation.
Sametemdo is literally the worst at arguing. He thinks he knows shit about comic books when he really doesn't.
 

Nigh Invulnerable

New member
Jan 5, 2009
2,500
0
0
Souplex said:
Silentpony said:
Massive recuts and edits are being undertaken. This isn't good. Suicide Squad failed miserably because of edits from the suits and now it looks like Justice League is falling to the same butcher's block.
Wrong, Suicide Squid (Intentional misspelling, not typo) was recut because it was terrible. It failed because you can't polish a turd.
What did people expect?
It was handled most of the way by the hack behind Man O' Steel, and Bateman V. Ubermensch V. Board of Education, and then the rest of the way by the guy who turned what should have been exciting superhero crossovers into a dumb action movie with terrible connective tissue.
I believe 2 gentlemen named Adam and Jamie might disagree with you
 

Rangaman

New member
Feb 28, 2016
508
0
0
Samtemdo8 said:
And I mostly hate most of the Marvel heroes because they all are lame looking. Wolverine has the lamest superpower of just growing claws in his hands, and Storm, apperently re-arranging someone's DNA can some how grant her the ability of weather control, and what the fuck can Rogue do, because all she can do is drain the energies of people. She's a biological weapon that needs to be quarentined and I absolutely hate Iron Man, or I hate Robert Downey Jr. playing as Iron Man.
You know who's really lame? Superman. He can fix literally everything and his only weakness is a green space rock that (from what I've seen) either turns him into a wimpy, easy-to-beat dipstick or kills him. That's fucking boring (and yet Snyder still had the gall to him a Mopey Dick).

Characters with limits and weaknesses are good, from a writing standpoint, because there's actually stakes. Superman has no stakes unless there's Kryptonite. The same can be said of the Martian Manhunter and fire. And having characters walk around with a stick up their arse all the time isn't fun either. It's just pretentious and irritating.

Also:

Wolverine = Adamantium skeleton, claw-like bone defects, self-healing
Storm = controls the weather, but that's powerful enough
Rogue = Her touch kills people while healing her, super strength, flight

I don't even read comics and I know that. Seriously, stop acting like you're the bastion of all comic book knowledge.

 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

New member
Aug 2, 2015
7,915
0
0
Rangaman said:
Samtemdo8 said:
And I mostly hate most of the Marvel heroes because they all are lame looking. Wolverine has the lamest superpower of just growing claws in his hands, and Storm, apperently re-arranging someone's DNA can some how grant her the ability of weather control, and what the fuck can Rogue do, because all she can do is drain the energies of people. She's a biological weapon that needs to be quarentined and I absolutely hate Iron Man, or I hate Robert Downey Jr. playing as Iron Man.
You know who's really lame? Superman. He can fix literally everything and his only weakness is a green space rock that (from what I've seen) either turns him into a wimpy, easy-to-beat dipstick or kills him. That's fucking boring (and yet Snyder still had the gall to him a Mopey Dick).

Characters with limits and weaknesses are good, from a writing standpoint, because there's actually stakes. Superman has no stakes unless there's Kryptonite. The same can be said of the Martian Manhunter and fire. And having characters walk around with a stick up their arse all the time isn't fun either. It's just pretentious and irritating.

Also:

Wolverine = Adamantium skeleton, claw-like bone defects, self-healing
Storm = controls the weather, but that's powerful enough
Rogue = Her touch kills people while healing her, super strength, flight

I don't even read comics and I know that. Seriously, stop acting like you're the bastion of all comic book knowledge.

Top 10 Superman Comic Books:

 

Natemans

New member
Apr 5, 2017
681
0
0
Samtemdo8 said:
Rangaman said:
Samtemdo8 said:
And I mostly hate most of the Marvel heroes because they all are lame looking. Wolverine has the lamest superpower of just growing claws in his hands, and Storm, apperently re-arranging someone's DNA can some how grant her the ability of weather control, and what the fuck can Rogue do, because all she can do is drain the energies of people. She's a biological weapon that needs to be quarentined and I absolutely hate Iron Man, or I hate Robert Downey Jr. playing as Iron Man.
You know who's really lame? Superman. He can fix literally everything and his only weakness is a green space rock that (from what I've seen) either turns him into a wimpy, easy-to-beat dipstick or kills him. That's fucking boring (and yet Snyder still had the gall to him a Mopey Dick).

Characters with limits and weaknesses are good, from a writing standpoint, because there's actually stakes. Superman has no stakes unless there's Kryptonite. The same can be said of the Martian Manhunter and fire. And having characters walk around with a stick up their arse all the time isn't fun either. It's just pretentious and irritating.

Also:

Wolverine = Adamantium skeleton, claw-like bone defects, self-healing
Storm = controls the weather, but that's powerful enough
Rogue = Her touch kills people while healing her, super strength, flight

I don't even read comics and I know that. Seriously, stop acting like you're the bastion of all comic book knowledge.

Top 10 Superman Comic Books:


Even I agree with this. Superman is an all-powerful hero, but he can be an influential figure to many in helping the world. This quote from Secret Origin by Geoff Johns pretty much sums up my point.

"I want you to stop looking for a great savior. Lex Luthor isn't it. I'm not it. You are. All of you are. I do what I do because I was given a gift, but all of you were given gifts, too. Use them to make each other's lives better. Show the world that Metropolis has a heart."
 

Natemans

New member
Apr 5, 2017
681
0
0
Rangaman said:
Samtemdo8 said:
And I mostly hate most of the Marvel heroes because they all are lame looking. Wolverine has the lamest superpower of just growing claws in his hands, and Storm, apperently re-arranging someone's DNA can some how grant her the ability of weather control, and what the fuck can Rogue do, because all she can do is drain the energies of people. She's a biological weapon that needs to be quarentined and I absolutely hate Iron Man, or I hate Robert Downey Jr. playing as Iron Man.
You know who's really lame? Superman. He can fix literally everything and his only weakness is a green space rock that (from what I've seen) either turns him into a wimpy, easy-to-beat dipstick or kills him. That's fucking boring (and yet Snyder still had the gall to him a Mopey Dick).

Characters with limits and weaknesses are good, from a writing standpoint, because there's actually stakes. Superman has no stakes unless there's Kryptonite. The same can be said of the Martian Manhunter and fire. And having characters walk around with a stick up their arse all the time isn't fun either. It's just pretentious and irritating.

Also:

Wolverine = Adamantium skeleton, claw-like bone defects, self-healing
Storm = controls the weather, but that's powerful enough
Rogue = Her touch kills people while healing her, super strength, flight

I don't even read comics and I know that. Seriously, stop acting like you're the bastion of all comic book knowledge.

I agree with everything except the issues on Superman and Martian Manhunter.