Easy Mode Hate Explained

[chozo_hybrid]

I thought it was just a bunch of elitists who think if you can't handle hardcore modes, then you lose your gaming privileges of something.

It being an option doesn't affect anyone except those who choose to use it, so people of the opinion that games shouldn't have them, need to seriously grow up a bit.

 

[xefaros]

Here's a STELLAR idea:Put microtransactions
If a developer has created a fair and complete game that seems too hard to players unfamiliar with said game allow them the option to buy their way out.
You paid for a game you got a full game now either learn the game as it meant to be played or buy a "starter pack"

examples:
Dark souls fire weapon+15=20$
Armor+4=7$

Lets go EA all the way...just because some people cant spend 5 more minutes

 

[Grottnikk]

I never understand this. The way I play games has no impact on you whatsoever. Why would you even care? I usually play on Normal, but I honestly can't be arsed if some guy plays on easy. I'd never know because I'd never ask. It's the same thing with cheat codes. What you do in this instance has no affect on me. If someone brags about being able to finish a video game then I think they really need to get out more. I'm not saying you're wrong that that's the reason, just that if you're right, it's pretty damned sad. I think Mr. Griffin sums it up nicely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAA1xgTTw9w


Edit: embed not working :/

 

[Auron]

I kinda relate this kind of sentiment to religious people hating on Homosexuals. I mean, it's other people doing stuff that doesn't affect you in any way(playing easy mode) but you're still mad about it. It's rather senseless, yes some works are better with difficulty, I myself like a challenge in most games but sometimes I just want to enjoy the story and put it on normal or I find the gameplay extremely repetitive(every RTS I cared enough about the lore to play the campaign EVER) and just put it on easy to check out how the story plays out. There's tons of arguments for and none against because you can just avoid it altogether if you want.



PS - Goddamnit Battletoads was hard.

 

[Barry93]

What most people don't understand is that if a game is built around an easy mode and almost everyone completing it, the hard, and even normal mode, tends to be not as good. Hard modes these days are no where near as challenging or enjoyable as they used to be. And no, it's not me. I recently played through SotC HD and Doom 3 BFG edition on the PS3 on their hard difficulties and actually got my ass kicked at times.

 

[maninahat]

So your chocking it all down to bragging rights? I think there is a bit more to it than that. People just want challenges, and many people like myself don't want the temptation of an easy mode option there, because we could so easily fall into that trap, robbing us of the sense of enjoyment and fulfillment when we finally beat and complete a hard game. Sure, I like to brag, but more so than that, I like to feel accomplished.

Your post actually pushes a lot of my buttons. If "temptation" is the reason, than the anti-easy moders (or whatever they're called) argument lacks any weight whatsoever.

 

[Smolderin]

So your chocking it all down to bragging rights? I think there is a bit more to it than that. People just want challenges, and many people like myself don't want the temptation of an easy mode option there, because we could so easily fall into that trap, robbing us of the sense of enjoyment and fulfillment when we finally beat and complete a hard game. Sure, I like to brag, but more so than that, I like to feel accomplished.

Your post actually pushes a lot of my buttons. If "temptation" is the reason, than the anti-easy moders (or whatever they're called) argument lacks any weight whatsoever.

Temptation of going for easy mode is a personal issue with me, and really only one part of the reason. I stated before in many other posts in this thread that I don't expect the game industry to cater to me personally. I was just stating what I thought, don't let your buttons get pushed just because I have this opinion.

 

[TehCookie]

So you means it's not a reaction to the casual masses are trying to force themselves into a niche genre they don't even like and demand that it must be changed to cater to them? Especially when there are plenty of other easy games to choose from while extremely difficult games are more rare.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Here is an interesting video on the Easy Mode "controversy":


And once again, let us refer to author intent. How do you think the author will react when, after many hours of playtesting, careful desing, and making sure that the game was diffult but fair (if you pay attention), people say that it is STILL too hard? He/she/it will be scratching their heads as WHY would anyone have problems with it when everything has been laid out (both in gameplay and narrative) to ensure that only the more careful and cool headed that think before they act, can enjoy the game for what it is.

It's quite simple really, and it's been answered in this thread several times alraedy. People don't refer to videogames as a developers creation or seem to care about developers intent unless they choose to believe it impacts them directly. See for a quick example the predictable uproar every time a developer announces that a previously single player game will now have a totally optional multi player mode. They don't even refer to it as "the" game. It's always "my" game. For some reason I didn't notice that trend before this thread, but it's sticking out pretty clearly to me now.

 

[Evilpigeon]

My problem with easy modes it that they often cheapen the harder difficulties. It's very rare for developers to redesign levels for different difficulty settings and this means that including an easy mode often leads to problems.

For example, You can never under any circumstances get lost, nor will you ever have to look things up outside of adventure games. Secondary puzzles and navigation are consistant on all difficulty levels and so they can never be allowed to be challenging or you'll scare off anyone who isn't looking for that level of difficulty.

The second problem I have is that most developers won't adjust the enemy you are facing to the difficulty level and will cheat to make up for easy or boring combinations of opponents. The most annoying example I can think of are Ai opponents most strategy games who get to break the rules to make up for them being stupid (see the Civ games) or any game where the enemies simply become bullet sponges on hard mode.

 

[zehydra]

No, easy games simply aren't much fun.

 

[Comocat]

I think another problem is development resources. When you consider resources if you have X years and X dollars to make a game, adding things like multiplayer to a single player campaign, or creating difficulty sliders, is going to take away development time from the original game that people liked.

 

[CCountZero]

Snip

All that said, I'll be happy to tell you why I, personally, don't want an Easy Mode in the Souls series.

It really just boils down to there being an extreme amount of easy games out there today.

Think Call of Duty on Veteran, versus Unreal Tournament on Godlike.

When, once in a blue moon, a game comes along that actually makes me feel like I could work a little harder in order to fully master it, I'm overjoyed.

But when it then gets turned into a series of games? Yeah.

Now, this is when most people tend to ask: "What does that have to do with there being an Easy mode? You could just not use it, right?".

I always answer the latter question first. Yes, I could simply stay clear of Easy mode, and my game experience would be fine.

However, for each new installment in a series, it gets increasingly likely that the gameplay will be "simplified", eventually leading up to a point where the games start being built around Easy mode, and made artificially harder, rather than being built around Hard mode, and being made artificially easier.

If you think this sounds like "Because I like it better, and all you other guys can leave my toys alone", you'd be right.

But with people like myself having so few toys to enjoy, I'll fight for them teeth and claw.

 

[chikusho]

snip

Said a person who didn't have an incling towards understanding artistic integrity.

 

[Nomanslander]

I, in the other hand, accept the hardness of a game if it what the author intended all along.

Oh... don't you even dare bring up The Overthinker (aka Moviebob) into this argument.

He acts like he speaks in site of The Big Picture, but the man is as bias and niche opinionated as any other gamer. If he'd had his way, he'd do away with all FPS games simply because he doesn't get them, and judge anyone that would speak against it as a bunch of racist homophobic dudebros who have done nothing but corrupt his medium.

And...

So you means it's not a reaction to the casual masses are trying to force themselves into a niche genre they don't even like and demand that it must be changed to cater to them? Especially when there are plenty of other easy games to choose from while extremely difficult games are more rare.

... thank you!

-_-

 

[wetfart]

I play easy mode. I'm not ashamed of it.

I want to enjoy the content I've paid for. I want to experience the story that the game is offering me. And most importantly, I want to unwind and relax; not get frustrated because I keep dying.

 

[Ranorak]

I have an honest question to the people that do not want a easy mode in Dark Souls 2.

What if, hypothetically, there was a patch released tomorrow that added a easy and a Very Hard mode to Dark Souls.
The easy mode would have the following changes;
*Enemies with shield will keep them lowered more often.
*Enemies will do less damage and chain their attacks less often.
*The Player does more damage
*The player has more charges on his Estus flask

Hardcore mode will have the following changes;
*Enemies will have more max health
*It takes more souls to level up
*Your Damage has been reduced.
*The window on backstabbing is even more narrow, as well as for parry
*The amount of health from the Estus Flask is reduced.

These changes are just some random examples I made up and shouldn't be the focus of any arguments.
The point here is that these are, relative, simple changes that (to my knowledge) can be altered by changing the values of some part of the code.

Will this be a issue to you?
The Normal mode will still be the same version you played.
Easy mode and Very Hard are both optional.
Very Hard mode gets a achievement/trophy.

How would you react to this?

 

[Vigormortis]

If there is a easy mode, and you don't like the easy, then do the common sense thing, and press hard mode. No one is forcing you to do the easy mode, It's not other people's fault if you yourself have a temptation to press easy mode, and don't like that. Let others play it the way they want to, and you will do your thing. Some people played mass effect 3 for story, and some for gameplay, that is just how it goes.

Exactly. I seriously fail to see how the inclusion of an OPTIONAL easy mode somehow ruins the hard mode. It's the dumbest complaint I've heard since the incessant whining about the Mass Effect 3 ending(s). Seriously people, get over yourselves.

Besides, if many of you are in it for the bragging rights, then consider how much more impressive your feat will be when you can tell everyone you beat Dark Souls 2 on hard mode. Especially if the average person ends up not even being able to beat easy mode.

Gamer 1 = "Man, I'm stuck at chapter whatever on easy mode. This game is so tough!"

Gamer 2 = "Oh yeah? Well I'm on new game+++ on uber-expert, look-at-the-size-of-my-penis hard mode."

Gamer 1 = "Cool! Mind telling me how to beat this boss then?"

Gamer 2 = "Pff. As if. Now get away from me you dirty 'casual'. You don't deserve to play Dark Souls. It wasn't meant for you."


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Then there are the people that claim an easy mode would make people get the "wrong impression" of the game; that these people would then think poorly of Dark Souls.

My question is: Why the hell do you care?!

Why does the opinions of other gamers in regards to Dark Souls matter at all to you? What difference does it make if the average gamer ends up not liking Dark Souls 2? Most of them didn't like Dark Souls 1 and that didn't seem to affect you, so why suddenly the concern with 2?

Guh, this whole thing is tiresome.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

A fairly common complaint on here is that higher difficulty modes tend to be poorly thought out.

Old arcade games were designed to be hard yet enteraining at the same time. If they weren't fun people wouldn't play them, but if they were easy people would just play for hours on one quarter. Home computer/console games were sold to the same crowd and were also designed to be hard.

These days games are designed for a different crowd, designed to be beatable by the majority of people who attempt them. This is of course a much bigger crowd. But for the people who want a hard game, they can just turn up a difficulty slider right? Well I'm not so sure. Most of the ways to implement this make the game less fun:

-Making enemies tougher means it takes longer to bring them down. It becomes a bit of a chore.
-Making the player more fragile also makes the player more susceptable to bullshit randomness that an ordinary player would shrug off.
-Making enemies or the overall game faster does work, but only to the extent that you have to rely on subconscious reactions rather than conscious decisions. It's a line you can cross once. Going even faster just makes the game unplayable. It's not much good on it's own for a difficulty slider.
-Putting save points further apart increases the frustration of dying. And you can only make the game really hard by putting save points hours apart.

Improved AI is something that doesn't really exist and never did. What used to happen is that the designers played the game, squashed every cheap tactic they could find and made the legitimate tactics awkward. The enemies seemed smarter because the designer knew your tricks, not because the enemies were super intelligent or anything. This is the one true way to make a game hard.

Unfortunately, this particular way of making a game harder amounts to substantially redesigning the game, which is a lot of hard work. Therefore, most developers will only do it if sales depend on it. Souls fans are, I think, legitimately worried, because once a substantial number of casual Souls fans exist, the devs will smell money and future games will be designed easy with hard mode as an afterthought, rather than designed hard with an optional easy mode. The difference being that hard mode in the former will suck.

Yeah, this has been niggling on me a lot, and finally it's been articulated into words.
Having an enemy withstand several direct headshots is not good difficulty design, it's just tedious and immersion-breaking.

 

[00slash00]

um...no. its not just the ability to brag. i never bragged about beating dark souls or demons souls. its the satisfaction i got, personally, that are why i loved those games. its a feeling i never got from games like god of war. when i play a normal game i just think (okay, on to the next game). when i beat a souls game i feel very proud of myself and like ive actually accomplished something. then i think "...i think ill play it again!"