ECA, IGDA Speak Out on Gun Violence

[RhombusHatesYou]

Why do people keep calling it a 'gun ban'? It's not as if all firearms ownership is prohibited. Shit, at last count my uncle and his eldest son had over 30 longarms between them.

Because... guns are banned unless you can obtain a permit? ^_^

That's some interesting logic people are using.

... and speaking as someone who is legally prohibited from obtaining a firearm (or getting a driving licence) because of my mental health record and my medication, all the people talking about 'the ban' should pull the hyperbole stick out of their arses and beat themselves to death with it.

 

[risenbone]

Australia never banned guns. Basicly what happened in Australia after some nut shot up a village in Tasmania was you had to show why you needed to own a gun and self defence wasn't a valid reason. Basicly to own a gun you had to prove you were a farmer (pest control), knew a farmer who would let you hunt on their property (also pest control), belonged to a shooting club (sports shooting with the additional requirement you had to participate in at least one competitive shoot a year) or a gun collector (you collected guns but you were limited in how much ammunition you could buy and there were additional storage requirements in that firing pins had to be stored in a seperate locked container from the guns and the ammunition). There were also some storage things added like guns and ammo had to be stored in seperate locked containers for everyone because the nut basicly broke into an old couples home killed them then took the guns he used in the massacre out of a cupboard and then proceeded to the village square and shot at whoever was there which just so happened to include a bus load of tourists.

Australia hasn't had a major shooting (though shootings still happen) since these laws were enacted. Violent crime in Australia still happens and I heard home invasion was one of those crimes that rose afterwards but I don't know where those numbers came from or if the economic situation in Australia at the time contributed to that rise. For those interested in the economic climate at the time Australia was just emerging from what was politically called "the recession we had to have" and entering into one of the worst droughts they had seen for some time (this in a country which typically has a 10 year drought about once a decade). So many people were down on their luck at the time which may of had something to do with people breaking into other peoples homes and trying to steal stuff evan if the home owners were there.

capture:true blue hehe I love it

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

I just want to make a quick point before we go too much farther into this debate:

The atomic bomb was invented, developed AND used before ANY sort of video game ever existed.

Thanks,

CCM

 

[sapphireofthesea]

Recent research from where? From whom? You know maybe i'm just wierd like this, but when I do something like this, usually it's accompanied by some type of source that proves i'm not making up a bunch of BS.

University's Department of Psychology & Communication <-- A good start?

This is an official, diplomatic style letter, not a random person on the net. If he is blowing wind out his backside he will directly be held accountable politically for attempting to deceive a head of state (we may never see the result of such a thing but trust me, when massive amounts of money pass hands insults like that can be very costly).
If you want the links to them, maybe..you know..look for them yourself as well? While I don't take his word as law I am inclined to at least trust he has a leg to stand on if he makes a mention of it to the VP and I am myself familiar of reports of similar work. However, I am not that invested in the topic to search for copies of original papers regarding it. If you are, Google Scholar is a fairly reliable method for finding scientific reports, however be mindful not all scientific journals are created equal.


Author is Physical Geographer Undergrad, final year on self conducted field work (Yes, this means I have about as much clue as most when it comes to psychological mumbo jumbo, hence I am not aiming to dig deeper into the matter as it is not my area of interest or knowledge; however, I do know how to do research well in theory and how to start picking the good from the bad, hence my commenting)

Have a good life and remember, always question, but do so with wisdom about what is. Seeking answers about the stars at the bottom of a well is not likely to be as useful as asking a good astronomer (and finding a good one is a chore in itself)

 

[thesilentman]

I can relax a little knowing that sanity still exists in this world. Unfortunately, the ignorant idiots will strike out again...

Now, all we need is people like them in Congress. If that happens, I'll probably be less bitter when it comes to dealing in politics...

 

[Something Amyss]

Not only that but a lot of them are NRA gun nuts like Alex Jones who look for something else to blame outside their valued high-capacity cartridges, while at the same time proudly proclaiming "1776 will commence again!".

But theyz comin to take all awr gunz

Good for them. We need well-spoken voices like the people in these organizations to be the voice of reason. Because let's face it, we as gamers don't really have a credible voice when it comes to defending our medium.

Especially since half the community is prone to freaking out and acting like children.

Violent threats, for example, are probably a poor way to dissuade people from believing we are all psychopaths.

This is for you. Take the guns away and violence increases. Enjoy.

Yeah, that increase in violence that happened in the 90s after the assault weapons ban never happened was horrible.

I'm aware, but the thing is there are other factors that contribute to a lower murder rate. New York isn't just doing well as far as murders go: New York is doing well overall. Meanwhile we have other cities like Detroit, Cleveland and LA that aren't. High levels of poverty, racially divided slums, high prevalence of street gangs and illegal drugs. Unless we exercise more control over the gun industry itself, firearms are going to keep finding their way into high demand areas like those. Legally or not.

I would point out that the states with the tightest gun control laws tend to have the fewest gun-related deaths. People always forget the practical to emphasise the hypothetical. While people say firearms will keep showing up in these areas, they actually do so a lot less in places where gun laws are strong. You bring up Detroit, but Michigan is fairly lax in its gun laws. I mean, I think that's kind of "mystery solved" there. Of course guns are going to get in if little effort is made to stop it.

 

[Killclaw Kilrathi]

Wow and I thought you couldn't get any more ignorant.

Goes to show that you didn't do more than look at the title of the link. I started the link up at 3:06 of the video which shows a news article in both england and Austrailia they banned guns and their crime rates have skyrocketed. Which is actual statistical proof over your opinionated garbage you heard from CNN.

Violence has NOT skyrocketed in Australia since the gun bans, that was a hoax. There was a falsified set of statistics that claimed so which was published by the American NRA, but the federal attourney general of the time called them out on it.

EDIT: Fixed quote issue

 

[Deathlyphil]

In fact, England's violent crime rates have, in general, been in decline since 1995. And unlike yourself, I have data from more reliable sources to back this claim up.

Here's a report from the FBI: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/tables/viortrdtab.cfm

And a chart of violent crime data as reported by the British Crime Service:

(data comes from http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs09/hosb1109chap2new.xls )

Also, an info-graphic indicating that all manner of violent crimes in both England and Wales are down from 2010/2011: http://www.mycrimeprevention.co.uk/images/crime-prevention/crime-prevention1.jpg

Violent crime peaked and fell in 1995. The only significant thing I can remember from that year, was that the Playstation 1 was launched. Man, those pre-order queues must have been hellish.

 

[Deathlyphil]

Wait, '95 was Dunblane, wasn't it?

 

[Thyunda]

Wait, '95 was Dunblane, wasn't it?

1996 was Dunblane, but that was also Scotland and not England - though I can't actually tell whether the poster was citing evidence of England or the whole United Kingdom.

 

[Deathlyphil]

Wait, '95 was Dunblane, wasn't it?

1996 was Dunblane, but that was also Scotland and not England - though I can't actually tell whether the poster was citing evidence of England or the whole United Kingdom.

I knew it was Scotland (lived in here all my life), but couldn't remember the year. Thank you.

For anyone who hasn't heard of this tragedy, a guy walked in to a school and shot about 30 children (all 5 or 6 years old, I think), and a couple of teachers before shooting himself.

The outcome of this was that all handguns were banned, and laws over shotguns and rifles were toughened. Security at schools increased, and there was a massive number of firearms handed over to the police.

 

[Cyrus Hanley]

For example, recent research shows a steam valve effect in which violent video gameplay helps release stress and aggression before it can lead to violence.

I know it's probably just a coincidence, but I really hope Daniel Greenberg just slipped in a pun in his letter to the vice president.

I'm glad these organizations are voicing their opinions. That being said, I'm fairly confident that video games aren't going to face any restrictions soon. The people that seriously blame violent video games for mass shootings are very much the minority.

Not only that but a lot of them are NRA gun nuts like Alex Jones who look for something else to blame outside their valued high-capacity cartridges, while at the same time proudly proclaiming "1776 will commence again!".

Magazines, not cartridges. A cartridge is what goes inside the magazine.

But yeah, Alex Jones is insane.

 

[Treblaine]

Wait, now the mission creep has spread to gun violence in general? I thought this was specifically for combating the threat to schools and other gatherings from lone psychotic gunmen?

The overwhelming majority of murders with guns (not that it is any less murder if a dagger or other weapon is used) are directly related to drug gangs. Crystal Meth, Crack Cocaine, Heroin and even cannabis, huge profitable markets totally unregulated put fast amounts of money in the hands of the utterly unscrupulous, they don't have cops to back up their "business" they sort it out with their guns through endless cycles of reprisal murders.

People aren't outraged by the city morgue slowly overflowing with the bodies of young men from disadvantage backgrounds killed in gang disputes. It is the combination of poverty, socio-racial segregation of communities and the lucrative drug trade that is driving the murder rate in the United States. Ban guns as they'll fire with blades. It's not like in all the strife and recriminations of Medieval Europe it was a land of peace simply because the gun hadn't been invented yet. No, they had things like the Crusades.

And I think the US government wants to be very careful accusing video games of violence as it's not like Call of Duty was the inspiration for The War on Terror, IT WAS THE OTHER WAY AROUND! They looked at what the US government is ACTUALLY doing, what is seen on the news, of them going into other countries and getting into massive bloody conflicts... oh but it's suddenly the video games problem because they depicted that.

Violence has NOT skyrocketed in Australia since the gun bans, that was a hoax. There was a falsified set of statistics that claimed so which was published by the American NRA, but the federal attourney general of the time called them out on it.

EDIT: Fixed quote issue

True, overall gun deaths have been falling... at a steady rate since 1979 with the state of gun laws an irrelevance. The rate of gun deaths was going down regardless of legislation.

But those are broad statistics, the actual people one the front line will tell a different story, consider how "gun deaths" inexplicably also include suicide by firearm, accidents and legal self-defence. Which can skew the result we are really looking for: murders overall, and how the legal status of guns changes that.

How has the ban changed the impression of actual Australian Law enforcement? Is it now like Britain where the police no longer even want guns? No. The Australian police have turned in their sidearms as unnecessary due to the effectiveness of the gun-ban in disarming murderers and reduced gun crime in general. No, they have UPGRADED their firepower from revolvers to high capacity Glocks, the very weapons they banned as unnecessary they know PETITION ARE NECESSARY!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/police-want-more-firepower/story-e6frf8qo-1111116019976

Surely what should naturally follow a gun ban is the police no longer need guns themselves. Now they say 6 shots isn't enough, they need 18-round capacity firearms. That's 3x the capacity and a heck of a lot faster effective rate-of-fire.

A revealing quote from a police officer:

"Then you use a firearm and you are scrutinised and hanged in the media.

"We need semi-auto pistols. Why are we not important enough to not have the best equipment available to protect ourselves?"

Not more important? No, you are already way higher in importance being allowed to even touch ANY sort of handgun, and you criticise being scrutinised in the same way that all other legitimate gun owners were.

And it's not like military and police are automatically trustworthy. I read in the paper this morning about the trial of a British Sailor who went on a spree killing with his issued assault rifle, only unlikely chance stopped him shooting more than 2 people. The worst lone individual killing spree (outside of wars like WWII) was committed by a police officer in South Korea:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woo_Bum-kon

Interestingly no police force in the world has used this as an example of why they should disarm themselves, even after they have disarmed the general population.

No, their response was to have better guns and firearms capability to stop spree killers sooner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre

Here the public responded with demanding LIBERAL gun laws, from how patrons who survived the rampage protested that they would have shot the killer with guns they owned specifically to protect themselves, but the law forbade them carrying them... a law that's utterly pointless when the perpetrator is already resigned to commit murder and suicide, what would any legal deterrent of carrying a gun concealed be? The "no gun zone" doesn't affect precisely the people it is designed to affect, spree murderers.

 

[punipunipyo]

"While video game sales have increased, violent crime has been steadily decreasing according to FBI statistics. In 2011, video game sales increased to over $27 billion dollars and violent crimes nationwide decreased 3.8% from 2010. Since 2002, violent crime has decreased 15.5%."

Wait, so "Video Game Retail down 22% in 2012"..(an other Escapist article)... does that also mean that we are looking at a in-coming higher violent crime? DUD! WE BETTER GO BUY SOME GAMES!

I think the only problem with Gaming today is the language issue, too many game stuck F-Bombs, and other variations of Profanity.. these actually DO effect us, after playing Bullet Storm, I find my self auto-Profanity more often, because I was exposed to that kind of language too much, I think we need to have more decency in our games other than just F-away...

 

[Strazdas]

Wait, '95 was Dunblane, wasn't it?

1996 was Dunblane, but that was also Scotland and not England - though I can't actually tell whether the poster was citing evidence of England or the whole United Kingdom.

while i understand its bad to do so, most people outside United Kingdom actually just use "england" for short term for UK. England is even what we put officially on maps here. so its very likely he jut meant UK.