ECA Responds to Accusations of Wrongdoing

Greg Tito

PR for Dungeons & Dragons
Sep 29, 2005
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ECA Responds to Accusations of Wrongdoing



One would think that an organization which exists to protect consumers like the ECA wouldn't try to scam its members, but that's exactly what a vocal minority is claiming.

A post at The Consumerist [http://consumerist.com/2009/12/eca-tries-to-prevent-members-from-canceling.html] said that the Entertainment Consumers Association has made it nearly impossible to cancel membership with the organization. The accusation was that the ECA website no longer offered the ability to turn off automatically renewing a membership and that this was done in response to members being frustrated with the lack of Amazon discounts which were promised to new members. Also, the ECA has removed from the website the phone number previously used to cancel membership. The only way to currently opt out of the organization is to write a letter to ECA and wait 30 days. ECA president, Hal Halpin, responded with a statement today which did not openly deny the accusations but provided some compelling reasons for the actions of the advocacy group.

The ECA offered a promotion for a free trial membership linked to an article Halpin wrote this September which promised, among other discounts, a 10% discount at Amazon for all videogames. Many new members flocked to the site but were disappointed to find out that the Amazon discount was discontinued. One member wondered if the recent inability to end memberships was added in response to a rash of cancellations of unhappy members.

According to Hal Halpin, it was some of these new members which spoiled the Amazon discount. "These new members were coming from websites and forums that were solely promoting the coupon code, sans important reading," he said. "Within a relatively short period of time, some of the new members found an exploit in one of our partners' promotional codes and spread the word." The partner, which may or may not have been Amazon, decided to terminate the offer.

He admitted that auto-renewing membership is a part of their business model and was unlikely to change. Halpin added that the need to cancel by mail was "due to a small but active number of members who were repeatedly joining, leaving and re-joining the organization - in an effort to exploit our member benefits and unduly take advantage of our partners' generous offers." The ECA had to deal with these exploiters contacting the Better Business Bureau claiming that they were the victims of fraud, which was "in effect committing fraud themselves."

The ECA states that its mission is to empower consumers of interactive entertainment to effect change and that it "opposes legislative efforts to unconstitutionally restrict access to video games." The ECA is the publisher of GamePolitics.com, a respected voice in the game community.

Even though the ECA may have had good reasons for restricting consumer's control over their membership, the policy doesn't seem to be in line with the organization's philosophy.

Source: The Consumerist [http://consumerist.com/2009/12/eca-tries-to-prevent-members-from-canceling.html]

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Onyx Oblivion

Borderlands Addict. Again.
Sep 9, 2008
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Well, that's business. People will do anything to save money, and the business will do everything to make it.
 

Kajin

This Title Will Be Gone Soon
Apr 13, 2008
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I can see why they'd do that. Still, though, I'd have my card cancelled. I can't be billed anymore and I can just get a new one free of charge in all less then an hour.
 

RvLeshrac

This is a Forum Title.
Oct 2, 2008
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While that's true, the ECA's response is as anti-consumer as anything done by the companies they claim to be representing the consumers against. Had they simply come out and said what they were doing and why, rather than foster ill-will, this never would have made it onto all of the major consumer and gaming news sites.

Here's a hint to the ECA: Don't try to screw with gamers. We're smarter than you, and we're *FAR* better publicists than you. If you're honest with us, most of us will respect you. If you're not honest and open with us, then we don't really care what your motivation was. What the hell good is a "consumer association" if it screws with the very consumers it claims to represent?
 

cobra_ky

New member
Nov 20, 2008
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Greg Tito said:
He admitted that auto-renewing membership is a part of their business model and was unlikely to change. Halpin added that the need to cancel by mail was "due to a small but active number of members who were repeatedly joining, leaving and re-joining the organization - in an effort to exploit our member benefits and unduly take advantage of our partners' generous offers." The ECA had to deal with these exploiters contacting the Better Business Bureau claiming that they were the victims of fraud, which was "in effect committing fraud themselves."
i didn't realize an advocacy group needed a business plan, but w/e. there's plenty of other ways to combat fraud without screwing over your honest members.

Don't give out the membership benefits until they pay the dues for a month or so. Or just don't bribe people to join your organization in the first place.
 

Jared

The British Paladin
Jul 14, 2009
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Now...that is shocking.

Goes to prove cant trust any company out there, at all.
 

Danpascooch

Zombie Specialist
Apr 16, 2009
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Write a letter and wait 30 days to cancel!?

Ok, they shouldn't be featured in the news, they should be motherF--king CARPET BOMBED!

I mean what the hell!?

That is just not alright
 

asinann

New member
Apr 28, 2008
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Just report it to the bank as fraud, in most states if you can sign up online you must be able to cancel either online or over the phone.
 

CD-R

New member
Mar 1, 2009
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So you could just join the ECA for free and get the discount without having to pay the membership fee first? Now that's just stupid.
 

Low Key

New member
May 7, 2009
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I guess the ECA should have done something different instead of offering a multi-purpose code. It's their own fault for not having the foresight to see something like that happening, which pretty much happens with all coupon codes on the net.

In any case, if the membership fee is assessed yearly, people just need to suck it up and send in the cancellation request. It's not like they will be charged anymore money because they have to wait 30 days. How long does it take to write a letter and put it in the mailbox? Like two minutes?
 

Vern

New member
Sep 19, 2008
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cobra_ky said:
Or just don't bribe people to join your organization in the first place.
That, right there. They ran the promotion, people took advantage of it, now both sides look like douchebags.
 

Jou-LotD

New member
Jul 26, 2009
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Vern said:
cobra_ky said:
Or just don't bribe people to join your organization in the first place.
That, right there. They ran the promotion, people took advantage of it, now both sides look like douchebags.
It is funny they targetted the people who signed up on their site. Once the code is out and gone, reacting like this is only going to destroy their current userbase. Their reaction was like adding DRM with an update, rather than doing it properly in the first place. Kinda funny.
 

samsonguy920

New member
Mar 24, 2009
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Tenmar said:
I really love the outrage from these posters here. It seems they didn't read the article all the way through and pick up on the part where people were abusing the ECA's membership benefits which caused the sharp rise of paid memberships and at the same time canceling memberships.

When fraud happens on such a massive scale it is going to be hard to implement a new system that will allow members to cancel their yearly membership.

The current solution is perfectly fine and is accessible to everyone. Everyone in the United States can use the US postal service and mail a letter to cancel their yearly membership. Is it going to be permanent? Very doubtful.

Implementing a new electronic system that will allow members to cancel their membership online is a lot more complicated and will take time to build a new system to prevent fraud that was committed by people who wanted to abuse the ECA benefits.

The ECA is a victim and being the victim caused this current news story to exist.
Yes the ECA was a victim here, but they were also asking for it when they didn't implement any insight, then treated all their members like drooling retards and criminals by not releasing a statement on the reason for the changes, as well as going full bore to making quitting the membership non-user friendly. They basically behaved just like a games publisher, maybe even worse than one, which the ECA claims to work to keep behaved in defense of consumers. Were they right to take these steps? Sure, it is their choice to, unless it was an action that should have been up to the paying members. Could they have done more in defense of their members? YES. For one they shouldn't have reduced themselves to petty beggars by even implementing this offer. All it was was a petty attempt at raising funds, which turned around and bit them in the ass. If they wanted to show appreciation to members, then they should have offered such a promotion to long time members, and make it clear that such loyalty will always be held in such esteem. But buying even first time memberships with these offers was dumb, hipocritical, and flawed, basically reducing the message that the ECA is supposed to be making.
I imagine ECA has done a lot to keep computer gaming as well as other media we enjoy strong and out there, keeping it available to all of us. But this incident will be long and hard to forget, and I am hoping that the idiots who thought this promotion up are being given positions better suited to their skills, for the members' sake.
 

DarkSaber

New member
Dec 22, 2007
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Tenmar said:
I really love the outrage from these posters here. It seems they didn't read the article all the way through and pick up on the part where people were abusing the ECA's membership benefits which caused the sharp rise of paid memberships and at the same time canceling memberships.

When fraud happens on such a massive scale it is going to be hard to implement a new system that will allow members to cancel their yearly membership.

The current solution is perfectly fine and is accessible to everyone. Everyone in the United States can use the US postal service and mail a letter to cancel their yearly membership. Is it going to be permanent? Very doubtful.

Implementing a new electronic system that will allow members to cancel their membership online is a lot more complicated and will take time to build a new system to prevent fraud that was committed by people who wanted to abuse the ECA benefits.

The ECA is a victim and being the victim caused this current news story to exist.
Seems to ME that what Hal is saying is VERY similar to when software companies say "Anyone who complains about DRM is probably a pirate anyway, so don't listen to them."
 

Phokal

New member
Oct 12, 2009
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Besides what everyone else has already mentioned (that another solution would be better, they should have been honest, they should have sent an organization wide email telling us about the change), the one thing that doesn't quite add up to me:

"If the amazon codes are now gone, why would they still have people mass joining and quitting?"

I could see people taking advantage of the amazon codes this way, but many of the other codes they offer are not nearly as compelling. I don't think this is an issue they are still facing since they discontinued amazon a couple months ago. All this is preventing now are people leaving.

I originally signed up for the amazon code, but I didn't abuse it; and I was going to stay a member an extra year anyway for the hell of it. But now I'm not nearly as certain.

I appreciate the company's concerns, but making my life more difficult when I was a legit member/customer of their business just leaves the same bad taste in my mouth that most DRM leaves.
 

TJ79

New member
Dec 4, 2009
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Tenmar said:
CD-R said:
So you could just join the ECA for free and get the discount without having to pay the membership fee first? Now that's just stupid.
No that would be ridiculous. You have to pay for the yearly membership to get the discount code. People who bought memberships would sell the Amazon discount code for profit when the rules state that it is meant for the individual only.
If you are going to defend the ECA here you should probably get your facts straight first.

First, Hal Halpin wrote an article for Game Informer and GAVE AWAY FREE MEMBERSHIP CODES for the ECA in that article. He also ADVERTISED the amazon.com benefit for being member. So yes people could join for free and get the member benefits.

People also got free membership codes at PAX. And of note Penny Arcade has already distanced themselves from the ECA.

Second, you fail to mention the ECA's shady TOS changes where they failed to notify ANYONE of these changes such as the only way to cancel a membership is by snail mail. You also did not state that in those same terms they specifically state that they cannot guarantee processing your request unless you PAY for certification of mail and Signature on delivery.

You also did not mention that in their TOS they say that if a credit card is expired they will CHANGE THE EXPIRATION DATE (without your consent) so that the account can be charged further.

This is just the tip of the iceberg people.

If you really want to know more I will direct you here http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244949

Get your facts straight before you start shilling. If you can't see any faults here there is something very wrong with you.