The discussion isn't a bad thing, but the tone is. No stupid, misogynistic person is going to be convinced to change their opinion by being called a stupid misogynist. It's a painfully slow process, but since we've come this far I think we can go the last few strides eventually.
Editor's Note: La Luna
- Thread starter Susan Arendt
- Start date
So many filthy jokes to choose from.Indigo_Dingo post=6.70327.693319 said:How the hell would you know? How do you manage to smell your own hair?Matthew Alexander post=6.70327.693284 said:I don't care what you say, my hair smells better
Susan, stop telling us that there's nothing new about girls gaming. We all know that girls game. There's nothing new about girls gaming.
As a leader in the PMS Clan, the worldest largest all-female gaming clan, I can tell you that the issue of girls in gaming is something we have worked very diligently to address. I had considered writing an article for this issue on girls in gaming, but frankly, am tired of hearing the 'get over your gender' comments. (Exactly what I predicted would show up here... and did.)
The reality is that girls in gaming are typically harassed, regardless of how they choose to play, or are viewed as rare sightings in gaming. If you are so evolved that the issue of girls in gaming is a moot point and you don't see the big deal, then thank you - your perspective is applauded and you are the type of person we look to game and network with. However, diminishing the fact that it is still an issue with a lot of people does not provide an educated viewpoint of the situation and it takes away from the fact that we work to market and educate others who do not share your opinion. We don't claim that these situations are unique to girls in gaming, it is just the piece we are currently interested in working on.
The PMS Clan (snicker all you want but you can't argue with the marketing aspect of it) stands for Pandora's Mighty Soldiers, but formerly, in the early 2000's used to stand for Psychotic Men Slayers. The name was changed to follow a mythos that the clan leveraged that would promote community and friendly, positive environments for girl gamers.
We have over 800 girls in the clan with several hundred that compete actively as well as a brother clan that supports women in gaming. Our subscriber base is over 8000 and we recently partnered with NVision to attempt to break the world's record of girls in attendance at one LAN. You can visit our website, www.pmsclan.com to see the type of work that we do and who sponsors us.
I personally was a corporate executive who competes as a member of the clan (currently in CoD4 PC - feel free to add me to xfire if you want a match) who quit to pursue a Masters in Entertainment Technology at Carnegie Mellon. The ratio of guys to girls is shifting and depends vastly on the market you are looking at, but the rise in gamers is in the over 30 female crowd with females playing (and making the buying decisions) on more casual games. Personally, I will stick with hard-core FPS and tournament play, but I do enjoy Puzzle Quest from time to time.
The reality is that girls in gaming are typically harassed, regardless of how they choose to play, or are viewed as rare sightings in gaming. If you are so evolved that the issue of girls in gaming is a moot point and you don't see the big deal, then thank you - your perspective is applauded and you are the type of person we look to game and network with. However, diminishing the fact that it is still an issue with a lot of people does not provide an educated viewpoint of the situation and it takes away from the fact that we work to market and educate others who do not share your opinion. We don't claim that these situations are unique to girls in gaming, it is just the piece we are currently interested in working on.
The PMS Clan (snicker all you want but you can't argue with the marketing aspect of it) stands for Pandora's Mighty Soldiers, but formerly, in the early 2000's used to stand for Psychotic Men Slayers. The name was changed to follow a mythos that the clan leveraged that would promote community and friendly, positive environments for girl gamers.
We have over 800 girls in the clan with several hundred that compete actively as well as a brother clan that supports women in gaming. Our subscriber base is over 8000 and we recently partnered with NVision to attempt to break the world's record of girls in attendance at one LAN. You can visit our website, www.pmsclan.com to see the type of work that we do and who sponsors us.
I personally was a corporate executive who competes as a member of the clan (currently in CoD4 PC - feel free to add me to xfire if you want a match) who quit to pursue a Masters in Entertainment Technology at Carnegie Mellon. The ratio of guys to girls is shifting and depends vastly on the market you are looking at, but the rise in gamers is in the over 30 female crowd with females playing (and making the buying decisions) on more casual games. Personally, I will stick with hard-core FPS and tournament play, but I do enjoy Puzzle Quest from time to time.
Would this mean the male version of the clan would be something like "Shaving Rash".
Seriously, having a self-effacing clan name does sort of accentuate the boundaries somewhat doesn't it?
Well, the boundaries existed before the naming was created. Your suggestion would also be relevant for the National Center for Men.
Marketing names are chosen to represent what they stand for typically, and while I personally might have chosen a different name, it does have brand recognition and incites conversation. Frankly, it makes it easier to separate those who are jesting with the girls from those who are disrepecting them.
And to answer your question, the men's clan is H2O - for water - also part of the mythos that we explain to our members at their orientation where we walk through a 45 page handbook for PMS|H2O Inc.
Marketing names are chosen to represent what they stand for typically, and while I personally might have chosen a different name, it does have brand recognition and incites conversation. Frankly, it makes it easier to separate those who are jesting with the girls from those who are disrepecting them.
And to answer your question, the men's clan is H2O - for water - also part of the mythos that we explain to our members at their orientation where we walk through a 45 page handbook for PMS|H2O Inc.
No - they were never the waterboys. (Now if some people referred to them as that, that is a different thing, but they were never denoted as such by us. We appreciate their support.)
Our Rockband plays under Moody Water... otherwise, I would recommend Shaving Rash to them... ;D
Our Rockband plays under Moody Water... otherwise, I would recommend Shaving Rash to them... ;D
I bet you and I would probably get along irl and your second paragraph starts with a great point. And if you and I were creating the gaming phenomenom, we could start with that statement as a mission and groundwork..... but the reality is reality...
I would say the 'get over your gender' comment is better targeted at the ignorant and intolerant people as well as the pre-teens whose parents aren't teaching them better - rather than targeting it at the girls who address the issue. Rarely does the issue of being a girl gamer arise within our gaming community - people are just gamers. And that is the community we created. But venture outside it, and you can't imagine the conduct.
I would support the obese nerds who are getting picked on just as much as the girl only clan, Vietnamese only clan, or the 'no jerks with uneducated perspectives' clan.
Regardless, our incorporated clans are open to all races, genders, sexual preferences, etc. The only difference is the girls wear the PMS tags and the guys wear H2O - and I have already gone over the reason for why.
I would caution you on saying 'that minorities in general tend to promote and behave along the lines of self-exclusion' and that they are voluntarily exclusive. There really isn't a right or wrong on the opinion if you study the why, the psychology of how those situations came to be, and even the positive changes as a result of them. There are great examples and not so great examples of this 'voluntary exclusion'. Again - it just is.
It is typically the extremists to a cause that cause the reaction you have, so I can assure you, I am an equal opportunity assassin with my frags and the only exclusivity I employ is the manner in which you conduct yourself in my presence of the presence of my team members (both male and female).
(Though I would pick pink frag grenades if the devs gave me the option -- maybe blue, but definitely pink.)
xfire: ticorah - come play with us anytime...
I would say the 'get over your gender' comment is better targeted at the ignorant and intolerant people as well as the pre-teens whose parents aren't teaching them better - rather than targeting it at the girls who address the issue. Rarely does the issue of being a girl gamer arise within our gaming community - people are just gamers. And that is the community we created. But venture outside it, and you can't imagine the conduct.
I would support the obese nerds who are getting picked on just as much as the girl only clan, Vietnamese only clan, or the 'no jerks with uneducated perspectives' clan.
Regardless, our incorporated clans are open to all races, genders, sexual preferences, etc. The only difference is the girls wear the PMS tags and the guys wear H2O - and I have already gone over the reason for why.
I would caution you on saying 'that minorities in general tend to promote and behave along the lines of self-exclusion' and that they are voluntarily exclusive. There really isn't a right or wrong on the opinion if you study the why, the psychology of how those situations came to be, and even the positive changes as a result of them. There are great examples and not so great examples of this 'voluntary exclusion'. Again - it just is.
It is typically the extremists to a cause that cause the reaction you have, so I can assure you, I am an equal opportunity assassin with my frags and the only exclusivity I employ is the manner in which you conduct yourself in my presence of the presence of my team members (both male and female).
(Though I would pick pink frag grenades if the devs gave me the option -- maybe blue, but definitely pink.)
xfire: ticorah - come play with us anytime...
lol - you just contradicted yourself...?kanada514 post=6.70327.696054 said:
Of course it is hard to convince a large 'majority' to change - and that 'there might be a reason' for their thinking.
That's the point of the 'voluntary exclusiveness' you cited....
THAT is the whole issue...
Where do I find this clan, so that I may sign up?Ticorah post=6.70327.696246 said:
I played a couple of PMS members once in Halo 2 (and got pounded into the dirt...) and with the Coyote Cavegirls a couple of times and found that one's peeing stance isn't that big an issue in gameplay. Anyone making a big to-do about gender in games is part of the problem... and that most especially includes the "get over it" crowd applying individual acts of a few female jerks to smear half the human race.
I don't care if my teammates or opponents are male or female; I just care if they're decent folks or jerks. And both those come in both genders, in my experience.
-- Steve
I have to say I generally dread coming up against girls online because everytime I have theve either been able to snipe the wotsits off a small flea from 5 miles, or i've have a shotgun in my face when I spawn. But regardless of gender I'l try my hardest to hunt them down and give a fairly (usually fairly bad) attempt at repaying my trip to the killcam screen.
However I really didn't think there were many people left saying *a girl on xbox live (or where ever you generally hear people talking) what is this tomfoolery!?* but good luck on educating the few left... suggested tools are a headset, a shotgun and a large sniper rifle because I think that may be the only way to get through to them.
However I really didn't think there were many people left saying *a girl on xbox live (or where ever you generally hear people talking) what is this tomfoolery!?* but good luck on educating the few left... suggested tools are a headset, a shotgun and a large sniper rifle because I think that may be the only way to get through to them.