Eidos Founder: Square Enix Needs to Learn How to Sell Games

james.sponge

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Blitzwing said:
james.sponge said:
Blitzwing said:
KeyMaster45 said:
investments that are made that should not have been
Like letting Nomura shit-can FF13 Versus 85% into production and letting him take so long rebuilding it from the ground up that they were forced to turn it into FF15; or hastily building a shit MMO with an astronmical budget and then deciding after it falls flat on its face to rebuild it from the ground up (I'm sensing a pattern here); or how about making not one but two sequels to FF13 to keep the game alive long enough for Versus to come out; or investing money into so many goddamned Kingdom Hearts spin-off games that you'll either have to ignore 90% of what went on in them come KH3 or bloat KH3 with so much loose end wrapping up that it collapses under the dead weight that's been piled on to the franchise?.

and things that they didn't invest in but should have," he said.
Like not laughing in Nomura's face when he asked to shit-can all the work already done on FF13 Versus and instead spend the money he wasted rebuilding the damn game to have him work on KH3; or hiring a surgeon to cut out the cancerous tumor in the company called Nomura that has been the root of a majority of your financial woes; or maybe just firing Nomura and using all the money he's wasted to hire someone who's head isn't shoved up their own artistic ass?
I don?t see how that?s a bad thing. If the game doesn?t meet his standards why shouldn?t it be torn down and rebuilt? it is his game after-all.
It is a bad thing because company loses money and resources on badly designed projects that do not bring any profit. Nomura is a good character designer but he is atrocious at directing games, FFverus13 history is a good example of that.
And what about Kingdom Hearts? He was the director of all of those games and they?re one of Squares most popular series.
I liked Kingdom Hearts back in the day but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced it just prayed on our nostalgia. I never cared about Sora and really hoped Goofy and Donald would die and let me kill everything alone ;) but then I loved seeing Cloud, Squall and Sephiroth.

As for the game itself KH was just a meaningless grind with Disney, Square characters that emphasized spectacle over substance (mentality observed in all of Nomura's games) some people may still like that but personally I regret spending my money on it.

And indeed those games were popular but we will never know how much royalties SE had to pay for all those Disney characters. The truth may be the series was barely profitable, but as I said we will never know.
 

Something Amyss

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rednightmare said:
Sure, because spending so much money making the games, that you need to sell the same number of copies Call of Duty did, had nothing to do with it.

Personally, I think they need to look at their spendings, not their sales figures.
I doubt it was the cost of these games. There's nothing suggesting they were extraordinarily expensive. The problem is you have a failing company or a company on hard times which put unrealistic expectations on a few titles to effectively save the day. Surprise! It didn't work.

Just the fact that he thinks they could have sold more shows how out of touch they are, though.
 

Vivi22

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Can someone send this guy a link to Jim's video dealing with exactly this situation and why it's not the sales that are the problem but the budgets? Because that really says all that needs to be said.

This guy is falling victim to the typical AAA development trap of thinking that if you spend enough money making and marketing it, the sales will just happen. I've really got little respect for the people who are so ineffective at managing their business that they believe that. No matter what you do, you can't control sales, but you can control costs. Manage the variables you can actually manage instead of just wishing the ones you can't control were better.
 

freedash22

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Unrealistic goals and overspending on some titles (Final Fantasy) is what is hurting them badly in my opinion. The recent layoffs at Eidos are one of their biggest dumbass moves indicating that those up top are not right in the head. Why would you do that!? Most of their recent releases were great games! Deus Ex HR, Tomb Raider and Hitman Absolution were some of the best selling games of their respective franchises!

OH THEY DIDN'T SELL 5 MILLION COPIES EACH!?
 

Covarr

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May 29, 2009
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Ugh, this again? These games sold well. If you still lost money on them, they were budgeted too high. Tomb Raider could've been the best game ever made, and had the best marketing in history, and it still wouldn't have sold to expectations. That does not mean S-E doesn't know how to sell games, it means they don't understand how to use trends to develop realistic budgets and sales expectations.

P.S. Thanks
 

Quiotu

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james.sponge said:
I liked Kingdom Hearts back in the day but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced it just prayed on our nostalgia. I never cared about Sora and really hoped Goofy and Donald would die and let me kill everything alone ;) but then I loved seeing Cloud, Squall and Sephiroth.

As for the game itself KH was just a meaningless grind with Disney, Square characters that emphasized spectacle over substance (mentality observed in all of Nomura's games) some people may still like that but personally I regret spending my money on it.

And indeed those games were popular but we will never know how much royalties SE had to pay for all those Disney characters. The truth may be the series was barely profitable, but as I said we will never know.
And I think this is why Nomura should slow down and go back to what he's actually good at. Nomura is and always has been a character designer. He's an artist, and the problem now is he's an artist with creative control over most of Squeenix's AAA franchises with a blank check. That's... not good. He's becoming the George Lucas of Square, and they desperately need to give him a handler that cracks the whip when his lofty goals start becoming delusional or just flat-out bad.

freedash22 said:
Unrealistic goals and overspending on some titles (Final Fantasy) is what is hurting them badly in my opinion. The recent layoffs at Eidos are one of their biggest dumbass moves indicating that those up top are not right in the head. Why would you do that!? Most of their recent releases were great games! Deus Ex HR, Tomb Raider and Hitman Absolution were some of the best selling games of their respective franchises!

OH THEY DIDN'T SELL 5 MILLION COPIES EACH!?
And this is the other problem with Square Enix now. Look, it's great that Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are giant AAA behemoths that span multiple regions and sell millions. Problem is that Eidos are selling franchises that aren't so international... Hitman, Tomb Raider, Deus Ex... those are very Western games, and don't sell that great in Asia's demographic. Expecting Eidos' games to sell as well as Square's is laughable and a bit sad.

Square, know your developer's audience, and for god's sake curb your expectations. Not every developer can be you, alright?
 

bjj hero

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It probably doesnt help that sqeenix hasnt released a title id want to buy since vagrant story. The FF sequels of sequels thing just seems desperate.

Heres another ff with 15 minute cut scenes, pre puberty boys and little girls in suggestive outfits doesnt sell well in most of the world.
 

shiajun

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I'm actually worried all this economic distress at SE will dismatle the studios that are actually working. Their non Japanese stduios have been putting out quality games in their respective franchises these past few years, managing to resurrect or create IPs. Deus Ex, Tomb Raider, Hitman, Sleeping dogs(not counting Thief, I'm entirely wary about that one from the info we've seen). If they strangle these studios they might just as well pack up and leave. FF has been less and less well received, KH is all over the place. They may be selling, but they are also dragging their feet compared to previous installments. They need budget management, and pull their head out of the clouds.
 

RicoADF

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rednightmare said:
Sure, because spending so much money making the games, that you need to sell the same number of copies Call of Duty did, had nothing to do with it.

Personally, I think they need to look at their spendings, not their sales figures.
This so much ^^

They are getting rediculas levels of expectations it's getting stupid. They need to start budgeting the costs better, the fact they can waste so much and then make a loss then Demon Souls can make a profit from far less sales/income yet their games still looks amazing just goes to show how much they waste.