Elysium

[omega 616]

This contains spoilers but I'm not going to spoiler tag the whole OP.

I have a question about this, I thought it was a plot hole but my supervisor thinks not and now I'm not sure.

So the whole thing of the movie is "earth people = scum. Elysium = social elite", so Elysium residents all have these beds that cure everything from broken bones to cancer in there homes. They treat Earth residents like Hitler treated Jews, they can't even breathe on Elysium residents.

So why do they need medical drop ships? Surely if you're safe in the knowledge Earth residents will never be treated equally (although that turns out to be false but before it happens, in that position you would think that) then why would you need a way to heal vasts amounts of people?

My supervisors point is "what if the earth people managed to land en masse on Elysium and started attacking people, like that one ship managed to do and they needed to heal loads of people", which is a point but out of 4 ships 1 got through and then it took only a few minutes to track down about 40 people ... why would they need 5(?) medical drop ships to heal a coup that wouldn't last all that long.

So is it a plot hole or what?

To add more discussion, how did you like the film. I rate films on how entertained I was, I really enjoyed Matt Damon's character struggle constantly ... usually in films the hero falls from grace, escapes the situation and then is either cat and mouse or gains the upper hand. In this he starts off having a tough time and it just goes down hill quickly ... he never catches a break.

Living it total poverty, long criminal record, arm broken by police, shut down at appeal, hard time from boss, massive radiation poisoning, 5 days left to live and that's just the set up! I mean jeezus!

What are your thoughts on the film?

 

[Zhukov]

While the medical shuttles are clearly there for plot convenience, it seems like a bit of a stretch to call it a plot hole.

Is it really so hard to imagine that they'd have some space-going medical treatment ships on a space habitat? Sounds like it would be a handy thing to have around for the same reasons that modern cities have ambulances. Accidents, emergencies and injuries can happen on a space station too, doesn't have to be an invasion. Also, they might have to make emergency trips for Elysium citizens on Earth. (We know they go down there sometimes.)

A better plot hole would be why did Kruger take Fraye (spelling?) and her daughter to Elysium. He originally arrested her because of her connection to Max. But then Max turns up of his own accord. So Fraye's of no more use to Kruger. Why wouldn't he just kick her out of the ship? Or shoot her, since he's kind of an arsehole like that. You could say it's because he was clearly attracted to her and planned to rape her at some point, but later on he orders her killed out of hand. Makes no sense.

As for the film itself... ehhh... it was okay.

My impressions were coloured by my expectations, having watched and loved District 9. Elysium was neither as interesting nor as kickass as that film, so I was kinda disappointed. The action scenes were rare and not all that impressive. I didn't really care much about the hero or the other characters. Well, except Spider and the people smugglers, they were kinda fun. Having an absurdly cute little girl with cancer was a hamfisted grab for the ol' heartstrings.

Lastly, while I have no objections whatsoever to the moral stance of the film, I did find it a bit on the blunt side.

 

[omega 616]

Is it really so hard to imagine that they'd have some space-going medical treatment ships on a space habitat? Sounds like it would be a handy thing to have around for the same reasons that modern cities have ambulances. Accidents, emergencies and injuries can happen on a space station too, doesn't have to be an invasion. Also, they might have to make emergency trips for Elysium citizens on Earth. (We know they go down there sometimes.)

To be honest, yeah. Like I said they all have those medi-beds sat at home, from what I remember of Elysium the place didn't look dangerous (like cars driving through streets) so how likely is it you're going to need a medical drop ship to bring you aid? Hobble to a house, knock on the door and throw the guy some cash. Ok, if there was a huge flying ship pile up and it crashed into a house, it would make sense but with homing mines that stick to people, mechs and mech suits, I'm sure anti collision technology would be in ships.

A better plot hole would be why did Kruger take Fraye (spelling?) and her daughter to Elysium. He originally arrested her because of her connection to Max. But then Max turns up of his own accord. So Fraye's of no more use to Kruger. Why wouldn't he just kick her out of the ship? Or shoot her, since he's kind of an arsehole like that. You could say it's because he was clearly attracted to her and planned to rape her at some point, but later on he orders her killed out of hand. Makes no sense.

Could have been "I'll keep her for raping later" and that turned into "I've got to kill this guy,I am prioritizing him over you and I can't be arsed with the hassle of keeping a prisoner" ... bit of a stretch though.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I found it funny how white people jumped Earth on their private space neighborhood leaving the blacks, the hispanics and Matt Damon behind. And how Matt Damon of all people becomes the savior of blacks and Hispanics. Good thing he was hanging around, otherwise they would've kept getting shot down ala Rio Grande.

 

[Zhukov]

Is it really so hard to imagine that they'd have some space-going medical treatment ships on a space habitat? Sounds like it would be a handy thing to have around for the same reasons that modern cities have ambulances. Accidents, emergencies and injuries can happen on a space station too, doesn't have to be an invasion. Also, they might have to make emergency trips for Elysium citizens on Earth. (We know they go down there sometimes.)

To be honest, yeah. Like I said they all have those medi-beds sat at home, from what I remember of Elysium the place didn't look dangerous (like cars driving through streets) so how likely is it you're going to need a medical drop ship to bring you aid? Hobble to a house, knock on the door and throw the guy some cash. Ok, if there was a huge flying ship pile up and it crashed into a house, it would make sense but with homing mines that stick to people, mechs and mech suits, I'm sure anti collision technology would be in ships.

Well obviously they're not going to need them when everything is hunky-dory. That's why we call it an accident or an emergency. It's the kind of thing that happens when, say, anti-collision technology fails. Or a fire breaks out. Or some pissed off people on Earth decide to go terrorist on their arses and ram a freight ship into the station.

Besides, well... it's a space station. It's a habitat suspended in the most hostile environment known to man. An environment only held at bay by machines. If something does go wrong, it could to go very wrong indeed. If I lived on there, I'd want there to be some emergency services in place.

Come to think of it, considering that space flight between Earth and Elysium was shown as being relatively commonplace, they could also use the medical shuttle in case of emergencies involving ships in transit.

 

[Zhukov]

I found it funny how white people jumped Earth on their private space neighborhood leaving the blacks, the hispanics and Matt Damon behind.

That made me laugh.

And how Matt Damon of all people becomes the savior of blacks and Hispanics. Good thing he was hanging around, otherwise they would've kept getting shot down ala Rio Grande.

I've seen people (on the internet, not in person) getting pissed off about the film's alleged racial politics of having a bunch of mostly white people being evil while a bunch of non-white people are sympathetically portrayed.

Imagine if the hero had been hispanic as well. Jesus, they'd have blown a gasket.

Nah, gotta keep them heroes white and male. Otherwise... God only knowns what might happen.

 

[briankoontz]

I found it funny how white people jumped Earth on their private space neighborhood leaving the blacks, the hispanics and Matt Damon behind. And how Matt Damon of all people becomes the savior of blacks and Hispanics. Good thing he was hanging around, otherwise they would've kept getting shot down ala Rio Grande.

The ironies of the film abound, this is just one of them.

Elysium is a Hollywood film, the institution responsible for culturally spreading the multinational corporate empire around the world, making it easier for the American military to keep the world's populace in line. Escaping Earth is the end-game position of the global elite, so Elysium itself through it's institution fuels the very situation it describes in the film.

Consider not just that Matt Damon is white (like the protagonist of District 9) but he's a savior, just like the protagonist in District 9. So the ideology of "single savior saves the world" continues, ala Superman ala the Matrix ala many other "world saving" scenarios in Hollywood, with the rest of them being "small group of heroes" saving the world ala The Avengers. Hollywood always ignores the actual way the world would be saved in the real world, by means of regular people asserting their collective power against the rich and powerful.

 

[Lionsfan]

Like other people said, I don't think it's a plot hole, maybe a bit of a stretch, but you could make an argument about needing them for emergencies.


As for the movie, I hated hated hated hated it. I'm not against political movies, or even obvious ones (I loved District 9), but when you've got like 4 or 5 political strawmen all crammed into one movie, it's just hard to watch.

The rich people in Elysium were being evil just for the sake of being evil, which makes for a boring setup, and the action wasn't that great either

 

[Scarim Coral]

You know I never thought about that until now but honestly my only beef in the film was why they were a holes in the first place seeing as far I can see there is no limitation on the magical medicial pod thing, otherwise why not heal everyone on Earth?

No don't quote me on that as I know it's about social status or just being elite etc, I'm just buffle on why not why give them what they want to lessen the tension between the two sides (ok it could they would take advantage of it but still)?

As for the film itself, it was alright and you can pretty much tell it's Neill Blomkamp style film that is if you had seen his other videos other than District 9 (set in rural area, similar robot design, Sharlto Copley is in it and human explosive violence).

 

[EternallyBored]

Consider not just that Matt Damon is white (like the protagonist of District 9) but he's a savior, just like the protagonist in District 9. So the ideology of "single savior saves the world" continues, ala Superman ala the Matrix ala many other "world saving" scenarios in Hollywood, with the rest of them being "small group of heroes" saving the world ala The Avengers. Hollywood always ignores the actual way the world would be saved in the real world, by means of regular people asserting their collective power against the rich and powerful.

To be fair, it would be really hard to make an entertaining action movie focused around hundreds of thousands of people rising up and fighting without at least focusing on a central protagonist or team. It may not be realistic, but there are limits to story telling, people can't care as much about a faceless mob (no matter how good their intentions) versus the actions of a singular person, or a small group.

As for the rest, yeah it's your standard Hollywood action plot, they try to make a point about class struggles but chicken out in favor of hiring a big name actor. The idea was that interbreeding had made all the people left on Earth of mixed ethnicity, but yeah it kind of falls apart with Matt Damon apparently being so pale compared to 99% of the rest of Earth.

Elysium is a Hollywood film, the institution responsible for culturally spreading the multinational corporate empire around the world, making it easier for the American military to keep the world's populace in line. Escaping Earth is the end-game position of the global elite, so Elysium itself through it's institution fuels the very situation it describes in the film.

Err, what?

I think you may have overestimated actually how poweful the American military is. The US is probably one of the Western Countries most critisized for it's wannabe-world-police behaviour of everything. Mind you, even if in your ridiclous little consipracy theory Hollywood would actually be behind something like this, their results in that case have been a catastrophic.

Like all American consipracy theories, this one overestimates the importance of the US, aside from being ridiculous.

OnT: the movie was alright, though extremely forgettable, and I'll doubt I'll remember even the name in a year or so.

I'm not going to assume what Briankoontz was actually saying, but I don't think he was talking about intentional conspiracy theory with his post. I think he was talking about how Hollywood tends to spread and infect other cultures with American values and ideas. Hollywood spreads movies over the whole planet with the constant reinforcement of ideas like, democracy always being good, and America almost always being the good guys.

While I don't think Hollywood does it on purpose or out of malice, they just want to make a buck, but it does spread a form of cultural hegemony, to the point that pretty much every culture on the planet has been effected by American culture, values, and traditions to some extent. We flood the market with movies portraying the American military as heroes and all around good guys, and while such movies aren't going to make countries love us, they do kind of infect other cultures with our view of ourselves.

The average world citizen will often know more about American culture than they do about the culture of a country much closer to them. Hell, I've met people who know more about American culture and history than they do the culture and history of their own country.

 

[Flutterguy]

The end of the movie pissed me off.

Either earth residents ate up a gigantic amount of resources dooming civilization. Or the healing machines are incredibly efficient, and the people on Elysium were just such gigantic douches the didn't feel like healing them.

 

[Hoplon]

This contains spoilers but I'm not going to spoiler tag the whole OP.

I have a question about this, I thought it was a plot hole but my supervisor thinks not and now I'm not sure.

So the whole thing of the movie is "earth people = scum. Elysium = social elite", so Elysium residents all have these beds that cure everything from broken bones to cancer in there homes. They treat Earth residents like Hitler treated Jews, they can't even breathe on Elysium residents.

So why do they need medical drop ships? Surely if you're safe in the knowledge Earth residents will never be treated equally (although that turns out to be false but before it happens, in that position you would think that) then why would you need a way to heal vasts amounts of people?

My supervisors point is "what if the earth people managed to land en masse on Elysium and started attacking people, like that one ship managed to do and they needed to heal loads of people", which is a point but out of 4 ships 1 got through and then it took only a few minutes to track down about 40 people ... why would they need 5(?) medical drop ships to heal a coup that wouldn't last all that long.

So is it a plot hole or what?

To add more discussion, how did you like the film. I rate films on how entertained I was, I really enjoyed Matt Damon's character struggle constantly ... usually in films the hero falls from grace, escapes the situation and then is either cat and mouse or gains the upper hand. In this he starts off having a tough time and it just goes down hill quickly ... he never catches a break.

Living it total poverty, long criminal record, arm broken by police, shut down at appeal, hard time from boss, massive radiation poisoning, 5 days left to live and that's just the set up! I mean jeezus!

What are your thoughts on the film?

Their citizens go to earth. they will never need a medi-vac?

yes the story is blunter than hell. brutally blunt even. Still enjoyed it a lot though.

 

[zumbledum]

well you could explain the drop ships as being needed in public areas, imagine a cinema catches fire a public building collapses a mobile mass hospital deployment could be useful.

thought the film was ok , a bit too concerned with being a not too subtle social metaphor and not enough concern over being a good film. but i thought all 3 of the "evil" people were fun to watch.

 

[omega 616]

Their citizens go to earth. they will never need a medi-vac?

Well the guy who got shot in the chest and his memory stolen needed some medical attention pretty urgently but he never got a drop ship.

well you could explain the drop ships as being needed in public areas, imagine a cinema catches fire a public building collapses a mobile mass hospital deployment could be useful.

Again though, in a world with all this tech ... would a that happen? I mean even in this day and age it's almost unheard of, I know there has just been a supermarket crash in on itself but before that when is the last time it happened?