Empire AI, is it getting better?

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Laughing Man

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Oct 10, 2008
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So now we have patch 1.3 and the question has to be. Is the AI in Empire getting better or is it, and this is what I think, resolving one issue and replacing it with other stupid problems.

- Division of forces: The AI divides it's forces in stupid unwinable ways. If I am engaged in a pitch battle with someone who has equal power to myself the last thing I am gonna do is find a nation who is just as powerful and then declare war on them as well. I would push on secure my forces, defeat my current enemy and THEN declare war on the second enemy.

- You're my enemy I fight only you: France declares war on me. Why does it do that. Well it's been involved in a pitch battle with Spain for about ten turns so it obviously decides it's time to apply the point I made above. I am fighting them for about 3 or 4 turns and then Spain turns round and declares war on me as well. Yup we have a three way going now... except France and Spain suddenly forget that they are at war with each other and decide to focus everything on me.

- I can see you: The enemy seems to be able to see right through the Fog Of War. It always manages to move it's units to exactly the spot you happen to occupy. This is especially noticeable with ships which will pick your vessels position out in the middle of the ocean and move straight to it. It's annoying because it means their is no tactical movement. What's the point of giving the main shipping lanes a wide birth if the enemy will still be able to spot you inside the FOW?

- Left or right: The one aspect where the AI is allowed to take control of my units and it still manages to make an ass of it. Withdraw from battle, to the left open water for miles to the right land and a dead end, which way will I go? Let's see I'll go right. Why, why does withdrawing always end up with your forces backing themselves in to a corner only for them to get instantly beaten thus rendering the withdraw useless?

- I Like you but I still hate you: Diplomacy is a waste of time, the enemy AI is utterly unmanageable. I've had 'friends' turn around and declare war for no reason whatsoever. I was allied with the United Provinces since the start of the game. Then about 30 turns in they went from being an ally to being at war with me in the space of two turns. Now the only instance I would pull a move like this would be if I had amassed an invasion army on their border and was ready to go the second I declared war. However the UP didn't do anything of the such in fact they declared war twenty turns ago and still haven't done a thing. They were and still are a two region power, they have a tiny army and they were allied with the most powerful nation in the game, they also had a good trade set up with me, so why declare war, break the alliance and thus any hope of protection, lose the cash from the trade and then do nothing to back it up...

- Death, it ain't gonna happen to me: So I am in the Americas securing my lands there, when Pruissa turn round and attacks. I have little force in the region but some how manage to gather enough troopage together to counter attack and hold one of their regions. I then notice that the Prussians have around eight to ten regions. Uh oh I am screwed! Some how I manage to secure my single region and hold it until I can reinforce. I manage to capture a second region then the Americans kick off back in the Colonies. So I have to spilt my forces. I manage to secure a third and fourth region from the Prussians then notice that I have seriously over stretched my forces. I try to broker a peace treaty. That fails. Ten turns later I've put the Americans down, managed to reinforce the regions in Prussia and noticed that the Austrians are also at war with the Prussians. In these ten turns I've tried various methods to broker a peace deal and none of them have worked. The Prussians have gone from being fairly powerful with 8 or 9 regions and are now reduced to just two regions, with only one of them having any serious force in it. They have me on one side and the Austrians on the other and they still refuse to discuss peace. There is fight to the last man and then there is stupidity.

Diplomacy, it's for the gays: Trade, peace, diplomacy in general. Why is it the player that has to initiate it. The only time I see the diplomacy window open is when the AI wants to declare war or when it wants to demand the return of a region' although after 1.3 I've noticed that doesn't seem to happen anymore. The objective is to make cash, garner relationship so why does the AI never offer trade? Never offer research exchange? Never offer state gifts? Worst yet if I was down to my last two regions on the brink of annihilation I would be doing everything to broker a peace deal... yet the AI never does this. It can't be that hard. Civv 1 through 4 managed to incorporate a far more complex diplomacy system that the AI actually used but Empires AI seems to all but ignore it.

Ships, they're for the gays too: Yeah their is more shipping activity in this patch than previous ones and on the one hand you have the super spider sense of the enemy ships that can find you in the middle of the ocean yet on the other you have the idiocy of the AI that still has no concept of sea born invasions. Or the concept of if I attack this trade lane here and get my ass kicked I guess attacking it another twenty times wouldn't be stupid. I sent a fourth rate SOL down to the Barbary states to ***** slap some daft 2 cannon sloop thing they had raiding one of my trade lanes. This started 30 or 40 turns ago and since then they have rebuilt, replaced, and sent another ship to attack the same trade lane every 3 or 4 turns since then. Failing to work out that the same Fourth Rate SOL is still there and will kick it's ass everytime.

Their are improvements in 1.3, the improvements have been coming slowly. The AI is more aggressive, it spends less time sitting around reinforcing it's own lands and instead tries to expand and yes it's harder. Not because the AI is smarter or being more tactical but simply because just about every nation has decided to attack me and ignore all their other enemies. Yeah that makes it harder but not in a very realistic way but the thing is the AI still does stuff that makes you go WTF?

You have a well defended city the enemy has two regions, hardly any military force what would the logical deal be? Reinforce, send and army large enough to take the city? Maybe broker peace and wait for your enemy to get distracted. No what it does is send two armies both with only two stacks who both get instantly crushed. Not very smart.
 

ElephantGuts

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Actually I just read this guy's [http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/59278/t/Result-of-a-1-3-Russian-campaign.html] report of a full campaign, and it sounds pretty good. He sounds happy with it. In fact it made me want to try playing Empire again (I haven't in a while). Empire is still a mess of a game, but it does seem to be improving. Atleast I should be able to select my fleets now...
 

sgtshock

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Feb 11, 2009
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These issues definetely bug me, and since 1.3 I've been getting a lot of CTDs on the campaign map. Creative Assembly really needs to hire some decent programmers, because they got the gameplay down perfect, but when it comes to compatability, AI, and general quality, it suffers. Still love Empire though.
 

The Madman

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Dec 7, 2007
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The AI is now capable of sea invasions, however they're extremely rare as the developers found increasing the frequency too much made it exceptionally hard to hold islands and the like. Was added in two patches ago I believe.

That aside AI is always a problem in games like this, and by 'games like this' I mean Total War because really only Total War does what Total War does which is why so many are willing to overlook its flaws. There are games with better campaign map AI such as Galactic Civilizations 2 which has by far the more amazing strategic AI I've ever seen in a game. And there are games with better rts AI.... err, actually most rts have horrible AI. Trying to think of a single rts that has AI even remotely comparable to a person and coming up with nothing. Regardless, Total War is the only franchise that not only does *both* of those, but has to try and consider both situations at every moment. It's pretty insane when you think about it.

Which is not to excuse Total War's lacking AI, not at all I really wish they'd spend more time working on it. But at the same time it puzzles me that people seem to up-in-arms about Empire's AI in particular. For all the complaints and flaws, Empire not only is the most complex of the series with the largest map, most elaborate trade system, and a ridiculous number of factions to consider. It also has by far the best AI so far, despite the flaws.

Or am I the only one who remember in Rome how entire armies would commit suicide trying to cross a bridge? Or how units of archers would shoot the row in-front of them during battle? How the AI would stall outside walls unsure of how to continue and how if you destroyed their siege weapons they might bug out and all run to the walls at once without a way of entering, just waiting for the slaughter? And the campaign map AI, man, so easy to toy with. Even in Medieval 2 the AI just can't siege castles, it literally cannot defeat anything with more than two walls so long as you've got a semi-decent force defending, no matter how great the odds against you are.

Guess the point is I'm willing to cut em some slack. They're improving, slowly but surely. Give it about three more Total War games and we might finally get something amazing. AI is often considered the most difficult part of a game to code. Do I wish for better, sure, but with a series this ambitious you can't expect perfection every time.