Encumbrance sucks, so why is it still so common?

[hanselthecaretaker]

Good article [https://www.pcgamer.com/encumbrance-sucks-so-why-is-it-still-so-common/], and I agree. While I can understand the intent of using such a mechanic, it rarely makes sense; especially when the game couldn't possibly physically represent all the gear you're carrying anyways. In a fantastical sense, if the gear hording can be balanced well in terms of say, rarity, duplicates, etc. within your person's inventory vs offloading it into storage, it can present an interesting tactical element.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Yeah, inventory management is so overdone in RPGs. I've said it many times how video game RPGs have lost their way, they've become about the "RPG elements" instead of the actual role-playing. The main issue with RPGs and inventories are needless loot systems. You're constantly getting slightly better weapons/gear and always in your inventory switching stuff out that's like +2 better on attack or defense. The main thing it accomplishes is wasting the player's time and not much else. Then, of course, becoming over-encumbered is basically a symptom to the illness. Cure the illness, not the symptom basically. It's like lootboxes are the same thing, the symptom to the Skinner box illness, get rid of the Skinner box, then the lootbox can't exist. Also, I've played pen and paper RPGs for a long time and no GM has ever made their players actually calculate their carrying weight because it ain't making the game anymore fun. At most, a GM will only make a point if a character is carrying ridiculously too much stuff, and of course just about any PnP RPG has something akin to the bag of holding.

I find the quotes from the Witcher 3 director quite funny. He calls Geralt a PROFESSIONAL monster slayer yet Geralt can't hold a level 2 sword at the start of the game. Witcher 3's loot system has no place and is the cause of becoming over-encumbered in the first place like most other RPGs. Why not make the character get better at using the weapon via character stats and/or upgrade the weapon to get more damage? It accomplishes the same exact thing while not wasting the player's time with needless management. Then, he goes on to say that every item in the inventory takes up memory and clutters up the UI as well. I don't think literally having 3 different kinds of chicken sandwiches is making the game any better or more immersive. And, you can have numerous different food items, even 20 varieties of chicken sandwiches if you want, but why not just have all different kinds of food picked up just listed in your inventory as just plain "food"? When you pickup anything worth money in Dishonored like say copper wire, the game just converts it into money so you don't have to manage an inventory of crap and have to find a merchant to sell it all.

 

[sXeth]

If encumbrance was somehow incorporated intuitively into the game, I could see its existence being justified.

Ark for instance (and this is a rare bit of praise for that mess), its a decent mechanic. Acquiring distant(*) resources can take some thought, and the game has mechanics in the forms of dinosaurs(**) that can carry much more, and specialty dinosaurs that reduce the weight of some resources (even if that whole concept is just nonsense).

Whereas you have other cases like Bethesda where you just hit the fast travel button and warp through the ether, there's even perks to do so while encumbered instead of before. No actual gameplay to it, just extra loading screens to waste time. Or Kingdom Come Deliverances wacky teleporting items to your horse mechanic.



*Ark posits itself as a PvP game, so resources tend to be pretty universally spread out, which kind of nullifies this in practice.
**Ark's dino AI and pathfinding makes actual caravan procedures almost impossible. Barring actually having people to ride all the things, which starts to eat into any efficiency increase.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

Personally, I hate games that use an encumbrance mechanic. It's the one thing that I mod out of games at any given opportunity. Carrying weight, when implemented with certain perks and stats and so on, just serve no function in making a game more fun or challenging, only tedious as all hell. If you want *immersion*, then actually make it realistic. Like what a person might actually carry. Or make certain allocations to item types, like 2 weapons, 6 food/health items, 4 booster items, unlimited crafting items, etc. And make the kind of armor you are wearing affect the movement speed, or agility to dodgy, parry and attack in combat. Thus giving certain movesets for light/medium/heavy armor or weapons.

Otherwise, the only thing you are testing is the player's patience, to sort through all the clutter, replace things, and even go and come back to town and sell them (which is another pet peeve, limited merchants, like I lugged all these breastplates to your freaking door and you can only buy ONE of them?!) Maybe I'm alone in this, and that's why literally every game has a carry limit, but I just hate backtracking and sorting.

The exception to the rule is something like Resident Evil, where that's actually an integral part of the games challenges and puzzles, I guess.

 

[The Wykydtron]

I'm playing a bunch of Dragon's Dogma and I spend half the game just working out my inventory and passing shit over to my glorified pack horse assistant. Carry weight should just work off the armour you wear in the majority of RPGs, Dark Souls did this right for example.

Encumbrance works in some TTRPGs like DnD though, if your DM can be bothered keeping track. My current character has 4 Strength in a game where 10 Strength is what a basic ***** commoner has, obviously it'd make sense in that occasion. Encumbrance is supposed to work as a mechanic stopping ludicrous amounts of items on someone where most RPGs are only hindered by such a mechanic since there's a million ways around it. Such as in Skyrim you could just drop all your loot on the floor, fast travel, sell everything you need to, fast travel back and pick up the rest.

 

[Kyrian007]

The problem of doing away with encumbrance... is players. Players exploit everything in a game for advantage. An unlimited carrying capacity makes games that are already generally too easy these days... downright babies-first-videagame simple. Look at all the folks crying and whining about settlement building in Fallout 4. Bethesda made it completely optional in game, but people still bellyached about its inclusion. But remove encumbrance, and you even remove the need to just have somewhere to keep all your stuff... whether its a place you built or just some random abandoned building with a couple of containers.

Encumbrance forces a player to prioritize a loadout, create a playstyle based on carrying capacity vs attack and defense. Encumbrance creates the need to defend strategic areas in an effort to store items. Basically encumbrance helps make someone engage with and fully play a game. If someone really wants baby mode for lightweights and casuals... I guess games could give someone a feature turning encumbrance off?

And as far as "immersion breaking..." yes it is a little odd when your dragonborn suddenly can't run or jump because he picked up that one too many butterfly wing. But immersion BREAKING? In a game where you can whisper a SHOUT, or steal after placing a bucket on someone's head, or... turn into a werewolf... somehow encumbrance is the immersion problem?

I just don't think the "problem with encumbrance" is a problem that needs solving.

 

[votemarvel]

I enjoy inventory management in RPGs but I do loathe encumbrance. I'm carrying a portable nuke launcher but picking up that pistol is suddenly going to make me move at a crawling pace?

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

I don't mind encumbrance, but it could maybe be a bit better implemented. Maybe a more gradual slowdown rather than full effectiveness to crawl all of a sudden...*reads article*...see!

Playing Fallout's survival mode and having to be wary of what you were carrying is pretty good if that's the sort of experience you want. I can't tote around enough equipment to start and win a small war, so I have to make some decisions.

The lack of fast travel in Skyrim and Fallout when over encumbered just felt like busywork, especially in the non Survival modes. If you could fast travel without the overload (i.e. no enemies about etc), then why not? All you're going to do otherwise is dump gear, fast travel, sell a bunch then fast travel back to pick up the rest, fast travel back and sell it. Nothing exciting happens in the interim, I don't think anyone finds loading screens entertaining.

Skyrim I just downloaded the bag of holding mod. It's in DnD, I can work with that.

I dunno...choices. Give players choices. and hooray for mods.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

To this day the upgradable Resident Evil 4 suitcase and Deus Ex:HR inventory remain my favorite way to do inventory.

There's a mod for The Witcher 3 that allows you to use your horse as additional inventory, which is also kind of awesome and also worrisome because modders thought of it before the devs.

 

[meiam]

It depend on the game but well done it can add a lot. Like if you play fallout 4 in survival mode (no fast travel) you need to make a lot of decision about what you carry, I personally find that interesting. It's not that the mechanic suck, it's that dev don't put in the time to integrate it well in the game.

 

[Mothro]

Inventory limits suck and I hate how modern games throw so much loot at you that vast majority of it is useless outside of selling it. Combine those two and it's just a bad experience.

 

[Mothro]

The problem of doing away with encumbrance... is players. Players exploit everything in a game for advantage. An unlimited carrying capacity makes games that are already generally too easy these days... downright babies-first-videagame simple. Look at all the folks crying and whining about settlement building in Fallout 4. Bethesda made it completely optional in game, but people still bellyached about its inclusion. But remove encumbrance, and you even remove the need to just have somewhere to keep all your stuff... whether its a place you built or just some random abandoned building with a couple of containers.

Encumbrance forces a player to prioritize a loadout, create a playstyle based on carrying capacity vs attack and defense. Encumbrance creates the need to defend strategic areas in an effort to store items. Basically encumbrance helps make someone engage with and fully play a game. If someone really wants baby mode for lightweights and casuals... I guess games could give someone a feature turning encumbrance off?

And as far as "immersion breaking..." yes it is a little odd when your dragonborn suddenly can't run or jump because he picked up that one too many butterfly wing. But immersion BREAKING? In a game where you can whisper a SHOUT, or steal after placing a bucket on someone's head, or... turn into a werewolf... somehow encumbrance is the immersion problem?

I just don't think the "problem with encumbrance" is a problem that needs solving.

I fail to see how being able to carry more would make the game easier? Is it a matter of money, the player could haul back an unlimited amount of useless junk and sell it? Then lessen the useless junk that the game gives the player.

 

[Majestic Manatee_v1legacy]

It's to stop you hoarding shit. Not wealth, sadly, it maintains that element of real life.

 

[Elijin]

The problem of doing away with encumbrance... is players. Players exploit everything in a game for advantage. An unlimited carrying capacity makes games that are already generally too easy these days... downright babies-first-videagame simple. Look at all the folks crying and whining about settlement building in Fallout 4. Bethesda made it completely optional in game, but people still bellyached about its inclusion. But remove encumbrance, and you even remove the need to just have somewhere to keep all your stuff... whether its a place you built or just some random abandoned building with a couple of containers.

Encumbrance forces a player to prioritize a loadout, create a playstyle based on carrying capacity vs attack and defense. Encumbrance creates the need to defend strategic areas in an effort to store items. Basically encumbrance helps make someone engage with and fully play a game. If someone really wants baby mode for lightweights and casuals... I guess games could give someone a feature turning encumbrance off?

And as far as "immersion breaking..." yes it is a little odd when your dragonborn suddenly can't run or jump because he picked up that one too many butterfly wing. But immersion BREAKING? In a game where you can whisper a SHOUT, or steal after placing a bucket on someone's head, or... turn into a werewolf... somehow encumbrance is the immersion problem?

I just don't think the "problem with encumbrance" is a problem that needs solving.

I fail to see how being able to carry more would make the game easier? Is it a matter of money, the player could haul back an unlimited amount of useless junk and sell it? Then lessen the useless junk that the game gives the player.

I think the logic being employed is 'There are more things to manage, and places to bother about with busywork like defending your base or trekking back to lighten those bags.'

It seems like a...questionable way to make your game "hard" (unless that is the core mechanic, in something like State of Decay, Minecraft, Rust, etc etc).

So in this scenario, needlessly wasting the players time with side mechanics which dont build upon the core experience make it 'good' and a focused experience is 'for babies, lightweights and casuals'.

 

[Avnger]

The problem of doing away with encumbrance... is players. Players exploit everything in a game for advantage. An unlimited carrying capacity makes games that are already generally too easy these days... downright babies-first-videagame simple. Look at all the folks crying and whining about settlement building in Fallout 4. Bethesda made it completely optional in game, but people still bellyached about its inclusion. But remove encumbrance, and you even remove the need to just have somewhere to keep all your stuff... whether its a place you built or just some random abandoned building with a couple of containers.

Encumbrance forces a player to prioritize a loadout, create a playstyle based on carrying capacity vs attack and defense. Encumbrance creates the need to defend strategic areas in an effort to store items. Basically encumbrance helps make someone engage with and fully play a game. If someone really wants baby mode for lightweights and casuals... I guess games could give someone a feature turning encumbrance off?

And as far as "immersion breaking..." yes it is a little odd when your dragonborn suddenly can't run or jump because he picked up that one too many butterfly wing. But immersion BREAKING? In a game where you can whisper a SHOUT, or steal after placing a bucket on someone's head, or... turn into a werewolf... somehow encumbrance is the immersion problem?

I just don't think the "problem with encumbrance" is a problem that needs solving.

I fail to see how being able to carry more would make the game easier? Is it a matter of money, the player could haul back an unlimited amount of useless junk and sell it? Then lessen the useless junk that the game gives the player.

I mean I could see a scenario where a limited inventory makes it harder.

Pokemon is one example of it. If you could carry every pokemon that you've ever caught in your party at once or pokemon could know an infinite number of moves at a time, the game would be ridiculously easy; limiting it to 6/4 forces you to make choices on which types/moves you want. However, any system like that needs to have a way around that hard limit for picking up items to not be annoying. Continuing the pokemon example, you can catch an infinite (essentially) number of pokemon out in the field, and they're automatically sent to your pc. You're not forced to leave towns with only 4/6 slots open to be able to catch new ones then have to run back to town to drop them off every time you do.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Skyrim I just downloaded the bag of holding mod. It's in DnD, I can work with that.

Glimpse of Elswyr? Man, I remember life before that mod. It was a dark time. The only mod I value more is AutoHarvest2.

To this day the upgradable ... Deus Ex:HR inventory remain my favorite way to do inventory.

Oh I see, I get it. What a surprise!? How unexpected, Adam Jensen likes Deus Ex inventory system, stop the press. Totally unbiased, yeah, you're not selling any more games bub. I suppose you also like body modification and large air vents in office buildings.

PS. Please don't elbow sword me.

OT: I'm not really a fan. There are games where I think it's done well, but more in terms of mechanics than in just being a pain. Inventory management, slow movement and crap like that is tedious and not fun. Dark Souls OTOH it is a core part of building your character. Greater loads need either stat investment or giving up a ring slot, wearing less, etc. It affects the ability to roll and dodge efficiently.

It's less noticible in games as mentioned above, like RE4, DE:HR and the like, where the "encumbrance" is more a way to enforce choosing what you take, rather than shuffling shit around between party members, slogging back to town to sell all the trousers (as Yahtzee would describe it) and that stuff. Hence in Skyrim, Bag of Holding because it's a slog, not a mechanical or playstyle related choice.

And as far as "immersion breaking..." yes it is a little odd when your dragonborn suddenly can't run or jump because he picked up that one too many butterfly wing. But immersion BREAKING? In a game where you can whisper a SHOUT, or steal after placing a bucket on someone's head, or... turn into a werewolf... somehow encumbrance is the immersion problem?

It is, or certainly can be immersion breaking, and I'll explain why as succinctly as I'm able (hah!). JRR Tolkein described the concept of the Secondary World [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Secondary_world]. In its simplest it can be thought of as:

Secondary world is a term used by Tolkien to refer to a consistent, fictional world or setting, created by a man, also called subcreation, in contrast to the Reality, called Primary world.

While you're playing Skyrim, turning into a Werewolf and FUS-ROH-DAHing like a champ, you're immersed in the world. They are among the reasons the game is so immersive. It's all consistent and keeps you hooked. When you suddenly get the encumbered popup and slow to a crawl, the player is often suddenly thrown back to the primary world and reminded that they're playing a game and have to take care of busywork. It has nothing to do with how fantastic the setting, it's about consistency and respect to the player, reader or viewer.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

PS. Please don't elbow sword me.

Nah. Luckily for you I like a non-lethal approach.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Yeah, inventory management is so overdone in RPGs. I've said it many times how video game RPGs have lost their way, they've become about the "RPG elements" instead of the actual role-playing. The main issue with RPGs and inventories are needless loot systems. You're constantly getting slightly better weapons/gear and always in your inventory switching stuff out that's like +2 better on attack or defense. The main thing it accomplishes is wasting the player's time and not much else. Then, of course, becoming over-encumbered is basically a symptom to the illness. Cure the illness, not the symptom basically. It's like lootboxes are the same thing, the symptom to the Skinner box illness, get rid of the Skinner box, then the lootbox can't exist. Also, I've played pen and paper RPGs for a long time and no GM has ever made their players actually calculate their carrying weight because it ain't making the game anymore fun. At most, a GM will only make a point if a character is carrying ridiculously too much stuff, and of course just about any PnP RPG has something akin to the bag of holding.

I find the quotes from the Witcher 3 director quite funny. He calls Geralt a PROFESSIONAL monster slayer yet Geralt can't hold a level 2 sword at the start of the game. Witcher 3's loot system has no place and is the cause of becoming over-encumbered in the first place like most other RPGs. Why not make the character get better at using the weapon via character stats and/or upgrade the weapon to get more damage? It accomplishes the same exact thing while not wasting the player's time with needless management. Then, he goes on to say that every item in the inventory takes up memory and clutters up the UI as well. I don't think literally having 3 different kinds of chicken sandwiches is making the game any better or more immersive. And, you can have numerous different food items, even 20 varieties of chicken sandwiches if you want, but why not just have all different kinds of food picked up just listed in your inventory as just plain "food"? When you pickup anything worth money in Dishonored like say copper wire, the game just converts it into money so you don't have to manage an inventory of crap and have to find a merchant to sell it all.

That?s the other thing that bothers me about RPGs. Why does a pre-established character need to constantly start ?at the beginning? with basic stats and skills just because of the story? At the very least you should be able to transfer your build over the course of the series, even if it would require some extra legwork balancing the game. I think some games actually do this, but only to varying degrees.

 

[Worgen]

The problem of doing away with encumbrance... is players. Players exploit everything in a game for advantage. An unlimited carrying capacity makes games that are already generally too easy these days... downright babies-first-videagame simple. Look at all the folks crying and whining about settlement building in Fallout 4. Bethesda made it completely optional in game, but people still bellyached about its inclusion. But remove encumbrance, and you even remove the need to just have somewhere to keep all your stuff... whether its a place you built or just some random abandoned building with a couple of containers.

Encumbrance forces a player to prioritize a loadout, create a playstyle based on carrying capacity vs attack and defense. Encumbrance creates the need to defend strategic areas in an effort to store items. Basically encumbrance helps make someone engage with and fully play a game. If someone really wants baby mode for lightweights and casuals... I guess games could give someone a feature turning encumbrance off?

And as far as "immersion breaking..." yes it is a little odd when your dragonborn suddenly can't run or jump because he picked up that one too many butterfly wing. But immersion BREAKING? In a game where you can whisper a SHOUT, or steal after placing a bucket on someone's head, or... turn into a werewolf... somehow encumbrance is the immersion problem?

I just don't think the "problem with encumbrance" is a problem that needs solving.

I don't think your wrong but the issue is that players will tend to always skirt the line of encumbrance just in case they need something later, but that means that players will end up having to spend a lot of time with inventory management for any new stuff they find. Never underestimate players abilities to make a game not fun while they try to min max things. Dark Souls had a rather elegant system for it. You can carry almost as much as you want of anything in the game, but you have very limited healing/magic restore items that are restored at a rest point and you can wear any amount of heavy armor but it makes it more difficult to dodge damage.