I think it would be cool if max level players could erect fortresses and enlist lower level characters as "minions" to lead into battle...that would reek of badassery!
End game content in MMORPGS
- Thread starter Ranzel
- Start date
The thing is you can't really achieve truely dynamic endgame because your catering to 4 major sectors in the genré - Pvpers, Hardcore, casual and Rp / lore.
I think the only real way to get a masterful endgame is to make the player feel that their presence in the game or more specifically their presence in "the world" does make a difference. Im not a programmer but I look at games like wow, lotro, SWG,COH etc and I realise that by mixing in an automated RTS element you really could give the players that "That happened because of me <3" feeling.
I say automated RTS element in the context of - your guild provides a town QuarterMaster with 25 bronze swords, 25 bronze chestplates and 100 cloth / food and bam 25 soldiers spawn in that town to defend it agains your enemy or one idea I came up with (would be trés complicated to execute) which was your home faction has a general and QM in your capital you provide materials and colonels spawn with their own armies which then march against the enemy towns. each time one of the colonels reaches a border a camp is setup to wage war in that region. Quests become lit up where players will scout against the enemy, soften targets, conduct subterfuge / sabotage etc to assist in the battle.
This provides player interaction in both offensive and defensive aspects as they can fight against a colonel when it arrives on their border. I refer to this as a flowing dynamic, it keeps moving and its never the same battle twice, unlike in wows AV battles - rush towers, rush Stormpike... yeh THATS thrilling pvp.
The armies would move in real time though, they'd have a set route they would use and if two colonels met in 1 region they duke it out. As I said, not a programmer but if they can do it in Age of Empires and C&C Tiberum wars 3 Im sure they can do it in an MMo considering its still basically an rts with automated functions and predefined stats.
Take into consideration this hypothetical - 10man raid in Kara, your the only person with the Urn to summon ... that fiery dragon.... Nightbane? (God it really has been too long since I did Kara) how important do you feel being the player to make the difference in being able to summon him?
Now imagine that your in a guild in a hypothetical MMO and because of your guilds combined efforts of supplying crafted items to a city a new armour shop spawns or because of you and your buddies taking down a regional capital (maybe a tower with a boss in it) you now gain a new zone where a camp spawns with quests for your army / faction.
Thats true player integration, you feel you make a difference and that is where the immersion comes in. You stop playing a game and you become part of that world.
Things I feel provide immersion -
player motivated markets (such as the one in SWG, EVERYTHING in that game is made by players, there are no vendors for shizzle)
Regional pvp where you take regions and hold them for X time where you can do unique quests to gain X item / faction rep / titles etc
City / out post / town expansion due to player influence (be it doing some quests to provide something, trading in that town or doing something to provide exp to a young town)
Player cities, 'nuff said
Players need to feel there is another step otherwise you get that hollow feeling where upon you reach the final stage and its over, even with the free roaming options I still find myself questioning if a games endgame is worth the time and money.
Telling ppl that endgame they can "explore" isnt gonna get them fired up unless exploring results in some sort of reward. I personally think there can be alot of benefits to endgame not being touched upon for example -
The bounty hunter system - used very rarely in games. Why not use one with a ranking system? so the best bounty hunters can earn titles and earn bragging rights.
Monster hunting npc guild - Everytime you bring down a major boss you earn points for doing so, fewer points for other bosses. Again resulting in cool titles and unique rewards (could also be implemented as a means of handing out sets and so on)
Make pvp more rewarding as well, While pvp titles isnt a new thing make those titles actually do something. If a player reaches sergeant for example whenever they are teamed up with low or unranked players in pvp they can provide small bonuses, like 3% extra damage while within X yards of the sergeant.
As I said above: Capturable territories, ALOT of them so that guilds can spend weeks expanding an empire. Who doesnt love the idea of ruiling their own kingdom? Could even go as far as to say that as long as a guild holds a territory they can earn X amount of bonus to exp, gold and so on IN those regions. They dont even have to be in the main game body where you lvl from 1 - xx could just be a different continent for players to wage war on.
These are just basic ideas but I never see any of them in use in mmos. Its sad to say but very true all mmos or at least most are trying too hard to immitate wows success. Yes it is a good game well made and very functional BUT thats wow. Lotro before siege of mirkwood ripped wow off wholesale even as far as the Daze mechanic (thats been replaced now with Mount hp).
So many untapped ideas and just once Id love to look at a games features and see stuff that is actually original and not just another twist on the same Martini time and again.
Still here's hoping and praying that one day I am successful enough in life to slap some sense into this industry and provoke some new thinking.
We can but hope ^_^
I think the only real way to get a masterful endgame is to make the player feel that their presence in the game or more specifically their presence in "the world" does make a difference. Im not a programmer but I look at games like wow, lotro, SWG,COH etc and I realise that by mixing in an automated RTS element you really could give the players that "That happened because of me <3" feeling.
I say automated RTS element in the context of - your guild provides a town QuarterMaster with 25 bronze swords, 25 bronze chestplates and 100 cloth / food and bam 25 soldiers spawn in that town to defend it agains your enemy or one idea I came up with (would be trés complicated to execute) which was your home faction has a general and QM in your capital you provide materials and colonels spawn with their own armies which then march against the enemy towns. each time one of the colonels reaches a border a camp is setup to wage war in that region. Quests become lit up where players will scout against the enemy, soften targets, conduct subterfuge / sabotage etc to assist in the battle.
This provides player interaction in both offensive and defensive aspects as they can fight against a colonel when it arrives on their border. I refer to this as a flowing dynamic, it keeps moving and its never the same battle twice, unlike in wows AV battles - rush towers, rush Stormpike... yeh THATS thrilling pvp.
The armies would move in real time though, they'd have a set route they would use and if two colonels met in 1 region they duke it out. As I said, not a programmer but if they can do it in Age of Empires and C&C Tiberum wars 3 Im sure they can do it in an MMo considering its still basically an rts with automated functions and predefined stats.
Take into consideration this hypothetical - 10man raid in Kara, your the only person with the Urn to summon ... that fiery dragon.... Nightbane? (God it really has been too long since I did Kara) how important do you feel being the player to make the difference in being able to summon him?
Now imagine that your in a guild in a hypothetical MMO and because of your guilds combined efforts of supplying crafted items to a city a new armour shop spawns or because of you and your buddies taking down a regional capital (maybe a tower with a boss in it) you now gain a new zone where a camp spawns with quests for your army / faction.
Thats true player integration, you feel you make a difference and that is where the immersion comes in. You stop playing a game and you become part of that world.
Things I feel provide immersion -
player motivated markets (such as the one in SWG, EVERYTHING in that game is made by players, there are no vendors for shizzle)
Regional pvp where you take regions and hold them for X time where you can do unique quests to gain X item / faction rep / titles etc
City / out post / town expansion due to player influence (be it doing some quests to provide something, trading in that town or doing something to provide exp to a young town)
Player cities, 'nuff said
Players need to feel there is another step otherwise you get that hollow feeling where upon you reach the final stage and its over, even with the free roaming options I still find myself questioning if a games endgame is worth the time and money.
Telling ppl that endgame they can "explore" isnt gonna get them fired up unless exploring results in some sort of reward. I personally think there can be alot of benefits to endgame not being touched upon for example -
The bounty hunter system - used very rarely in games. Why not use one with a ranking system? so the best bounty hunters can earn titles and earn bragging rights.
Monster hunting npc guild - Everytime you bring down a major boss you earn points for doing so, fewer points for other bosses. Again resulting in cool titles and unique rewards (could also be implemented as a means of handing out sets and so on)
Make pvp more rewarding as well, While pvp titles isnt a new thing make those titles actually do something. If a player reaches sergeant for example whenever they are teamed up with low or unranked players in pvp they can provide small bonuses, like 3% extra damage while within X yards of the sergeant.
As I said above: Capturable territories, ALOT of them so that guilds can spend weeks expanding an empire. Who doesnt love the idea of ruiling their own kingdom? Could even go as far as to say that as long as a guild holds a territory they can earn X amount of bonus to exp, gold and so on IN those regions. They dont even have to be in the main game body where you lvl from 1 - xx could just be a different continent for players to wage war on.
These are just basic ideas but I never see any of them in use in mmos. Its sad to say but very true all mmos or at least most are trying too hard to immitate wows success. Yes it is a good game well made and very functional BUT thats wow. Lotro before siege of mirkwood ripped wow off wholesale even as far as the Daze mechanic (thats been replaced now with Mount hp).
So many untapped ideas and just once Id love to look at a games features and see stuff that is actually original and not just another twist on the same Martini time and again.
Still here's hoping and praying that one day I am successful enough in life to slap some sense into this industry and provoke some new thinking.
We can but hope ^_^