Ender's Game Author Asks For Tolerance After Boycott Threat

[Flatfrog]

THIS! People sit on their high and mighty horses seeking to destroy others for their political/social/religious opinions when it is they who are seeking to destroy free speech with boycotts.

Wait a second. A boycott doesn't destroy free speech. This is a free market and people are entitled to spend their money how they choose. Card is entitled to hold his views and to speak them wherever he wishes; but if the consequence is that people cease to respect him and stop buying his books, he has to accept that.

 

[aPod]

Another case of people confusing what the word tolerance means.

 

[bravetoaster]

There was a boycott planned?
Oh c'mon people. There's a word for you which I can't remember right now, and it's not a compliment. Why would you care about what he said? There's simply no point.

EDIT: I now see hate coming my way. Oh well. Not gonna retract.

I don't particularly care about what he said--I mean, he's an utter idiot and a bigot, but I'm under no obligation to listen to his bullshit. I have no interest in doing anything that will put money in his pocket, given his actions which try to deprive fellow citizens of legal rights.

That all said, an organized/publicized boycott seems like a fundamentally stupid way of going about things. It just means the film gets extra, free publicity, and possibly even more viewers.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I must resume laughing at Card for thinking "tolerance" means "ignoring someone's bigotry and active fight to further oppress already-oppressed people."

 

[kailus13]

People sit on their high and mighty horses seeking to destroy others for their political/social/religious opinions when it is they who are seeking to destroy free speech with boycotts. They make people afraid to dissent or speak their mind because it is politically incorrect. In the past I fell for the same traps until I realized that my boycotts were simply a tool of political correctness and speech policing. His opinion is VALID. We disagree with his opinion but we don't want to make other people afraid to have the same opinion and voice it.

Free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. Boycotts are simply a way for people to say en masse that they dissaprove. He can say what he wants but people will always judge him for that.

 

[theApoc]

Um, you people do know that the power/responsibility being pushed back on the states is not akin to "gay marriage becoming law throughout the land", right?

Folks, I hate to break it to you, intolerance, especially when it comes under voicing an opinion, is not a crime. Being passionate about beliefs, also, not a crime. The vilification of anyone with different ideals is a far bigger problem for EVERYONE than whether or not a gay couple can get married. I used to be for gay marriage. Now I only support legal protections and equality for ANYONE who wants to share their estate. The hypocrisy of "gay rights" advocates is appalling to me and I refuse to condone that type of social bullying.

We ALL, gay, straight, and otherwise, CHOOSE the people we love. We are not pre-destined to be one way or another. That CHOICE is ours to make and we should ALL be free to make it. Cohabitation law as well as legal binding of estate should have always been the focal point of this argument. I should be able to CHOOSE who I partner with from a legal standpoint. Love, religion, marriage, that is not something that can or should be legislated by anyone. You can't make a law that makes people tolerant and we shouldn't be trying.

Card should have left his beliefs out of his work, separated the two. And if he can't, he should be willing to accept the consequences. Pandering to the masses is more offensive than anything he has said about his beliefs.

And for the record, being a bigot is not exclusive to the people against gay marriage, both sides of this coin are far too intolerant for my tastes...

 

[Pickapok]

The sociopolitical views of the author have no bearing on the quality of his work unless the work is centered on those views.

Ender's Game is decidedly NOT about gay marriage and is held as a classic work of science fiction, rightfully heavy with praise.

You are not promoting or supporting bigotry by seeing this movie or reading this book. You are promoting damn good storytelling and science fiction.

Besides, for all we know Card already got his check when he sold the rights to the studio/producers making the film. The rest may be going entirely towards recovering the budget and lining the pockets of those who made it.

For once I wish people could separate the views of a dickish author from the books and, worse still, it appears on a case by case basis. J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout Catholic and therefore opposed to homosexuality. You don't see people boycotting Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit to keep money from going to his family. What makes Card so different and special?

 

[Orange12345]

People sit on their high and mighty horses seeking to destroy others for their political/social/religious opinions when it is they who are seeking to destroy free speech with boycotts. They make people afraid to dissent or speak their mind because it is politically incorrect. In the past I fell for the same traps until I realized that my boycotts were simply a tool of political correctness and speech policing. His opinion is VALID. We disagree with his opinion but we don't want to make other people afraid to have the same opinion and voice it.

Free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. Boycotts are simply a way for people to say en masse that they dissaprove. He can say what he wants but people will always judge him for that.

I agree people are responsible for their words, I'm not saying he didn't have a right to say what he did or that he should apologize but not supporting his movie because he is a homophobe is not some high-horse PC anti-speech tactic.

 

[carlj]

Sheesh, a whole lot of reactive zombies on this thread. It was never about tolerance; it's about whose turn it is in the barrel. Okay, guys, who we shunning today? The fucked up homosexuals who defile "God's plan," or the fucked up conservatives who defile the "New Order?" The only difference is whose bidding you're serving now.

Guy writes books. Not great books, but okay books. Why make a big deal over what he thinks? I don't crawl up Beethoven's asshole to determine where he stood on the whole "Maria Antoinette scandal," before deciding whether I like Fur Elise, and I don't care where the guy who makes my pizza comes in on the Right to Life issue, unless of course, he's using afterbirth in the sauce.

The people with a rallying cry at the tip of their tongues for every goddamned occasion are nothing more angry assholes looking for a mob to join, but with MacBook Airs instead of pitchforks. Self-righteous, indignant liberals aren't any more attractive than self-righteous, indignant religious fundamentalists. They make for unpleasant company regardless which team shirt they're wearing this season.

 

[Flatfrog]

For once I wish people could separate the views of a dickish author from the books and, worse still, it appears on a case by case basis. J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout Catholic and therefore opposed to homosexuality. You don't see people boycotting Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit to keep money from going to his family. What makes Card so different and special?

It's very straightforward. Tolkien didn't actively campaign against gay rights. Therefore, his personal opinions are irrelevant. Card can be as homophobic as he likes in private. But if he's going to become a spokesman in the fight against equality, then some people are going to lose respect for him, and that may have an impact on his bank balance.

 

[Vivi22]

So he wants to play the old be tolerant of people's intolerance card? Sorry no, being intolerant of bigotry is neither hypocritical, nor required and I wouldn't recommend anyone be that way. Think what you want in private, but as soon as you begin publicly preaching bigotry you put a target on your back and everyone who takes a shot at it is perfectly justified.

 

[1337mokro]

Sheesh, a whole lot of reactive zombies on this thread. It was never about tolerance; it's about whose turn it is in the barrel. Okay, guys, who we shunning today? The fucked up homosexuals who defile "God's plan," or the fucked up conservatives who defile the "New Order?" The only difference is whose bidding you're serving now.

Guy writes books. Not great books, but okay books. Why make a big deal over what he thinks? I don't crawl up Beethoven's asshole to determine where he stood on the whole "Maria Antoinette scandal," before deciding whether I like Fur Elise, and I don't care where the guy who makes my pizza comes in on the Right to Life issue, unless of course, he's using afterbirth in the sauce.

The people with a rallying cry at the tip of their tongues for every goddamned occasion are nothing more angry assholes looking for a mob to join, but with MacBook Air instead of pitchforks. Self-righteous, indignant liberals aren't any more attractive than self-righteous, indignant religious fundamentalists. They make for unpleasant company regardless which team shirt they're wearing this season.

Beethoven is dead and not actively engaged in political movements to do anything. This guy is and wants to institutionalize unequal treatment for 10% of the population. He is part of a group of people that have for a long time mentally and physically abused those around them that think differently, look differently or act differently.

If you want to be the naive uninformed consumer then be one. Don't demand other people share in the ignorance of the products they support and thus the people behind the products. Why put ingredients on packages? If it's tastes good and you like it there is no problem with it right? Who cares if your chicken burgers are 70% sawdust.

If the person behind the product is a piece of shit, he is working towards make his bullshit beliefs effective law and on top of that really isn't that good of a writer then you should not ignore the effects of supporting this man financially.

 

[Vivi22]

Sheesh, a whole lot of reactive zombies on this thread. It was never about tolerance; it's about whose turn it is in the barrel. Okay, guys, who we shunning today? The fucked up homosexuals who defile "God's plan," or the fucked up conservatives who defile the "New Order?" The only difference is whose bidding you're serving now.

Actually, the difference is that one group gets flack for being different and the other gets flack for being immoral bigots who would like to see other people oppressed and their rights denied. Some people seem to miss those facts.

 

[KOMega]

I really liked Ender's Game, and a few of the sequel books (although I think the quality was on a slow decline for that series.)

Still, I didn't see any anti-gay stuff in his books. So whatever.

Although... I didn't really see what he actually said or did. Can someone show me what he did?

 

[bravetoaster]

The sociopolitical views of the author have no bearing on the quality of his work unless the work is centered on those views.

Ender's Game is decidedly NOT about gay marriage and is held as a classic work of science fiction, rightfully heavy with praise.

You are not promoting or supporting bigotry by seeing this movie or reading this book. You are promoting damn good storytelling and science fiction.

Besides, for all we know Card already got his check when he sold the rights to the studio/producers making the film. The rest may be going entirely towards recovering the budget and lining the pockets of those who made it.

For once I wish people could separate the views of a dickish author from the books and, worse still, it appears on a case by case basis. J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout Catholic and therefore opposed to homosexuality. You don't see people boycotting Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit to keep money from going to his family. What makes Card so different and special?

What's wrong with people's feelings toward a person influencing their perceptions of his/her writing, art, or other work?

It's perfectly normal to encounter someone who you find so objectionable as a person that you can't enjoy their work--no matter the objective quality of the work--and it's also fine if you can look at someone's work and say "Well, this is actually really good, despite X being a complete piece of crap. I like it." My go-to example is Auguste Rodin, who, from what I've read, was a complete asshole and treated women terribly... but was also an amazingly skilled sculptor. Sometimes, some people can separate the work from the person, other times they can't; for better or worse, you cannot change the way people feel, and it seems a waste to get too bent out of shape over it.

Also, regardless of whether or not Card has been paid his full share for the film, if it's hugely successful (which is most likely will be, despite the author), Hollywood's likely to make a whole series of films (which would almost certainly result in more money going into Card's pockets [unless he has a terrible agent and is an idiot, financially]). So there's that. Whereas, even if Tolkien had put similar efforts into oppressing LGBT folks, he's also long dead and couldn't put any money made off the films to harmful causes.

 

[Pickapok]

It's very straightforward. Tolkien didn't actively campaign against gay rights. Therefore, his personal opinions are irrelevant. Card can be as homophobic as he likes in private. But if he's going to become a spokesman in the fight against equality, then some people are going to lose respect for him, and that may have an impact on his bank balance.

Okay, I see how it is. So Card is being punished for exercising his right to free speech, openly stating and campaigning for his beliefs. Basically, for doing the same thing the multitudes of gay right lobbyists do, just in the opposite direction. God forbid we have political disagreements with each other.

If everybody agreed on every issue, that would be the end of democracy. Why even bother voting at that point?

I also like how you neatly ignored the majority of my post and the main point it was making to focus on the little point on the end.

What does Card being a grade A asshole have anything to do with whether or not Ender's Game is worth your time and money?

 

[Iron Criterion]

For once I wish people could separate the views of a dickish author from the books and, worse still, it appears on a case by case basis. J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout Catholic and therefore opposed to homosexuality. You don't see people boycotting Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit to keep money from going to his family. What makes Card so different and special?

It's very straightforward. Tolkien didn't actively campaign against gay rights. Therefore, his personal opinions are irrelevant. Card can be as homophobic as he likes in private. But if he's going to become a spokesman in the fight against equality, then some people are going to lose respect for him, and that may have an impact on his bank balance.

Thank you sir, for the most level headed comment on this thread.

 

[Flatfrog]

Okay, I see how it is. So Card is being punished for exercising his right to free speech, openly stating and campaigning for his beliefs. Basically, for doing the same thing the multitudes of gay right lobbyists do, just in the opposite direction.

Yes, that's right. He chose to piss off a lot of people with money to spend, and they chose not to spend it on his products. I fail to see the problem with that.

What does Card being a grade A asshole have anything to do with whether or not Ender's Game is worth your time and money?

Because I don't want any more of my money to be spent on promoting anti-gay hatred. I've bought a lot of his books in the past and now I know where that money's gone I'm sad about it.

Of course, the movie looks like a bag of shit too, but that's a different matter.

 

[Zombie_Moogle]

THIS! People sit on their high and mighty horses seeking to destroy others for their political/social/religious opinions when it is they who are seeking to destroy free speech with boycotts. They make people afraid to dissent or speak their mind because it is politically incorrect. In the past I fell for the same traps until I realized that my boycotts were simply a tool of political correctness and speech policing. His opinion is VALID. We disagree with his opinion but we don't want to make other people afraid to have the same opinion and voice it.

The freedom of speech that Card has to express his opinion publicly also applies to those that disagree with his opinion. Last time I checked, they also have the right to not buy a ticket for Ender's Game & publicly state that they are not going to

If you say something that pisses off enough people that the exodus affects you financially, their decision to walk away didn't "destroy" you, your ill-advised statements did. That's how freedom works. You can't deliberately set your couch on fire & expect to be taken seriously when you're indignant about having nowhere to sit