Endless Space: Anyone else been playing it?

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DustyDrB

Made of ticky tacky
Jan 19, 2010
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First of all, Endless Space is a 4X strategy game (same genre as the Civilization series, if you're drawing a blank on that genre):

Haven't seen much talk around here about the game. So has anyone been playing it?

I picked this up last week and have been tinkering. There's a definite learning curve, as I've been trying to figure out the best route is as far as research goes. I also have this nasty habit if getting into multi-front wars which put a massive drain on my resources and tend to leave my empire stagnating. But I've been improving as I understand better the different elements of the game.

So what do you like about the game? Or dislike? Any great successes? And, most of all, do you hate the Cravers as much as I do?
 

Jandau

Smug Platypus
Dec 19, 2008
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It's a nice game. Well designed interface, real pretty overall, some nice mechanics. Lacks depth compared to, say, Galactic Civilizations 2, but works fine as a "4X lite". I did a few playthroughs and there's just not enough variety to keep me playing (again, compared to GalCiv2). But it's well worth the money.

What I liked was how you needed to strike a balancing act between settling more systems and settling planets in systems you already own. Since most improvements were on a system level it is more efficient to settle three planets in one system than one planet in three systems - improvements will affect all three planets in the same system, they only need to be built once and the total upkeep is lower. On the other hand, you still need to make a good land grab early on or all the good systems will be taken and you'll end up screwed in the long run.

What I hated was how AI handles combat and wars in general. To put it simply, the AI is batshit retarded. To compensate for this, it gets insane bonuses to production. The player needs to strike a balance between developing his systems and building a fleet. The AI doesn't. It will have almost maxed out systems AND a fleet so massive it makes anything you can field look trivial (at least in size). While you'll be fielding a few dozen ships at most, the enemy fleets will consist of HUNDREDS of vessels which will swarm all over you as soon as war is declared.

In the end, all wars play out identically - either you are overrun by the sheer numbers or your military tech outstrips the enemy so badly that you'll park an unbeatable fleet on a chokepoint system and wait 20ish turns while they grind themselves down against your single fleet. Needless to say, this is tedious and detracts greatly from the game.

As for what strats work, there's a few things:

Dust is everything. Having a high dust income lets you drop taxes which in turn boosts production. The extra dust can be used to purchase production as well, letting you deploy fleets rapidly and kickstart new systems.

As soon as possible get a Hero with the Administrator trait line (boosts food and production) and level him up. Get one level of Labor, followed by Public Works - this gives a big flat boost to production. It allows you to jumpstart production early on and get new systems up to speed rapidly.

First priority in research should be getting the better versions of all the planetary upgrades. The starter upgrades are kinda crap, while the better ones get extra bonuses if they are on the correct planet type. Grab Arid colonization as well, since Arid planets produce tons of Dust. After that, go for a few low level weapon techs. Namely, a level or two of armor and some weapon (I prefer beams). This is to let you get some basic ships going to defend against pirates (they only use Mass Drivers, hence the armor research).

After that, I mainly focus on expansion (bottom tech tree), and dip into the other three when the techs become cheap enough. You'll see what you need and when you need it. As mentioned earlier, the only way to win wars is to be technologically superior and build unbeatable fleets. In combat there is one tactic that's better than pretty much everything else - Nano-Repair Bots. Pick whatever on the first turn and just spam the Bots every other turn. This lets you avoid losing by attrition (if any of your ships are damaged, use it on the first turn as well).

That's about it. It's a cool game with some nice mechanics and good design that suffers from a shit AI and the measures that were taken by the devs to compensate for that...
 

DustyDrB

Made of ticky tacky
Jan 19, 2010
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Jandau said:
What I hated was how AI handles combat and wars in general. To put it simply, the AI is batshit retarded. To compensate for this, it gets insane bonuses to production. The player needs to strike a balance between developing his systems and building a fleet. The AI doesn't. It will have almost maxed out systems AND a fleet so massive it makes anything you can field look trivial (at least in size). While you'll be fielding a few dozen ships at most, the enemy fleets will consist of HUNDREDS of vessels which will swarm all over you as soon as war is declared.
This is a problem I can agree with. In the past three games, The Cravers just have overwhelmed me completely by sheer numbers. I had the far superior technology and my fleet (entire fleet, not just the single fleets) was pretty large itself (I had three systems pretty much dedicated to ship-building. Some of them could crank out a ship per turn). I was winning battles in which I was outnumbered 2:1 due to my tech, but it was like cutting the head off a Hydra. It's always the Cravers, though. I haven't played them yet, so I'm not sure if they get some sort of fast ship-building bonus. Seems likely, though. Other factions (Amoeba, Sophons, etc) declared war, but I'd quickly drive them off and even take a few of their systems in the process.

I do kind of like the card-based battle system, though. I just wish there were more options with it from the start.

One great thing about this game is that they are still very much working on it and take criticism from the community to make improvements. There are some cool mods being worked on for it too.
 

Jandau

Smug Platypus
Dec 19, 2008
5,030
0
0
DustyDrB said:
Jandau said:
What I hated was how AI handles combat and wars in general. To put it simply, the AI is batshit retarded. To compensate for this, it gets insane bonuses to production. The player needs to strike a balance between developing his systems and building a fleet. The AI doesn't. It will have almost maxed out systems AND a fleet so massive it makes anything you can field look trivial (at least in size). While you'll be fielding a few dozen ships at most, the enemy fleets will consist of HUNDREDS of vessels which will swarm all over you as soon as war is declared.
This is a problem I can agree with. In the past three games, The Cravers just have overwhelmed me completely by sheer numbers. I had the far superior technology and my fleet (entire fleet, not just the single fleets) was pretty large itself (I had three systems pretty much dedicated to ship-building. Some of them could crank out a ship per turn). I was winning battles in which I was outnumbered 2:1 due to my tech, but it was like cutting the head off a Hydra. It's always the Cravers, though. I haven't played them yet, so I'm not sure if they get some sort of fast ship-building bonus. Seems likely, though. Other factions (Amoeba, Sophons, etc) declared war, but I'd quickly drive them off and even take a few of their systems in the process.

I do kind of like the card-based battle system, though. I just wish there were more options with it from the start.

One great thing about this game is that they are still very much working on it and take criticism from the community to make improvements. There are some cool mods being worked on for it too.
See, that's the thing - if you are losing ships then you lose the war by default. There's no way to win if attrition is a factor since all enemies have hundreds of ships.

The only way is to make a stack of the best ships you have. Don't forget to raise the command point cap, this lets you make that one fleet bigger. Get an admiral for them and put them in a chokepoint system (wormhole or some such). Then spam Nanorepair bots in every fight. You'll either slaughter the enemy without taking any losses (in which case you don't need a massive shipbuilding operation) or your best fleet won't be enough in which case you can't win since you can't outproduce the enemy.

In general, the way the game favors elite superfleets is kinda annoying, even if it is the only way to win against the AI...
 

Slycne

Tank Ninja
Feb 19, 2006
3,422
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Jandau said:
A pack of destroyers loaded to the gills with missiles can bust apart super fleets. Granted you'll loose them all, but they can be pumped out cheaply. The reason this works is because missiles are all launched at the beginning of the phase and do their best damage at long range.

I actually think the AIs true advantage isn't production per say, it's the ability to quickly shift into building ships that counter yours. Often the very next fleet will have the proper defenses to whatever weapons they just faced.

That said, I enjoy Endless Space a lot for what it is. It might not be quite as deep and varied as other 4X games, but it's great to load up while catching up on some TV or something. And the fact that is has a UI that doesn't make it needlessly obtuse is a godsend.