England Jails Homophobes

[gyroscopeboy]

who says im joking? im just saying its ironic that it probably will happen.


and besides, its the premise of every prison comedy film EVER so lighten the fuck up.

 

[ElPatron]

ITT: We think it's okay to insult people for being religious bigots, but they can't insult gay people.

ITT part 2: It's okay to ask for death penalty for pedophiles because our culture disapproves them. Muslims don't approve homosexuality and are called narrow-minded for it, probably in the future pedophilia will be legal and they will call us bigots for executing pedos BUT IT'S FINE TO ASK CAPITAL PUNISHMENT FOR THEM!

In a free country, do you think Hitler should have been able to express his opinions knowing what they lead to?

Yes. If it was indeed a free country.

Also, I hate social conventions. The fact that anyone thinks it's "okay" for society to tell you what you can or can't do drives me nuts.

Didn't "society" dictate it was okay to enslave black people?

There's a strong difference between "Being Gay should be illegal" and "GAY PEOPLE SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH [small]because being gay should be illegal[/small]"

No there isn't.

Both result in punishment. If you ask for capital punishment, there is death.

There is a difference between "LETS KILL AN BURN ALL GAY PEOPLE" and "LET'S MAKE HOMSEXUALITY ILLEGAL AND KILL THEM!" because in one you are implying that everyone should carry it out by their own hands and not with the approval with the state.

 

[ElPatron]

And that's where you're wrong. Completely wrong. A persons freedom to exist trumps another's freedom to kill people they disagree with.

Where did I say that Hitler should be allowed to kill anyone?

I answered your question, and you added unforeseen consequences. Remember that the Nazi Party was famous for using euphemisms to describe what they were doing. Hitler did not call a "open season" on Jews, homosexuals or invalid people. Hitler used Jews as a scapegoat for the economical situation and considered sub-human. The majority of the German public was not aware of the mass murders.

We can't predict the future. There are ALWAYS unforeseen consequences.

I simply said that Hitler should be allowed to say "I don't like Jews, they are subhuman and we should kill them".

It's the same thing that allows me to say "Hitler and Stalin were two dickheads and we should assassinate anyone who tries to reinstate their views". Doesn't mean that I would be elected by the general public and start killing Neo-Nazis and Commies legally.

Insult =/= Call for execution of.

Judging from the amount of posts that support that being a religious bigot is a criminal offense, I don't see how it is any different from trying to force Muslim culture on another country.

Just one request before I go: would you please, please tell me that you don't think killing all gay people is a good idea? Please? It's necessary for my peace of mind.

Is killing homosexuals a good idea?

Is making a girl wear a bikini on the streets of a Muslim country a good idea?

Hint: it's not.

 

[ElPatron]

Mate, you just proved my point in your post.

The minute your government infringes on another persons right to life you're no longer in a free country.

I did not.

Hitler secretly ordered to kill Jews. These three dudes called for a change on the UK's culture and introduce what their culture has to offer.

What does that have to do with freedom of speech? Very little. Hitler was smart enough to lie, not tell the truth.

Yet freedom of speech allowed him to write Mein Kampf. And I don't see what is wrong with that.

Not being a religious bigot.

Read some posts in here.

Or any other thread where religion is involved.

Personally, I am an Atheist. But it bothers me that our culture allows us to insult and call for the incarceration of people who are following their beliefs.

Insults protected by: freedom of speech.

 

[ElPatron]

Pro tip. Inciting hatred and calling for prejudicial slaughter is doing just that.

Inciting hatred and calling for the incarceration of people for their interpretation of a religion is doing just that.

Gay people can't help they were born that way, Muslims can't chose what religion their family should bash into their skull.

I am aware that there are a lot of double standards, and I admit that I agree with one or two of them.

Watch some clips from Hamas TV or whatever that crap is called. Seriously. Their purpose is to incite hatred against Jews, teach children that if the time comes, they should carry out violent acts against Israel. I remember one in which there were kids in Olive Drab BDUs, balaclavas with those green bandannas, fake AK47s etc performing combat drills and crawling while a anti/Israel song was played.

If Israel captured the people who wrote that propaganda and sentenced them to jail, there would be a lot of buzz about freedom of speech, and how Israel is oppressing Muslims, etc.

TL;DR - we are biased and we will support freedom of speech, even if it calls for the death of every Jew "from the river to the sea" (i.e. the whole of Israel).

However, one thing about this article is positive. I thought that the modern UK was all about celebrating multiculturalism, giving Muslims a chance "because they come from other cultures" and other "Positive Racism" instances.

Guess I was wrong.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yes, but they're not saying that private citizens should go out and hang them, they're saying the government should change it's policies and go out and hang us.

For obvious reasons I'm not a fan of this point of view, but it should be their right in a free society to petition for a change in the law.

Regardless, I'm having trouble not seeing this as hate speech. The point of the matter being that I could see a clear divide between "don't let gays marry!" and "hang the fags!"

Regardless of the context, the latter is very hard to see as anything but hate speech. The former, while personally distasteful, doesn't quite hit the same notes.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

It's funny that you are going on about how gay people should just not be offended by the people calling for their death, while you are complaining about people using dark humour.

Woah boy have you missed the point.

"I don't like your jokes" =/= "I'm going to make a law so you don't offend me."

Go ahead, tell them how stupid they are for wanting gay people executed. But don't force them to shut up. That's just pathetic.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Someone says gay people should be executed - throw them in jail!

Someone makes a joke about men being raped - laugh.

lighten the fuck up.

Irony, perhaps?

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

man they really do look like terrorist don't they?

What on Earth does a terrorist look like exactly?

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

man they really do look like terrorist don't they?

What on Earth does a terrorist look like exactly?

like them of course...

So there's no female terrorists?

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

man they really do look like terrorist don't they?

What on Earth does a terrorist look like exactly?

like them of course...

So there's no female terrorists?

there can't be... unless maybe they glued on the beard...

Only one of those men has any sort of real beard.

Every post you make seems vaguer and less rational than the last. Not in a joking way, but in an... odd way.

 

[Jegsimmons]

ok the homophobes are asshole for being bigots and for calling for the death of homosexuals.

the British justice system is an asshole for violating human rights. free speech is free speech even if its hate speech.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

SNIPThen it's a good thing you live in the U.K. and not the U.S.A.

That kind of rhymes.

It is. Isnt it? I just get tired of the fallacious arguement that id sit back and watch all opposing views be arrested. Not so. Only calls murder. Mass murder. Of innocent men women and children. I think thats understandable enough.

Legally executions aren't murder.

So Hitler wasnt a murderer? Nor was Stalin. Or Kim Jong Ill. These things may be llegal where they happened and therefor not "murder". But they are not right. And it sure as hell counts as murder in the eyes of every damn person on the planet other than these idiots. You cant tell me that if the police in a country shoot a small child between the eyes in cold blood that isnt mutder. I dont believe you think that. What these people are calling for is illegal. Execution of innocent people IS murder.

I wont lie, you argue well and i find it easy to see how all speech should be llegal. Anyone should be able to SAY whatever. However the phrasing of the pamlett is rather threatening. As is the idea you can "call for an execution" in such a public way. It reeks of trying to rile up mob mentality. Death threats are not llegal. Are they in America? Personal death threats? Can i say "im going to fucking shoot a policeman in the face" in public? Is that llegal? Total free speech has limits.

 

[Biosophilogical]

Has anyone noticed that not one of them doesn't look scary and insane? I mean seriously, I have yet to see an extremist or evangelical nutter[footnote]There being a difference between a regular evangelist who just knocks on your door, and the nutter who comes up to you on the street and won't leave you alone while you try and look for the nearest escape route because you are afraid you are about to be mugged/shot/raped/murdered/choked with your own intestines/etc[/footnote] who doesn't make me feel like screaming "Fire[footnote]I think 'Fire' might be better than 'Rape' or 'Help, I'm being attacked' simply because the latter are likely to incite diffusion of responsibility, while the former is likely to get people paying attention because it involves them not burning to death[/footnote]!" just so that there are other people looking in my general direction (i.e. witnesses).

 

[Versuvius]

10 pages in and people seem to think defending one innocent group from 3-4 fucking idiots with nothing between their ears is a bad thing. Incidentally no ones infringing anything save the arrested. It is illegal to do what they did, it has been illegal for a long time. Live by the laws of the country you live in, or get out. Couples arrested in Whateverthefuckistan for being drunk in public when it is illegal in the country, i would blame the couple for doing something illegal in that country. If you dont like their laws, don't go there. Same goes for people who want to live here. Follow the laws like 99.9% of the population and stop mucking about. If someone starts up a strawman of "what about people who smoke pot"? well they do get arrested but that isn't calling for the death of some guy youve never met based on your own hangups. Srsly Gais. Stop being fucking stupid 12 year olds and learn how freedom of speech works (Note it doesn't mean you can say what you like to whoever you like, it never has, never will). Freedom of responsiblity, remeber that.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Can i say "im going to fucking shoot a policeman in the face" in public? Is that llegal?

It is entirely legal to say that in the U.S. and in Australia, at least (I live in the latter).

Anywho, I think we've reached that point where our deep, personal beliefs are all that's left and the rest has been argued down to a fine point; all that's left is a difference of opinion and that's not going to change.

I'll leave it with something we will both agree with: wouldn't be nice if we lived in a world where no one hated anyone? Not through some rigid dictatorship, or through brainwashing and having political correctness drilled through our heads. But a world where everyone just let each other live their life in peace. I don't like what modern day Christianity has become, but Jesus really did hit the nail on the head--"Let he without sin cast the first stone."

Black, white, Asian, Middle Eastern or everything and anything in between; gay, straight, neither or a little of both at times; Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Atheist or Agnostic, learn to appreciate the differences and maybe you'll find something you like--courage against persecution, ideology, an interesting and alien culture to explore. If you can't do that, live and let live. Let them do their thing and so long as they aren't hurting anyone, it really doesn't matter.

 

[Womplord]

There's this thing called free speech and the UK obviously doesn't have it. They jailed people for what they believe, not for what they did, which I think is a terrible thing.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

There's this thing called free speech and the UK obviously doesn't have it. They jailed people for what they believe, not for what they did, which I think is a terrible thing.

Nah it does apply. Only when you call for genocide or mass murder does it stop applying. I like to think its fairly easy to avoid this one. Youre allowed to say whatever as long as it doesnt involve implying that you want anyone to go about brutal killing or burning of innocent people, especially when phrased in a threatening way and posted through your door. Theres a difference between speech and sending someone a letter through their door that says "I WANT TO BURN YOU". One is speech the other is creepy as fuck and borders harassment.

It is entirely legal to say that in the U.S. and in Australia, at least (I live in the latter).

Anywho, I think we've reached that point where our deep, personal beliefs are all that's left and the rest has been argued down to a fine point; all that's left is a difference of opinion and that's not going to change.

I'll leave it with something we will both agree with: wouldn't be nice if we lived in a world where no one hated anyone? Not through some rigid dictatorship, or through brainwashing and having political correctness drilled through our heads. But a world where everyone just let each other live their life in peace. I don't like what modern day Christianity has become, but Jesus really did hit the nail on the head--"Let he without sin cast the first stone."

Black, white, Asian, Middle Eastern or everything and anything in between; gay, straight, neither or a little of both at times; Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Atheist or Agnostic, learn to appreciate the differences and maybe you'll find something you like--courage against persecution, ideology, an interesting and alien culture to explore. If you can't do that, live and let live. Let them do their thing and so long as they aren't hurting anyone, it really doesn't matter.

If such a world existed id be more than happy to embrace it. Despite being an Atheist Jesus is one of my personal heros. Cant fault a thing the guy said. Carl Sagan put it another way that i also thought was elloquent.

"The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds."

Its difficult to be a real man/woman and put aside your hatreds for the sake of peace, even if you feel beyond all else youre right its always the greater and harder thing to step down and go "this view or goal isnt worth the price of hatred toward my peers". I take that view strongly, if it isnt hurting anyone or threatening their ability to live a happy and complete lifestyle live and let live. Its not a hard trend to see that all advanced societies have at some level integrated and accepted others regardless of creed or origin. While those that shun and stick to themselves lack the true power of collaberation. The pattern is obvious and the faster we see it the further we will go.

 

[Don Savik]

Pro tip. Inciting hatred and calling for prejudicial slaughter is doing just that.

Inciting hatred and calling for the incarceration of people for their interpretation of a religion is doing just that.

Gay people can't help they were born that way, Muslims can't chose what religion their family should bash into their skull.

I am aware that there are a lot of double standards, and I admit that I agree with one or two of them.

Watch some clips from Hamas TV or whatever that crap is called. Seriously. Their purpose is to incite hatred against Jews, teach children that if the time comes, they should carry out violent acts against Israel. I remember one in which there were kids in Olive Drab BDUs, balaclavas with those green bandannas, fake AK47s etc performing combat drills and crawling while a anti/Israel song was played.

If Israel captured the people who wrote that propaganda and sentenced them to jail, there would be a lot of buzz about freedom of speech, and how Israel is oppressing Muslims, etc.

TL;DR - we are biased and we will support freedom of speech, even if it calls for the death of every Jew "from the river to the sea" (i.e. the whole of Israel).

However, one thing about this article is positive. I thought that the modern UK was all about celebrating multiculturalism, giving Muslims a chance "because they come from other cultures" and other "Positive Racism" instances.

Guess I was wrong.

When the group demands another group of citizens dead, I think thats when they lose their chance. But hey, thats just me looking out for people.

You have the right to believe whatever the hell you want and to say what you want, but that doesn't make you immune to the consequences of your bullshit. It also doesn't make your logic and cultural ways immune to question and skepticism.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Man I'd hate to be the judge who had to pass sentence on this clusterfuck:

On the one hand, you have three unhinged idiots who have at best an agenda to push or at worst are in the beginnings of a criminal conspiracy and we're lucky their so fucking stupid that they brought attention to themselves in this way.

On the other, if you value freedom of speech and I mean value it as in inalienable, unassailable right, then you need to back it up by allowing people you dispise to say their piece....if only to allow you time to aim that tomato/rock/fart bomb you have in your hand.


Ultimately I think the judge has ruled in this case that infringing the rights of free speech of these three men by giving them jail time is the lesser evil than allowing them to continue in their quest and verbally assault large portions of the gay community directly and by proxy those that either a) don't give a fuck each way or b) like minded fellows who save this shit for the pool room.


One another note, I think someone in this thread called what they were doing a 'cultural offering' or something. No, calling for the execution of otherwise innocent people isn't a cultural offering, its a fucking insult whether those who suggest it come from Somalia or Swansea. Also, its legal to say that murderers, convicted child molestors or rapists (to name the big three) should be executed, because as unsophisticated as it sounds, you're advocating sentencing policy for people convicted of a criminal offence. For the record, if it was proved someone raped another person or a child, beyond a shadow of a doubt then it would be my preference that they be put to the sword, literally if possible. Murderers too if you like, because all three crimes are vicious assaults on human dignity and safety....who you prefer to fuck in your own home on your own time is not within the same sphere by a long shot.