English Class System

[Dieter Meyer]

Hello there citizen of the UK! (and you other guys)

I was given the task to write a text about the English class system. Now, I've done some reading on the subject and found quite abit of information, however, one of the things I keep reading is that I will never be fully able to understand the English class system, as it takes several generations of Englishmen to be able to understand!

So, I was wondering if any of the UKers here would mind teaching me a thing or two about how the class system is, and how it affects you, your view on it and if you belong to the upper class, middle class, or working class.

Any input is much appreciated

/Meyer

 

[Palademon]

You could look up Marxism if you want a very cynical, yet not untrue, reading of not specifically english class systems.

 

[thylasos]

Please note I'm only talking about class in England here, and not expressing any particular sentiment, just my reflections from reading on the subject and personal experience.

It depends on an enormous variety of factors what class you're conisdered to be, it's not simply an economic marker. You can have relatively cash-poor upper-class people driving about in a battered old Morris Traveller, but the car's an indicator, and so will their speech, what sort of furniture they own, the words they use for certain items thereof (e.g. sofa/couch/settee), attitudes to various things. Family history. Where they go on holiday, even if they don't spend a great deal on it. The same is true for the other end of the class spectrum.

This isn't how class is discussed in political circles, though, and more and more people choose to identify as middle-class nowadays, in spite of the fact they would be defined as working-class a generation ago, which partially has its roots in the destruction of British industry under Thatcher and preceding governments.

This obviously isn't hard and fast, as people can identify as a different class than the one they're perceived as, and it oughtn't mean a great deal, but I'd highly recommend a book called "Watching the English" by Kate Fox. Social climbers climb for a reason, and that's prestige and the inbuilt prejudice towards the lower classes from the top, and the upper classes from the bottom, and both ways from the middle classes.

The middle class person discussed in newspapers and such is a far cry from the median earner in this country; there's a disconnect between self-identification and external identification, and a number of terms have been hijacked, reclaimed, or fallen out of use entirely as times, and economic and political climates have changed.

There are no clear lines any more, but there are darker and lighter shades of grey.

And now my personal self-identification...

I see myself as middle-class, though I'm conflicted in that description, coming from a fairly rubbish area, but later attending a Grammar school, and not having the Estuary accent, attending university, but also having held a number of crap jobs to make ends meet(cleaning toilets, for example). I self-conciously shy away from ITV-style entertainment, and am a fairly BBC 4 bloke, really. But that might just be me being dull.

I'm sticking with me being middle-class.

 

[Simonccx]

Financially its indicated by the whole skilled, unskilled job set. It doesnt really exist here anymore however historically it was based around hereditary wealth, the rich aristocrats the merchant middle class, and the working men and women who worked on the land or in mills. Because of the fact that it spanned generations each group was isolated culturally, a man who was from a lower classs but came into wealth would still not be accepted, he would be "new money" and would not have the breeding or cultural standards of his peers who could even be poorer then him, however a few generationbs later it wouldnt make a difference as his grandchildren would be intergrated. It was rare for people to slip down a class as the rich looked after one another, a common aspect of the upper classes is that their breeding and title meant their word was good, thus a man could safely bet on the stock market using just his word for credit, his position would often secure him a safe bet and his fortune could be recovered, that or the military or navy held officer ranks for gentlemen.

The class system effectively collapsed as the middle class swelled and education became more widespread, the navy for example had a great tradition or meritocracy so often poorer individuals could move up the ranks based on ability, not class. There was also the British "lead by example" appraoch which led to a great many officers dying in world war 1 and 2, eventually leading to a lot of newer families rising.

Much like america we still have dynastic families, but they do not enjoy any special privaledge

 

[Blitzwarp]

Ruling Class/Upper Class: Rich people with power, basically. Specifically, royalty and all it entitles, such as Dukes, Duchesses, Lords, Ladies, etc. Not typically the Prime Minister, although our current Prime Minister would be described as upper class because his father is the richest man in London. There is normally some sort of social stigma about 'proper' upper classmen; the nouveau riche (such as lottery winners, etc.) are normally widely despised by fellow posh people for not having had their money for generations (IE, not inheriting it from daddy), whilst opinion is divided over the 'city types' (men who make money on the stock exchange). Normally educated in a Public (that's private for the rest of the world) School.

Upper-Middle Class: Wedged between the ruling class and the middle class. Typically earns a very high salary and may even have Friends in High Places. (Consultants, MPs, some private GPs, nouveau riche.) Probably has a Cambridge or Oxford education, although some also hold degrees from 'lesser' institutions like Warwick.

Middle Class: Majority of the British public. Semi-detached house, car on the driveway, decent television and DVD collection, video games console. Will typically work a white collar/clerical job in a variety of businesses, from being a secretary in a car show room to a manager for a major British country. Can move into the Upper-Middle class if enough money is gained. Typically educated in a State school, may or may not have children at university or degrees of their own.

Lower/Working Class:
Stereotypically fall into two categories.
(1) The Dole Queue: men and women who are unemployed and subsist on government hand-outs; usually the type the Daily Mail claims is ruining England, despite being a small section of the population. May have a council flat or house, and normally lives in a shitty inner-city area.
(2) Men and women who have a bad education (normally to GCSE standard, but some not even that far) and perform menial jobs, such as working behind the bar at McDonalds (I'm talking about non-students) or cleaning the toilets at posh restaurants. A good deal of this class is made up by immigrants who come to the UK seeking a better life and end up being exploited by rich capitalists into working for slightly-less-than minimum wage.

Remember that the UK class system has changed a lot in the past century. Nowadays we merely use these terms as labels, and I suspect the younger generation shan't know them at all.

In Victorian times right up until around 1965, a member of the upper-class was generally considered by all classes to be superior to all other classes, and they could get away with a hell of a lot - from not paying bills to murder itself. It was not seemly for an upper-class person to marry anybody from an inferior class, and woe betide the poor person who gets it into their head that they could strike up a conversation with an upper-classman or woman. The working class, in turn, was expected to oblige the upper-class in any way demanded of them. Nowadays if the upper-class tried this London would probably look very much like Egypt does right now (although of course rich people still get away with whatever they want if they have a good lawyer ;-)).

I hope that's not too nonsensical for you.

 

[Purple Dragon]

The class system has nothing to do with money.
Upper Class: Related to someone who has a title. Have places in the countryside which they will go to in prefernce of somewhere hotter no matter how rich. Showing off money is viewed as vulgar. Attend public (private to everyone not English) schools, generally trditional ones e.g. Eton, Westminster, St.Pauls (though St.Pauls is increasingly the domain of the middle class and Russian oligarchs) and later Oxbridge (Oxford or Cambridge) but not too worried about education. May join the army as an officer.
Middle Class: White collar jobs, gone to a good school often public sometimes, gramaar, religious or very good state if a guilty liberal, then a good university such as Oxbridge, Bristol, Imperial College, etc.. Heavy emphasis on education. Wealth can range from fantastically rich banker to GP or journalist. Again don't flash money.
Lower Middle Class: Originally working class but have become richer, sometimes richer than the middle middle class. Flaunt cash on expensive holidays, sports cars and land rovers, etc
Educated in the state system.
Working Class: The masses, the great unwashed, the hoipalois. Work either on menial jobs e.g. cleaner or in manufacturing sector or unemployed cos the manufacturing sector has died. Have no money to flash, often very big on sport.
by the way this is from a very middle class perspective

 

[Zykon TheLich]

While it still exists to an extent it's really more of a label now than an actual 'system'. You may come from a working class or middle class background or whatever but you aren't locked into it, just because you were born to "working class" parents doesn't mean you're going to stay "working class".
Class does have certain social connotations and sterotypes but really it's not much more than an economic indicator otherwise.
Working class = low income
Middle class = comfortably well off
Upper class = rich
There are exceptions to these of course, someone who was born working class but who's made loads of money may still consider themselves working class and may take a generation or 2 to start seeming like the sterotypical rich type.

Really, it's no different from just being low income, middle income, high income in any other western nation.

I'm from a middle class background but have also got a lot of more working class traits.

 

[Dieter Meyer]

I hope that's not too nonsensical for you.

It's not! very good, sir!

Its a bad thing.

Care to elaborate? :3
___________________
Thanks to everyone who has replied

Just a question: If you call private schools public schools... What are your public schools called?

 

[Private Custard]

Basically, what it means is that, due to the relatively small number of upper-middle classes compared to us working class peasants, they only breed amongst themselves and are all pretty much related distantly in some way.

It's why, round where I live, I can spot a girl that goes to the local private school from a mile off.....they all look the fucking same.

And it's also why a large percentage of fully-fledged upper classes are in fact, totally insane. Inbreeding causes havok!

 

[Private Custard]

Just a question: If you call private schools public schools... What are your public schools called?

Comprehensive schools.

 

[Blitzwarp]

Just a question: If you call private schools public schools... What are your public schools called?

Either State Schools or Comprehensives.

 

[MetaKnight19]

To be honest I can't really contribute more than everyone has, but hopefully this short video may shed a bit more light onto the subject, even if it is a very dim light. John Prescott, former Labour MP made a documentary about the English class system not too long ago. I watched most of it, and for the most part it was just him eating pies and chips whilst talking to people, however it also had some points about how people in England think about what class they put themselves in.